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OMG, a true horror story in a religious book !!!

It's better to go through Hell now, than in the after-life.

No it isn't no ammount of spiritual pleasure can make up for a life of unhappiness and self deprivation. Nothing can make up for the misery and losses you face by choosing to be miserable. You should make this life into a Heaven. Instead of working for a Heaven that you don't know exists.
 
No, the worst possibility is that God really is evil, and only the most cruel, materialistic and Machiavellian of his followers will be rewarded. The most snide and homophobic Southern Baptists you have ever known will be held in higher esteem than you in the hereafter. People who have driven gay people to suicide will be exalted and praised for all eternity. People who have murdered and persecuted non-Christians rank highest among the Saints. Believe me, the "God really is a tyrannical bastard" scenario is the worst conceivable scenario.

If I knew the only way I could stop having to share a universe with such a churlish and reprehensible creature was by throwing my body on some jagged rocks, I swear that I would do so right now. My keys would be in the ignition to go and find a place to do so ten seconds from now. Part of the reason that I became an atheist, in the first place, was that I made up my mind that, if all atheists are going to Hell, I'll go with them. If all atheists are going to burn, I guess I'll have to burn, too. I could not imagine the kind of disgusting person who would seriously worship a deity that was so egotistical and monstrous. I would renounce any relationship I had with such a person. I could not stomach worshiping a cosmic bastard, and I want no connection with his followers.

The only thing that has ever made me feel tempted to become a part of the Christian faith was when I was taking care of an AIDS patient, for a while, who was suffering from a bad bout of bronchitis. For his sake, I accompanied him to this little desolate, white-washed building on a dirt lot. It was a poor folks' church. They were Pentecostals of the most old-fashioned kind. They wept together. They prayed together. They genuinely cared about the plights of the members of their congregation and their families. The troubles and issues of even the least of them was deeply personal to them. However, their joy also was shared communally. Sometimes, I have wistful thoughts that I could become a part of something like that. That kind of life seems so superior to the estranged, materialistic and disjointed culture we live in.

But there is nothing that has driven me to atheism like the condemnation of all members of other faiths and all atheists and skeptics to eternal Hellfire. The kind of "faith" that inspires is so cold. It is empty. It is desolate, and it is heartless. I consider it to be entirely mercenary, and I regard it as worthless. It is the empty garbage that the Almighty God of White Trash and Vermin deserves to be thrown.

If the evil and tyrannical god of the Jews, Christians and Muslims is found to be true then I would work with fellow disbelievers in the afterlife to overthrow him and kill him.
But that Santa Clause was a secular, ie; an abomination of St. Nicholas, to sell Christmas commercially beginning in the late 1800's.

I find the secular Santa Claus to be a much better person and a more agreeable character then some servant of Yahweh.
 
Lucifer (Satan) tried to overthrow God, and did not succeed, and he and his Legions were cast out of Heaven by St. Michael, and his Legions....since before the beginning of time. What makes you think you will succeed?:-({|=
The idea is not to succeed at anything. The idea is standing on principle and good conscience, regardless of how it might come out for you. It's called "believing in something." If you stand for nothing, you are nothing.

However, I hope that you don't believe that your god is evil or thuggish enough to warrant Mariatenebre's revolution. If you do, then I think that you have some serious soul-searching to do, regarding your faith.
 
Lucifer (Satan) tried to overthrow God, and did not succeed, and he and his Legions were cast out of Heaven by St. Michael, and his Legions....since before the beginning of time. What makes you think you will succeed?:-({|=

I'd be more than happy to be there to watch and I'll be on St. Michael's side, too. (!)..|:gogirl:

Because unlike Satan I have right on my side. Satan rebelled because he wanted to be like god. He really wanted to have god's place. This is why he acts so much like Yahweh by tortureing Yahweh's exiles in Hell. Besides Satan is notoriously dumb. For one as I mentioned before he tortures the people who enter Hell at Yahweh's command when in reality he should be treating the denizens of Hell well and raising an army. However instead he tortures people at the behest of his enemy. If I ruled Hell I would treat all who entered into my realm well, train them in warfare and raise an army. Plus since the majority enter Hell anyway I will have numbers on my side. Maybe as well since Yahweh came from the Canaanite pantheon I will have the Canaanite Gods on my side. Since El Elyon and Asherah are far more powerful then there son Yahweh or his creation Lucifer I think I will be cool. Heck I would even have Lilith on my side since she rebelled against Yahweh as well and even tricked him into revealing his name and giving her power. With Lilith on my side I can't lose.

Also one more thing even if there was no way to win against Yahweh I would still fight against him as he is evil and a tyrant. Christians who side with Yahweh because he is powerful are no different then various cowards in history who sided with dictators merely because they thought they would win never mind the evil things they do. I would fight against all tyrants no matter if I can win or not.

Watch out Mikeylove because if your religion is true then expect me Alexander the Great, Lilith, Hatshepsut, Gengis Khan, Nobunaga Oda, No Hime, Boudicea, Cleopatra, The Trung Sisters, Emperor Julian the Apostate and countless other denizens of the fire who will impale St. Michael on sticks and will disembowl Yahweh and his son and feed them to Hellhounds!
 
God is neither evil or thuggish. I believe that Satan was the one who made the first move, and that seems the ideal plan in place that Mariatenebre may be thinking of. God knows what is going through Maria's mind right now. I am already praying for her, as she is on my prayer list...at least no one can stop me from praying for whoever.

In actuality Yahweh did many thuggish things in his book that I can easily show and document as did his evil son. Also while I can't stop you from praying to Yahweh the war god of the Canaanites. I can atleast take comfort in your prayers being fruitless. Because Yahweh dosen't love fruits.
If I should make this life into a Heaven, then I would be on the widest road to the worst things than the Hell on Earth....I'd say, No Thank you, I'll take the narrowest road covered with Brambles and thorns. God is far more pleased with sacrifices made for Union with him. So, you see, God never promised us a rose garden in this life. I'll take my chances with God.

BTW, Heaven does exist in the Afterlife, and so does Hell, and Purgatory (pssst....Purgatory in the afterlife is only temporary), which will cease to exist at the end of Time, when the Final Judgement takes place. Hell, in the afterlife is eternal, just like Heaven is eternal.

If you made this life into a Heaven then you could live a happy and fulfilled life. However instead you choose to live a miserable life of deprivation even though Psychology says that is unhealthy. You take the narrow road even though you have no proof of where it leads and instead make yourself miserable and deny yourself happiness of which no reward can satiate or take away the misery you endure. You instead choose to deny yourself happiness on what is possibly the only life you know for a afterlife that can never take away the misery or make better the self denial and unhappiness you endured in this life. It is the biggest con game in the world, make yourself miserable in this life and deny yourself happiness here for a world you don't know exists and one that can not make the misery you endured in this life better. You choose to sacrifice your happiness on this world because your cult has indoctrinated you to believe that your own happiness would lead you to destruction and to instead make yourself miseable and deny your happiness for a world you don't know that exists and one that will never take away or make up for the misery, self denial and pain you endured in this life. You deny your own happiness because you have been conditioned to fear your desires and therefore life a miserable life just to make yourself worthy for some mythical Heaven which will not take away the misery and pain nor make better the self denial you face on Earth instead of having your Heaven here. You are brainwashed by this making your Heaven on Earth would only make you happy and fulfilled and yet instead you deny it to be worthy of a mythical Heaven that you don't know exists and will never make up for the pain you feel here. It is the biggest con game in the world, being miserable and servile for a Heaven you don't know exists instead of making your Heaven here on Earth and enjoying yourself now. You are duped.

Next no neither your Heaven, Hell or Purgatory exists. They are human constructs and we can see their invention in history. Further more this again shows your god to be evil as a eternal punishment for a finite crime is always evil.

Also just for a bit of interesting fun. Have you guys played the game Dante's Inferno? Anyways the plot deals with a soldier called Dante who traverses a Hell filled with Pagans, unbaptised babies and basically anyone who Yahweh dislikes all tortured in a Death Camp. Well I made a character who rebelled against Yahweh and wishes to fight and kill him. Plus in my fanfiction in Paradiso she eventually does. She gets to fight many people from Abrahamic legends. She fights Mohammad in Hell, kills Gabriel, Michael and the other angels in Heaven and eventually fights and kills Yahweh. It is basically like God of War except with the Christian god getting axed.

http://mariatenebre.deviantart.com/art/Layla-355698869?q=gallery:mariatenebre&qo=0
If you were correct, then Mariatenebre's revolution would not be warranted, would it?

Read the Bible and see Yahweh's crimes and see just how a revolution would be warranted. If you guys want I could post a list of some of the evil things Yahweh did that if he were alive would be considered war crimes.

Oh and better yet what I would do to Yahweh and Jesus is that I would let Queen Lilith rip them to shreds and drink their blood. Just as she is depicted in the boof or revelations as the Whore of Babylon or the Great Queen who drinks the blood of the false saints.
 
I still await for the contradiction you claimed to find.
As for the insult, yes it was an insult as an answer to your foolish mockery.

..look, QUICK, THERE!!!! Oooops to quick for your clunkity clunk logic...oh well
 
What crap it take an infantile mind to believe this stuff but hey they can waist tehre life on it
 
You got that right!
Well, a linear reading of the Old Testament would make the picture murkier. I am aware that your views are based on Catholic theology as it was taught to you. However, if you were to read the Old Testament, from Genesis 1:1 to Malachi 4:6, there is a lot of content there to absorb.

I really wouldn't even open it without having a stack of notebooks handy. That's right, I said "a stack" of notebooks. You have to keep a lot of information separate. In one notebook, you might have a listing of names in one section, attempts in another section to draw diagrams of family trees, and whatever else you might think of. I would set one entire notebook aside for drawing maps in, based on the descriptions in there of the land and the movements of peoples.

Besides that, you have to take into account that different versions have different wording, and you would have to keep a running account of that. You would have to hunt down the roots of certain words, and I would strongly suggest trying to learn a little bit of Hebrew. You would be pleasantly surprised if you were to start picking up a bit of Hebrew, by the way. It's a very interesting language. It works a lot differently from European languages. Unlike English, for example, in Hebrew, individual letters can have meanings.

In any case, if you were prepared to give the Old Testament a thorough reading, I suspect that you would find it to be at loggerheads with conventional Catholic doctrine. However, the process of really going through it with a fine-toothed comb would be intensive and time-consuming. If you think that you would be better off going with the opinion of someone whom you consider to be a trusted theologian, then that is up to you. I completely understand because I don't think most people have the mindset for intensive study.

However, you can ask that person yourself, and that person would probably corroborate what I am telling you here: it is very difficult to reconcile the Old Testament with conventional Catholic doctrine. It is a time-consuming process to study it with any real seriousness. The only way most Catholics would even bother would be if they were interested in divinity school, but even divinity students tend to drag their feet on the job of getting really in-depth on the subject.

And what you have to understand, here, is that Mariatenebre is basing her(?) interpretation of the Bible on a direct reading of the Old Testament with most likely relatively spare scholarly background. A lot of the background she does have on it I would assume (acknowledging that I may underestimate her) arises from others like her who feel disenfranchised by Christianity, which I am behooved to remind you is largely due to the failings of your own religious leaders. If you actually did believe in and worship the god she thinks you believe in and worship, which you and I realize you don't, then she would be justified in thinking you were crazy.
 
oh watch out, she's in a Betty Davis mood
Bette+Davis1.jpg
 
You have to read, study and pray the Old Testament in the genre that it was written in those days in order to get a better understanding of what is being said.
Well, let me give you an example of how I go about studying these old documents. Take this bit from the Book of Numbers:

1 The Lord said to Moses and Aaron: 2 “This is a requirement of the law that the Lord has commanded: Tell the Israelites to bring you a red heifer without defect or blemish and that has never been under a yoke. 3 Give it to Eleazar the priest; it is to be taken outside the camp and slaughtered in his presence. 4 Then Eleazar the priest is to take some of its blood on his finger and sprinkle it seven times toward the front of the tent of meeting. 5 While he watches, the heifer is to be burned—its hide, flesh, blood and intestines. 6 The priest is to take some cedar wood, hyssop and scarlet wool and throw them onto the burning heifer. 7 After that, the priest must wash his clothes and bathe himself with water. He may then come into the camp, but he will be ceremonially unclean till evening. 8 The man who burns it must also wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he too will be unclean till evening.

Now, the unlettered atheist would casually hold these passages up for ridicule, pointing to them as an example of the "ridiculous" rituals practiced by the ancient priests. That is where you start to see the difference between an atheist and a humanist: a humanist does not stop seeing the world as magical just because he does not believe in magic. I am looking at the ingredients here, and my interest is very much aroused. Let's take hyssop, for example:

If you were to look at how hyssop is used in other parts of the Bible, you would notice a pattern of it being used in ritual cleansing. I am assuming that the priests were relatively knowledgeable in herb lore, so I am going to experiment with the idea that hyssop might be useful as a cleansing agent.

Well, my first step is to explore whether it is useful as a laxative because "Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean" (Psalm 51:7) suggests that it might have been used for this purpose. Well, I found this site right here:

http://www.globalherbalsupplies.com/herb_information/hyssop.htm

According to this site, it is an immensely useful member of the mint family! Global Herb Supplies identifies for us 14 distinct things it actually does when taken internally. It acts as:

  1. antiseptic [an agent for inhibiting the growth of microorganism on living tissue or destroying pathogenic or putrefactive bacteria]
  2. antispasmodic [an agent which relieves or eases muscular spasms, cramps or convulsions]
  3. astringent [a binding agent that contracts organic tissue, reducing secretions or discharges of mucous and fluid from the body]
  4. carminative [an agent for easing griping pains, colic and expelling gas from the intestines]
  5. diaphoretic [an agent that promotes perspiration]
  6. emmenagogue [an agent that promotes menstrual flow]
  7. expectorant [an agent that promotes the discharge of mucous and secretions from the respiratory passages]
  8. pectoral [remedy for pulmonary or other lung and chest diseases]
  9. purgative [an agent that produces a vigorous emptying of the bowels, more drastic than a laxative or aperient]
  10. stimulant [an agent that excites or quickens the functional activity of the tissues giving more energy]
  11. stomachic [an agent that strengthens, stimulates or tones the stomach]
  12. sudorific [an agent that promotes or increases perspiration]
  13. tonic [an agent that tones, strengthens and invigorates organs or the entire organism giving a feeling of well-being]
  14. vermifuge [an agent to expel parasitic worms, especially of the intestines]

And that's just what it does directly when taken internally. However, it still looks like an empty ritual if you only consider what it does when taken internally. The way they are using it, it doesn't look like they are prescribing it for internal use in this section of the Book of Numbers. Therefore, what I am going to do is scroll down and examine the list of external uses:

  1. for bruises and discolored contusions
  2. for burns
  3. for cuts
  4. for skin irritations
  5. for swellings
  6. for the relief of muscular rheumatism
  7. to aid in healing of wounds
  8. to bathe tired and aching eyes (very dilute)

Well, based on this list, I could form the impression that my original speculation might be correct. It really seems like they might be putting hyssop to some sort of legitimate use as a cleansing agent.

Considering that this website has proven useful for getting good information on hyssop, I will use it to explore the uses of cedar. Check this out:

http://www.globalherbalsupplies.com/herb_information/cedar.htm

Here is a list of external uses:

  1. fungal growths
  2. muscular aches and pains
  3. removing warts
  4. rheumatism
  5. skin afflictions

Here are some other uses:

  1. cosmetics
  2. perfume
  3. scenting soaps
  4. the wood is used for light roofing timber, palings, fencing, etc.

Now, I have a pet theory that the "scarlet wool" refers to an agent used for dying wool, not to actual wool off of a sheep.

Well, I did some research on what dyes might have been used in the ancient world to produce a strong red color, and it just looks increasingly like madder is a strong candidate. Here is a site on it:

http://doctorschar.com/archives/madder-rubia-tinctoria/

According to Doctor Schar, here are some external uses:

"The fruit is useful in hepatic obstructions, and a paste made by rubbing up the roots with honey is mentioned as a valuable application for the removal of freckles and other discolorations of the skin. It is regarded as astringent and useful as an application in external inflammations, ulcers and skin diseases such as pityriasis versicolour, etc. Madder is now chiefly used as a colouring ingredient of medicinal oils."

Another reason I doubt that they were burning dyed wool, though, is that the Westminster Leningrad Codex says nothing about wool. A direct translation just says "scarlet."

Numbers 6:
וְלָקַ֣ח הַכֹּהֵ֗ן עֵ֥ץ אֶ֛רֶז וְאֵזֹ֖וב וּשְׁנִ֣י תֹולָ֑עַת וְהִשְׁלִ֕יךְ אֶל־תֹּ֖וךְ שְׂרֵפַ֥ת הַפָּרָֽה׃

Here, "וּשְׁנִ֣י" or, for pronciation, "usheni," does not refer specifically to dyed fabric, and I think the translators were taking liberties, here, based on the assumption that the priests were engaged in ritual nonsense and symbolic hocus pocus.

Therefore, let's take all of these ingredients and their uses together, and let's consider why the priests are ritually burning a cow and mixing in these ingredients. It's actually explained pretty clearly right here:

"9 “A man who is clean shall gather up the ashes of the heifer and put them in a ceremonially clean place outside the camp. They are to be kept by the Israelite community for use in the water of cleansing; it is for purification from sin. 10 The man who gathers up the ashes of the heifer must also wash his clothes, and he too will be unclean till evening. This will be a lasting ordinance both for the Israelites and for the foreigners residing among them.

11 “Whoever touches a human corpse will be unclean for seven days. 12 They must purify themselves with the water on the third day and on the seventh day; then they will be clean. But if they do not purify themselves on the third and seventh days, they will not be clean. 13 If they fail to purify themselves after touching a human corpse, they defile the Lord’s tabernacle. They must be cut off from Israel. Because the water of cleansing has not been sprinkled on them, they are unclean; their uncleanness remains on them."

"Purification from sin," my ass. I could make a strong argument, here, that the priests were doing nothing more extraordinary (in my opinion, "nothing less extraordinary") than making a very effective soap for cleansing the body. I honestly doubt that it was intended to be an empty ritual. I think that this was a deadly serious attempt, by learned and lettered men, to ward off diseases and plagues.

As for why they were not more clear on this, you have to understand that the people they were trying to govern were primitive savages, and they had had to bust their asses to be even remotely better. Do you think being a graduate student is hard now? These ancient priests were lucky if they didn't lose their minds.

Anyway, when I say that you have to really take a lot of time and energy to give the Bible a thorough study, that is what I meant. I mean, you might study the same passages and form a very different conclusion from me. You would most likely be applying a drastically different theory of interpretation. Nevertheless, I hope you can appreciate how labor-intensive it is to really do justice to reading the Old Testament.
 
A gratuitous and empty swipe at atheism vis a vis humanism.

Are you familiar with the defence of "pure science" when attempts are made to marginalise it in favour of "applied science?" In short, the obscure question has worth for the sake of merely seeing if an answer is possible. Thus to explore an ancient understanding of the herbs referenced in scripture is not an unworthy question.

Indeed an experimental and creative mind might try to extend the known cleansing properties of a herb in new ways. In the same wAy, If I knew nothing of the action of hydrogen peroxide beyond its utility in the care of small wounds, I might try boiling it to clear the air. I might try running through the vapours if I was under the impression I had a soul to be kept tidy. None of these questions are pointless, nor are they lost on atheists.

What does appear to be lost, in the perspective you advance under the humanist banner, is the bigger picture (even though you acknowledge it in your remarks): religion is not primarily a phenomenon where people contemplate the reasons why ancient people used a herb in a certain way or prescribed or proscribed a certain ritual. You acknowledge yourself how few adherents can even approach the text in this way. It's because religion isn't primarily an intellectual phenomenon; it's an emotional and tribal identity-based phenomenon with political ambition.

Atheism at its most basic is simply the state of being unconvinced that any god exists. As an enlightenment phenomenon it is self-consciously a reaction to zealotry and persecution occasioned by religion throughout history. Most atheist writers balk at the thought of defining an identity based in what they don't believe, given the infinite number of things available for each of us to disbelieve. As an identity, it is constructive only in opposition to the unthinking theocracy still travelling roughshod with great inertia over the lives of too many people.

By your own example you show how a non religious person can find the text yields insights about the human experience. These can be gleaned by scholars other than believing theologians, again, all of which is beside the point that atheists make against the incursion of instituitional delusion in all of our lives. Whether or not one takes a lot of time and effort to study the bible does has little to do with the realised presence of religion in society.

Oh- as a post script, I'm not sure how thrilled most doctors are with the use of hydrogen peroxide in small wound care.
 
A gratuitous and empty swipe at atheism vis a vis humanism.
No, I was trying to explain to Mikey how much labor goes into studying the Bible, not just by scholars who approach it from a secular perspective but also by Biblical scholars who believe in the Christian doctrine. I was trying to provide an example of how to read and analyze something from a scholarly perspective.

As far as "atheist" and "humanist," I am an atheist, but I am also a humanist. The moniker, "atheist," only describes that which I do not believe in, nor do I believe in much of the baggage that goes with the belief that I am denying directly by that self-designation. When calling myself a "humanist," though, I am making a statement of what I do believe in and value. "Atheism" denotes several religions that I do not observe, and "humanism" is what is, for me, my religion.

What does appear to be lost, in the perspective you advance under the humanist banner, is the bigger picture (even though you acknowledge it in your remarks): religion is not primarily a phenomenon where people contemplate the reasons why ancient people used a herb in a certain way or prescribed or proscribed a certain ritual. You acknowledge yourself how few adherents can even approach the text in this way. It's because religion isn't primarily an intellectual phenomenon; it's an emotional and tribal identity-based phenomenon with political ambition.
Oh, that is one thing that I have been harping on throughout these discussions. One thing that I like to say is that, "religion is to science as art is to engineering: to say that a religious belief is not valid because it is not scientific is like saying that a painting of misty foothills is ugly because it isn't a good blueprint for building a bridge."

Well, among my beliefs is the idea that good scholarship is valuable in its own right. It is valuable not because it necessarily accomplishes anything directly, not because it is entertaining, but because it helps fill your life with meaning. I am willing to endure hardship and financial setback in the name of good scholarship. I ask for no award or recognition for it. It is truly something that I believe in, and it has a depth of meaning to me; therefore, I like to share it.

To exercise good scholarship is to take responsibility for the validity of one's conclusions. It is to treat any belief one asserts as if it is of vital importance to be as thorough as possible in exploring the various avenues of exploration of a topic. It is to have a deep, personal conviction, as one thinks about a subject, that getting at the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the unabridged, unfiltered truth is worthwhile, even in cases that it means throwing out a large number of assumptions one had long set great store by, even when it means turning one's perception of an entire topic violently inside-out.

Of course, I realize that there are divinity students who have an equally high esteem for good scholarship, and some of them consider it an aspect of their Christianity. However, that is part of the distinction between a "secular humanist" and a "Christian humanist."

Here is the manifesto of religious humanism:

http://imagejournal.org/page/journal/editorial-statements/religious-humanism-a-manifesto

THE title I've given this editorial statement is half-serious, half-ironic. Religious humanists are, by and large, men and women of letters who command no legions, and who go about their work without much taste for manifestos and movements. Throughout history, religious humanists have manifested a keen awareness of the limits of political action and ideological posturing.

Quoted Text: Truncated: Content © 1999 - 2013 Center For Religious Humanism

Here, on the other hand, is the Humanist Manifesto I:

Humanist Manifesto I

The Manifesto is a product of many minds. It was designed to represent a developing point of view, not a new creed. The individuals whose signatures appear would, had they been writing individual statements, have stated the propositions in differing terms. The importance of the document is that more than thirty men have come to general agreement on matters of final concern and that these men are undoubtedly representative of a large number who are forging a new philosophy out of the materials of the modern world.

- Raymond B. Bragg (1933)

Quoted Text: Truncated: Source Link: http://www.americanhumanist.org/Humanism/Humanist_Manifesto_I

Copyright © 1933 by The New Humanist and 1973 by the American Humanist Association

But the point is that I cannot tell a person what I am by merely telling that person what I am not, but I must also, in order to be thorough, explicate what I am. If I do not so expound, I remain a enigma, enshrouded in mystery, wrapped in a riddle.
 
It behooves me to add that the manifesto on Religious Humanism was actually an editorial by Gregory Wolfe of the Institute for Advanced Catholic Studies. I just wanted to clarify that.
 
Mariatenebre.....Everything you are saying makes for an excellent fictional Novel, right? Gotta laugh at it when I read the final published book!
Well the Bible is a fictional novel and we are speaking of a god that dosen't exist so yeah this fits well in fiction.
You have to read, study and pray the Old Testament in the genre that it was written in those days in order to get a better understanding of what is being said.

I know what is being said and even so it is irrevalent. The point is did the evil things in the Old Testament happen and did your god atleast condone them. If the Bible is true and the Old Testament is divine revelation then the answer is yes. However even still the New Testament has many evil things in it as well as does Catholic doctrine.
 
The Bible, the Word of God; put forth by Human Hands and minds through the inspirations of the Holy Spirit....is by no means a fictional book

I would characterize the bible as something more than fiction, myself; with the understanding that we need to think about things differently at different times. One might draw from it every sort of inspiration and instruction. In a ritual setting, I even approve of literal reflection.

But I don't think one can reasonably argue that it always provides the best account of things.

Genesis 6-9 relates the story of Noah, the flood, and Noah's stewardship of every kind of animal on the earth. Do you regard that as "by no means...fictional"?
 
Silly girl....The Bible, the Word of God; put forth by Human Hands and minds through the inspirations of the Holy Spirit....is by no means a fictional book, or shall I say...Books, in the plural, not in the singular. They were all written in different genres of their times, and a few of the books have different genres in its pages. Now, if you will, please....give some prime examples of passages you are talking about. Thank you.

It is a fictional book. It has as much historical validity as the Greek myths. These books according to your religion describe real events and actions committed by your god now for the evil things Yahweh has done I shall show you a bit. If you actually went to an actual historian and said that the Bible was an accurate historical book you would get your ass laughed out of the building. Hell the Greek myths contain more truth then the Bible in terms of science and history as the Greeks were a much more advanced society then the Hebrews or their ancestors the Canaanites. There are many parts of the Bible that we know did not happen such as by not limited to Egyptian slavery and Hebrew invasion of the Canaanites.
http://www.evilbible.com/Ritual_Human_Sacrifice.htm
http://www.evilbible.com/Rape.htm
http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/genocide.html
http://bible.cc/luke/19-27.htm

Anymore you wish me to speak of. I already exposed evil things in Catholic doctrine and of course you spoke in that you agree with the misogynist and homophobic things there in [Text: Removed]
 
Well, Maria, It will take me all of Lent to read all these things prayerfully and ask God all the who, what when and the why's of what you want me to see, and as I see it at first glance is that you are forgetting about the many different genres of literature in these texts that were written in those times. You also have to understand that not all of Scriptures are to be taken in the literal sense, so this comes down to you interpreting scriptures to be as bad as the so-called Christian fundamentalists.

I don't want you to read these things prayerfully or ask the Canaanite war god you worship how to interpret them. I want you to read them in the eyes of logic and reason. Next literal or not the Bible according to Christians is divinely inspired according to them. So if this is true then every story there in is a reflection of god's moral compass and what he advocates and does is clearly representative of his character. You also hold this book to be true and to be divine revelation so therefore if god is advocating or does somthing the opposite of what this text says then it clearly is not true and definitely not divinely inspired Either the Bible is right and accurately reflects your god's character and the actions he does, approves of and commands or it dosen't. As much as you think you are following your faith to the T as I see you pick and choose the verses that are convienient to you and ignore the verses that show your god as a genocidal war lord. I see the Bible and everything described of Yahweh's character and I reject him.
 
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