Old McCain Losing It on Illegals

[SoulSearcher]

However, make me dictator for a day just on this issue, and here's what we do:

1. All corporations which encouraged illegals to come here will have 50% of their stock seized, to be taken primarily from the major stockholders, on a sliding scale.

2. All companies which knowingly employed illegals once they were here, but did not encourage them, will have 1/4 of their stock seized, as per above.

3. All illegals currently in the country will be given two options:
A. a. learn English,
b. study and learn the Declaration of Independence, and the Constitution, with emphasis on the Bill of Rights,
c. pay $5,000 + $1,000/yr. or 10% of annual income while here (whichever is greater); no-interest, 25-year loans will be offered, OR
B. punishment at hard labor, for life or until A is chosen.

4. Revenues from 2 above will be divided between providing materials to any locals who wish to volunteer their time and labor to build a border fence and providing basic resources to legal immigrants who are still struggling

5. All unused slots for any nationality will be immediately made available for 'established' illegals, retroactive to 1976 (in honor of the BiCentennial), bye year of arrival

6. Immigration law will be modified to allow legal residency to any immigrant able to pay the U.S. government the going rate for a coyote to get someone here or $5000, whichever is lesser.

7. Immigration law will be modified to provide a 50% increase in immigration per year, with the increase assigned to those who can show sustained economic hardship in their home countries.



At least, that's the way I feel about it right now.

Wow, I can only imagine what you'd feel about gays, if all else about you equal, except you were straight. I hope your generation passes onto the silent side soon enough. I have my own proposition, I welcome all Mexicans, legal or illegal to come over, come back home to California, New Mexico, Arizona and Texas! Take back what was taken from you! Let's make the old guard cringe, and hopefully, overtime they'll all fall with chronic constipation due to exerted hatred and xenophobia.

 

[Kulindahr]

Wow, I can only imagine what you'd feel about gays, if all else about you equal, except you were straight. I hope your generation passes onto the silent side soon enough. I have my own proposition, I welcome all Mexicans, legal or illegal to come over, come back home to California, New Mexico, Arizona and Texas! Take back what was taken from you! Let's make the old guard cringe, and hopefully, overtime they'll all fall with chronic constipation due to exerted hatred and xenophobia.

What, you'd object to me punishing the hell out of people who helped other people break the law?


BTW, that's a mighty big lie you're going with there: none of those people coming over illegally was ever here before, nor were their ancestors, so there's no "taking back" involved.

If I were straight, I'd expect gays to obey the law, too, and if they hadn't, I'd offer them options for not having to be stuck in prison or thrown back where they came from, and punish the hell of of those who encouraged them to break the law.

 

[evanrick]

the electorate is just too stupid and spoon fed. we get what we deserve and im very ashamed at how sheepish people are.

 

[Kulindahr]

A state without borders is no longer a state, and a law broken is no longer a law.

If it were up to me, the penalties for border-crossing scofflaws would be severe, as would be the penalties for the employers who're aiding and abetting.

True, true, and definitely.

People who cross borders illegally ought to be dealt with the way I would deal with an intruder in my house: halted at gun point (and shot in case of resistance), then held until the authorities can come and hand down punishment.

This is aside from the question of what the law ought to be. I'm going to add to my previous off-the-cuff response this:

8. for those cooperating with the program, Social Security numbers shall be assigned, and benefits due from wages paid shall be credited

9. allow each taxpayer filing federal forms to assign $5 per year to paying the fines for hardship cases, or to donate using an extra payment included with the tax form.

10. for countries with which we have a free trade agreement, immigration quotas shall be doubled, retroactive to the beginning of the agreement


I also want to note that the proposal for retroactive place-filling of unused slots would, according to an article I read some time back when this was argued under Bush, take care of a good one-third of all the illegals here at present.

Beyond that, the whole quote system needs to be addressed; it's more than a little racist in its structure.

 

[CoolBlue71]

Looks like Barack Obama will be carrying Arizona in 2012.

 

[Kulindahr]

Huh.

I came to reply to a message I got from the "new message" notifier that comes with subscribing to a thread, and it isn't here.


Oh, well -- carry on!

 

[grantt]

Looks like Barack Obama will be carrying Arizona in 2012.

The fuck he will. About time one of the states did something about the problem plaguing the nation. This could be model legislation for protecting the people....finally. Obama would not do a damn thing, nor did Bush for that matter. Enough is enough.

 

[swerve]

No, I'm not suggesting anything about ridiculous notions of power structures. The United States has legal procedures for immigrating. No one who is not born a citizen has a right to be there, but if you follow the legal procedures then you can. If you don't follow the legal procedures, then why should you be there?

That is ridiculous to say people were "induced" to break the law just because they were unwilling to make the effort to use legal procedures. Again, no one has a right to citizenship in a foreign country; you have to ask to get in. The states should be no exception.

From a philosophical standpoint I might tend to agree with you...

BUT -- the REALITY is that THEY ARE HERE -- and in HUGE NUMBERS -- and have become a PART of OUR society...

Are you suggesting that we should arrest and prosecute MILLIONS of PEOPLE???

My comments were intended to say that we should go after those that INDUCED them to come -- accept the ones that are here -- and proceed from there...




p.s. I always like reading Kuhlindar's creative approaches -- unfortunately, he isn't KING...

 

[bankside]

From a philosophical standpoint I might tend to agree with you...

BUT -- the REALITY is that THEY ARE HERE -- and in HUGE NUMBERS -- and have become a PART of OUR society...

Are you suggesting that we should arrest and prosecute MILLIONS of PEOPLE???

My comments were intended to say that we should go after those that INDUCED them to come -- accept the ones that are here -- and proceed from there...




p.s. I always like reading Kuhlindar's creative approaches -- unfortunately, he isn't KING...

Yup. Not really prosecute so much as deport.

(From a philosophical standpoint, I am open to the legal principle that if a country abandons a law through lack of enforcement then the law can be deemed to be repealed, which would let at least some people off the hook.)

But ultimately, most illegal aliens know they are in the country illegally, and I don't think you can build a healthy society with people who are that lawless.

Kick them out. Maybe not forever, but at the very least, make them pay a fine or some kind of restitution, and make absolutely sure that they use whatever proper immigration procedure required by the law if they want to try to come back. There are worse kinds of law-breaking, but they must submit to whatever punishment the law holds for them with no crazy amnesties. Pay the debt to society, so to speak, and then try again under whatever immigration regulations are in force. No second chances - after another violation it is a lifetime ban.

 

[chance1]

To think that this dinosaur would have mavericked his way to Prezi dency. Riling on O'Riley's pigfest, when asked about the possibility of racial profiling in Arizona arising out of state laws regarding undocumented immigrants, his answer:



There was one who got into Yale with less than mediocre grades because of daddy, and then we have this maverick with average grades and short arms still yapping around like an old tards that he is. But it also shows how angry the immigration issue makes some people. Its possibly the bad economic times, America has a tradition of scapegoating immigrants and minorities when the economy goes down.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/20/john-mccains-strange-clai_n_544559.html

Wow, I can only imagine what you'd feel about gays, if all else about you equal, except you were straight. I hope your generation passes onto the silent side soon enough. I have my own proposition, I welcome all Mexicans, legal or illegal to come over, come back home to California, New Mexico, Arizona and Texas! Take back what was taken from you! Let's make the old guard cringe, and hopefully, overtime they'll all fall with chronic constipation due to exerted hatred and xenophobia.

not sure which post i object to more - ur references to john mccain's "short arms" or ur cheap shot at Kuli

what were ur grades?

oh never mind ............. im sure ur a genius

as for immigration ................ mccain did the flippity floppity it appears as he wants to save his behind and get re-elected - seems they all do it - guess i wonder which one of his 2 positions he really believes in

very disappointing

but making fun of age and "short arms" or saying to kuli "your generation" is worse as ur not running for re-election

so what is ur excuse for being so difficult?

do tell

 

[bankside]

Another thing, I have to make a point about this "undocumented immigrant" crap which I made fun of earlier in the thread but should probably have a bit of a more in-depth explanation.

Undocumented immigrant:
A person who follows the proper immigration procedures, and is entitled to be in a country, and then loses his visa. Solution: Note loss or theft in police records; reprint visa. Everyone carries on.

Illegal alien:
A person who ignores the proper immigration procedures, and is not entitled to be in a country. Solution: Apply prescribed penalties for breaking the law, deport. Everyone carries on.

The only time it is relevant that an immigrant is "undocumented" is when they were entitled to have the document in the first place.

BTW, good for Arizona. Apparently President Obama is opposed to their new law. If a police officer has some kind of reasonable suspicion that a law has been broken, of course he should enquire further. I don't see how Obama can have a problem with that.

At least in my country, "reasonable suspicion" is justiciable and has to meet certain standards of professional conduct or evidence gets thrown out.

 

[Lostlover]

Another thing, I have to make a point about this "undocumented immigrant" crap which I made fun of earlier in the thread but should probably have a bit of a more in-depth explanation.

Undocumented immigrant:
A person who follows the proper immigration procedures, and is entitled to be in a country, and then loses his visa. Solution: Note loss or theft in police records; reprint visa. Everyone carries on.

Illegal alien:
A person who ignores the proper immigration procedures, and is not entitled to be in a country. Solution: Apply prescribed penalties for breaking the law, deport. Everyone carries on.

The only time it is relevant that an immigrant is "undocumented" is when they were entitled to have the document in the first place.

BTW, good for Arizona. Apparently President Obama is opposed to their new law. If a police officer has some kind of reasonable suspicion that a law has been broken, of course he should enquire further. I don't see how Obama can have a problem with that.

At least in my country, "reasonable suspicion" is justiciable and has to meet certain standards of professional conduct or evidence gets thrown out.

If you saw the types of people that support that law here, you'd know it's a bunch of shit. Dead enders and rednecks are the biggest supporters of the law. Enough said.

 

[bankside]

If you saw the types of people that support that law here, you'd know it's a bunch of shit. Dead enders and rednecks are the biggest supporters of the law. Enough said.

As the saying goes, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

You can't defeat dead-enders and rednecks by ignoring them when they're (accidentally) right. In their turd of a political movement, poking out like a little piece of corn, is this kernel of truth about illegal immigration.

Reasonable people ignoring that kind of good point is how the electorate gets pissed off with reasonable people and end up voting for some jackass like Bush.

 

[Centexfarmer]

If you saw the types of people that support that law here, you'd know it's a bunch of shit. Dead enders and rednecks are the biggest supporters of the law. Enough said.

Yeah, and that should be reason enough to just dismiss it?

In case you haven't noticed the current government of Mexico is in the midst of fighting a war that we would call "domestic terrorism."

The current Federal Policy regarding Immigration, particularly as it applies to those living "South of the Border," is so full of loopholes, and because of the Mexican Consulate Lobby in Washington, and their influence on state and county levels in regard to how their "nationals" are treated here under our laws, the same nationals that entered our country illegally, the same nationals that kills cops, children, are involved in domestic violence, and child molestation, the Mexican Government doesn't even allow their national who are here illegally to be prosecuted under the same laws that each of us are expected to abide by.

Our Federal Government, in order to either placate or reward Mexico for the efforts in the "Drug War," look the other way.

Meanwhile, "On the border" Mexican civilians, and Americans are being murdered in a crossfire between Mexican Drug Cartels, and the Mexican Feds.

Don't believe me? Google Juarez and read the news hits that pop up.

Here's something that the Teabaggers can protest, "more national debt" and this time from a Republican:

Sen. Cornyn seeks money to protect border

Immigration?

At this rate we're about to experience an influx of "illegals" except next time they're going to be considered "refugees" spilling over into this country to get away from the violence that's going on in Mexico, and not just for jobs.

Obama opposes the legislation that was just signed into LAW today by Arizona's Governor.

But keep in mind Arizona is the same state that just past a resolution requiring that presidential candidates provide a copy of their birth certificate in order to allowed on their state ballot.

And here I was afraid that my Republican Governor was making Texas look too much like Mississippi.

Arizona Republican Governor Jan Brewer is making Arizona Republican Senator John McCain, and Texas Republican Governor Rick Perry look like wild eyed liberals.

But LostLover you're right:

Dead enders and rednecks are the biggest supporters of the law. Enough said.

And Soulsearcher you're right too:

I welcome all Mexicans, legal or illegal to come over, come back home to California, New Mexico, Arizona and Texas! Take back what was taken from you! Let's make the old guard cringe, and hopefully, overtime they'll all fall with chronic constipation due to exerted hatred and xenophobia

We don't have a problem with Immigration.

None what so ever!

It's just something that will go away once the old people die, or fall from chronic constipation.

Good analysis of the situation!

Let's kill all of the old people (regardless of party) so that we can put an end to everything that ails our planet, and we can move more quickly into this utopia where we all live with rainbows and unicorns!

My position as a member here doesn't allow me to say what I'm really thinking!

 

[Kulindahr]

Reasonable people ignoring that kind of good point is how the electorate gets pissed off with reasonable people and end up voting for some jackass like Bush.

That's a good point.

Besides, if a whole pile of Democrats said, "You're right!", maybe enough of the yammerheads would go into shock that it could be kinda peaceful for a while.

 

[Centexfarmer]

That's a good point.

Besides, if a whole pile of Democrats said, "You're right!", maybe enough of the yammerheads would go into shock that it could be kinda peaceful for a while.

Or vice versus!

The fact is no one seems to truly be at the helm up in Washington.

First municipal governments in Texas, and Pennsylvania have passed laws attempting to enforce current Federal Laws, and Washington has done nothing except give us speeches about "fairness," and "constitutional law.:

The Arizona State Legislature has now passed into a law, what in effect makes any American Born citizen who even looks "Mexican" into a second class citizen.

BRAVO! Way to legislate!

And this from Republicans!

Who are the Nazi's/Brown Shirts now?

I can't wait to hear what Glenn Beck and Fox News have to say about this!

 

[Lostlover]

Looks like Barack Obama will be carrying Arizona in 2012.

I think so too. Nevada and New Mexico and Colorado went blue the last election. We have a lot of pwt in this state though.

 

[JB3]

I think so too. Nevada and New Mexico and Colorado went blue the last election. We have a lot of pwt in this state though.

This shows how little you know of what people in border states think of the Federal Government's role in preventing illegal immigration.

If Obama fights this, as he seems inclined to do, he will lose Arizona and many other border states in spectacular fashion.

 

[JB3]

Take back what was taken from you! Let's make the old guard cringe, and hopefully, overtime they'll all fall with chronic constipation due to exerted hatred and xenophobia.

"Taken from them"???? Do you really quite honestly believe this shlock? Not a single one of those illegals could lay claim to even one square foot of those border states, let alone 'take them back'.

Mexico is at war with itself. Americans are dying, innocent mexicans are dying, and that war threatens to spill over our border. And you welcome them to cross over?

 

[Sausy]

What is the policy of Mexico regarding illegal immigration into its borders?From what I've heard,it isn't nearly as open and liberal as they and others wish our policy to be.