On Topic Discussion On fatherhood, mentoring and brotherhood.

[ElmosToe]

I'm mainly concerned with you moving in with this women in the mix. I understand it's his kid but I believe she is going to resent you being there. Does she know you are coming and have you met her? You are a good friend and he is lucky to have you. I hope if you do move in with them all works out but it appears he needs to run from this woman as fast as he can before she drags him down and possibly you with him. Please be careful.

ibill1 has a point. Does she now you're going to live with them? You being there might cause more problems. Help him get his life together so he can begin to do something about his situation. No one should have to deal with an abusive partner.

Thanks for feedback and support guys.
Completely agree with the above.

I have not met her in person, only talked to her over the phone.
But she did tell me herself that she was ok with me living with them and encouraged me to move in with them, but it was his idea. So she does know I am coming out there, but I also agree that me being there will cause added strain and resentment on her part to an already extremely volatile situation.
I also pointed this out to both of them and was trying to get them to be practical about it.

This of course was all before my buddy started admitting all this crap that has been going on...

How the idea of me moving there came about was after having a very long discussion with both of them about my situation with my nephew while down in Dallas. I realized me living in essentially a "frat house" full of drunk, stoned, horny college students all having sex in front of each other with my nephew expecting a threesome with me and some other shit as well as two of his other friends who had also attempted to get me into a threesome with them, one of the friends being only 17, so he would technically be underage... (a whole other long story in another thread I could probably start)...as hot as it may sound...would not be a healthy situation even if just for a few months until I could get my own place.

So since my buddy does pretty much owe me for being there through his extremely tough times, he's realized this and wants to "pay me back" in a way. Why he came up with the idea of me moving there. Now I did not realize until he started telling me all this stuff that one of his ulterior motives in getting me out there was so he could basically break it off with her and have a "safety net" to go to aka me, when all the shit starts hitting the fan, child custody case, her psychotic unstable behavior, who knows what she will do if he tries to break up with her...

But I m pretty sure he has it in his mind that once I'm out there, it will give him added support and ammunition to finally get the fuck away from her and get a place of his own with me being his roommate again. My concern is for my buddy and his son. It's not a healthy environment and the tension alone is going to cause harm to the kid, let alone him seeing her physically and verbally abuse his father.

 

[dereperez]

I feel male bonding or "guy time" is very important because that's when you are most vulnerable and true to yourself and your feelings, without all the emotional or sexual mess. Platonic friendship, regardless of gender, is extremely important. I have a few very close guy friends but have almost no male companionship/bonding within the family. My biological father left when I was very young and though we still talk once in awhile...it's not the same, not by a longshot. My relationship with my stepdad is basically superficial. I only have my mom and two sisters and it is estrogen overload when I visit them during the holidays. Do I have "daddy issues"? Maybe...but I think mainly I just ponder what could have been or what it would be like if I had a strong paternal influence.

I have been a mentor of sorts to my younger cousin. He has slowly been coming out of his shell in terms of his sexuality and he had confided in me of his sexual curiosity and interests. He doesn't feel comfortable to talk to anyone else about his feelings and I am happy I can be his big brother in a way.

 

[mikey3000]

Men are not encouraged to have close friends. It's not "cool". Other men are the competition, at work and at play; adversaries. Everyone from Oprah to The View to Cosmo is enabling women's sisterhood, but who is enabling us? Most men today are so lonely. You can see it on their faces. I know because I was one of them. One can be in a crowded room and still be lonely. So sad. But I fixed me and have never been happier.

 

[Kulindahr]

ET, she needs professional help.

My gut says when you move in with them, the first time you find she's beaten him confront her and tell her either she starts going to counseling (family therapy would be a good idea, with you counting as family), or you report her to the cops. Domestic abuse isn't just guys treating women badly; it works both ways.

 

[blackbeltninja]

Thanks for feedback and support guys.
Completely agree with the above.

I have not met her in person, only talked to her over the phone.
But she did tell me herself that she was ok with me living with them and encouraged me to move in with them, but it was his idea. So she does know I am coming out there, but I also agree that me being there will cause added strain and resentment on her part to an already extremely volatile situation.
I also pointed this out to both of them and was trying to get them to be practical about it.

This of course was all before my buddy started admitting all this crap that has been going on...

How the idea of me moving there came about was after having a very long discussion with both of them about my situation with my nephew while down in Dallas. I realized me living in essentially a "frat house" full of drunk, stoned, horny college students all having sex in front of each other with my nephew expecting a threesome with me and some other shit as well as two of his other friends who had also attempted to get me into a threesome with them, one of the friends being only 17, so he would technically be underage... (a whole other long story in another thread I could probably start)...as hot as it may sound...would not be a healthy situation even if just for a few months until I could get my own place.

So since my buddy does pretty much owe me for being there through his extremely tough times, he's realized this and wants to "pay me back" in a way. Why he came up with the idea of me moving there. Now I did not realize until he started telling me all this stuff that one of his ulterior motives in getting me out there was so he could basically break it off with her and have a "safety net" to go to aka me, when all the shit starts hitting the fan, child custody case, her psychotic unstable behavior, who knows what she will do if he tries to break up with her...

But I m pretty sure he has it in his mind that once I'm out there, it will give him added support and ammunition to finally get the fuck away from her and get a place of his own with me being his roommate again. My concern is for my buddy and his son. It's not a healthy environment and the tension alone is going to cause harm to the kid, let alone him seeing her physically and verbally abuse his father.

If I'm completely and bluntly honest, how the hell this part has even happened to you at your age should be a cause for serious concern for you, by you.

-d-

 

[ElmosToe]

If I'm completely and bluntly honest, how the hell this part has even happened to you at your age should be a cause for serious concern for you, by you.

-d-

It is a concern for me, that's just a given. Going through a very difficult situation with my life right now, in a very difficult financial mess. My house is going into foreclosure and I have been working with a lawyer and the lender to avoid bankruptcy and foreclosure.
Trying to get out of where I am living and be closer to family or friends...people I care about and that matter to me.

I stayed with my nephew because my sister suggested I consider moving down to the area where he lives as she explained he was completely alone down there and needed help with his legal issues to keep him out of prison. So I stayed with him for a couple months to get a feel for the area, check out jobs, housing etc. I was able to get a couple jobs while I was down there and helped him finish his probation program so he wasn't hauled off to prison. After experiencing what life would be like living with him, as much as I love him, would not be a good situation.

 

[eastofeden]

My best friends have always been other men but I look to nature and wonder how natural it is after childhood as the males tend to fight for dominance in so many species and humans are no exception...I might elaborate more later.....

The situation with your friend concerns me..I think you are walking into a time bomb. There is a web there and it probably goes deeper than anyone could imagine.

Here's the thing..toxic behavior takes two...ALWAYS... and basically your friend has married his mother as men often do. While he may cry for help and actually need help a deeper part of his psyche [STRIKE]might be[/STRIKE] is creating the circumstances he is in for a variety of reasons. He picked her for a reason....and he is picking you for a reason...

Maybe if you help him at a distance it might be better. No good deed goes unpunished....and entering into a relationship as volatile as theirs and one or both of them is likely to turn it on you...I have seen it happen many times over....

I'm sorry to say it but I like you and I think it needs to be said

 

[Junior42]

Elmoestoes, your story sounds oh so very familiar to one of my friends and I.

I lived on one coast, he lives on the other with a newborn and crazy wife (who he married because of the child) He was in the NAVY, and I would get horrific updates from him on how volatile the relationship was and how helpless I felt living so far away.

The important thing that I had to realize, was that I had to be objective. His wife had moments of crazy, and she did a lot of thing that to me were just crazy, but over time as my friend and I would talk I realized he was not so innocent either.

The low point was when they were on the same coast as me on vacation and he actually got arrested and I got to bail him out. He got intoxicated, argument happened and he went to far. It was after that and the court case he and I went to that he started getting himself together.

There is so much more to this story, but I am pressed for time. I think my biggest advice is NOT to move in with them. Move closer, get your own place so that you have your space and he has a place to get away if needed. Throughout my friends issues, I never once thought, I should move in and try and help or fix these issues that my friends have. It just would not work.

Good luck

 

[peeonme]

When it comes to my relationship with my dad, it's kind of a distant image at this point as he has been dead since 1961.
I remember him as a serious, honest and firm person. The lessons that stuck with me were such things using proper English, proper table manners and being polite.
The polite thing meant to never interrupt someone who is speaking, never contradict an adult and always say please and thank you.
Not applying these guidelines to my daily conduct was good for a number of smacks on my ass from his belt, it did not kill me.

I would say that the man who made the greatest impression on me was Floyd Starr, at 86 he was still running the boy's school that the court had sent me to. He was a proper gentleman at all times, very refined and dignified.
He also demanded proper manners, I was already trained well in that department thanks to my father.
Mr. Starr unlike my dad was ready to talk about anything, I remember him telling a bunch of us (ages from 11 to 16) that 9 out of 10 men will admit that they played with themselves when they were boys... and the 10th man is a liar. Loved his openness.

When I raised my son I guess I combined being proper with being open and also with a type of brotherhood between my son and myself, when we played together(which was often) we were like brothers, we teased each other, clowned around and were open...
I had told him to come to me about anything, nothing was off limits. We loved fishing, playing catch or just taking very long walks, many of his friends looked to me as a mentor, our home was a safe place for him and his friends.

I wish that I had some close friends now, but at 62 it seems hard to make any, I don't think it's uncommon.

 

[Kyanimal]

There are SO Many Issues that this thread has brought up. All of them are Important, and can have Tremendous impacts on our Lives, and those of the others around us. For now, though, I'll try to stick with moving in with married friends.

In the interest of not writing a novel, I'm going to try to gloss over TONS of specifics.

My friends KNOW that their secrets are Safe with Me, and what they tell me, even when not specifically noted as Confidential, will always be treated as such. I'm generally viewed as a Trusted "counselor".

I have, on several occasions, moved in with married friends that were experiencing some problems. Of course this was only done with the consent of everyone involved. One of those instances also involved two early teen stepsons.

I'll leave out Kev's youngest sister, moving in with us "temporarily", after her divorce, with her three sons, gong on 4, 5, and 6. That "temporary" lasted for six years. A VERY Crucial time in those young guys' lives.

Back to the married couples/families. Those happened when I was still in my 20s, and done with the Best of Intentions on the part of all parties involved.

The most any of these arrangements lasted was a little over a year. Though I was able to sooth over a lot of the superficial things, my very presence, that close, proved to present some unintended problems all on it's own. It was kind of like the idea that merely observing a situation actually changes the situation itself. The fact that I was there effected the overall dynamics, in those relationships, the moment I arrived.

All in all, when there were kids involved, I'd like to think I had a Positive influence on Them. However, that wasn't always the case with the Adults. In one particular instance, I was too late. They had already solidified their contrary positions, that were too deeply seated, by Then, to overcome, at least with my limited influence. I had to accept that realization, and move on. I have not since seen my Godson, who was born while I was there.

The unexpected part of that situation was that my Friend's wife, and I, had the greatest positive effect on each other. In fact, I'm in the business that I am because of Her. She, and her family, continued on successfully, while my Friend only descended further down his own deteriorating spiral.

That was a Tough thing to realize, and see happen. HE was the one I was there to primarily Help! But, through his own actions, the courses he chose to continue to follow, due to his upbringing, and past problems, in spite of all our efforts, were his ultimate downfall. I/We tried! His own "demons" proved to be more powerful than we were.

ET, going on everything that you have told us about your Friend, please keep in mind that you're mainly only getting one side of the coin, so far. And, with that in mind, I would strongly agree with the proposition of getting your own place, as soon as possible, as a "neutral" place, for your Buddy, and, yes, even his wife, so you can keep an objective distance, but still have some influence.

Don't go into that Highly Volatile situation without completely Open expectations. Grant both sides the Benefit of "the doubt". And, as Soon as you can, get your own place, at a respectful distance, for Them, AND, for You!

Of course ... and, I mean this Quite Seriously ... No Matter What ...

Keep Smilin'!! (For YOUR own Good!)
Chaz

 

[ElmosToe]

The situation with your friend concerns me..I think you are walking into a time bomb. There is a web there and it probably goes deeper than anyone could imagine.

Here's the thing..toxic behavior takes two...ALWAYS... and basically your friend has married his mother as men often do. While he may cry for help and actually need help a deeper part of his psyche [STRIKE]might be[/STRIKE] is creating the circumstances he is in for a variety of reasons. He picked her for a reason....and he is picking you for a reason...

Maybe if you help him at a distance it might be better. No good deed goes unpunished....and entering into a relationship as volatile as theirs and one or both of them is likely to turn it on you...I have seen it happen many times over....

There is so much more to this story, but I am pressed for time. I think my biggest advice is NOT to move in with them. Move closer, get your own place so that you have your space and he has a place to get away if needed. Throughout my friends issues, I never once thought, I should move in and try and help or fix these issues that my friends have. It just would not work.

ET, going on everything that you have told us about your Friend, please keep in mind that you're mainly only getting one side of the coin, so far. And, with that in mind, I would strongly agree with the proposition of getting your own place, as soon as possible, as a "neutral" place, for your Buddy, and, yes, even his wife, so you can keep an objective distance, but still have some influence.

Don't go into that Highly Volatile situation without completely Open expectations. Grant both sides the Benefit of "the doubt". And, as Soon as you can, get your own place, at a respectful distance, for Them, AND, for You!

eoe,
agree completely, walking into a timebomb.

thanks for the added replies, feedback and contributions guys.


Just to clear a couple things up.
They're not married, just in a serious long term relationship.
And I'm not going there to try to fix their relationship, just a matter of necessity.
I do agree Chaz, I have to remember I am for the most part only getting one side of the situation.

Although it was my buddy's idea after I explained my entire situation, they did both offer me a place to stay, to move in with them temporarily just for a couple months until I get established, get a job, get a place of my own. That was and always has been the plan regardless of where I went.

They offered this to me out of necessity since I don't have many options at the moment and I need to get out of here. If all my efforts fail at keeping the foreclosure process on hold, keeping the lawsuits at bay, resolve some of the mess, keeping myself from bankruptcy, long enough to earn enough money to pay for the move and sell my house, then I will be facing a very dire situation. I've been homeless once before and refuse to become homeless again.

No matter where I live, it would need to be with someone else in a roommate type situation because my financial mess as a result of being let go from my long time job and then being underemployed and unemployed for a stretch has severely impacted my credit that I would not be able to get a place of my own, let alone not being able to afford a place of my own financially.

And because he actually does owe me several thousands of dollars from when he was struggling through his hard times and being unemployed himself for almost 2 years, all the while I was paying for all his expenses and taking care of his son and paying for his son's expenses. This does not include all the money I gave to him just as a gift. In addition, I was there for him as emotional support and helped him work through his drug addiction and alcoholism. So even though I've never demanded he pay me back or expected him to return the multitude of favors I did for him, he has expressed that he feels guilty that he is not here for me now as it's now my turn to face hard times and struggles and basically I'm facing this alone because all my friends wised up, moved and got the fuck out of here because this place fucking sucks. The jobs suck, the pay sucks, the people suck, the weather sucks, the housing market sucks, there is nothing here for me and no reason for me to stay, nothing keeping me here.

But basically this is what my situation has been for several months now and why I ended up staying with my nephew, because if I move down where he lives, I would most likely be staying with him until I can get my own place. Why my buddy in ATL offered up his place to help me out and offer an alternative.

 

[ElmosToe]

I have been a mentor of sorts to my younger cousin. He has slowly been coming out of his shell in terms of his sexuality and he had confided in me of his sexual curiosity and interests. He doesn't feel comfortable to talk to anyone else about his feelings and I am happy I can be his big brother in a way.

When I raised my son I guess I combined being proper with being open and also with a type of brotherhood between my son and myself, when we played together(which was often) we were like brothers, we teased each other, clowned around and were open...
I had told him to come to me about anything, nothing was off limits. We loved fishing, playing catch or just taking very long walks, many of his friends looked to me as a mentor, our home was a safe place for him and his friends.

^I like this, very cool

I wish that I had some close friends now, but at 62 it seems hard to make any, I don't think it's uncommon.

^agreed,

seems to be a very common theme for most as we get older we seem to lose friends rather than gain or retain them.
I think it's something that's due for a change in our society.

 

[Kulindahr]

^I like this, very cool

I agree.

It makes me think of my mom, who when the family moved into town from the countryside (without telling me, so when I came home from college for a weekend with eight friends, I needed direction!) became a substitute mom for at least a half dozen friends and acquaintances of my younger brother. One had an alcoholic mom, another mom slept around when the dad was off on business, one's mom was just abusive to the whole family, another pretty much ignored her kids.... In every case, my mom had something they needed. A high point was when one thanked the mom for making him do chores at our house, because it made him feel like he belonged there, which he didn't at his home. Over four or five years, just by being herself my mom straightened out more than a few young lives.

 

[Kyanimal]

^ Kuli, THAT is AWESOME!

Knowing that, I'm LOVIN' your Mom even more than Bammer!

Don't let Him know that, though!

Keep Smilin'!!
Chaz

 

[ElmosToe]

powerful.

Owl City - This Isn't the End Lyrics



An 8 year old girl had a panic attack
Cause the father she loved left and never looked back
No longer the hero she counted on
He told her he loved her and then he was gone
She tried to look happy in front her friends
But knew that she’d never feel normal again
She fought back the tears as they filled her eyes
And wanted him back just to tell him goodbye

When the rain falls down
When it all turns around
When the light goes out this isn’t the end

Her dad was a good guy that everyone liked
But nobody knew he was dying inside
He promised his family he’d be all right
And then with a gunshot he left them behind

When the rain falls down
When it all turns around


When the light goes out this isn’t the end
When the rain falls down
When it all turns around
When the light goes out this isn’t the end. (Nooo-oh)

A role of a father he never deserved
He abandoned his daughter, and never returned
And over the years though the pain was real
She finally forgave him, and started to heal
How close to the ending? Well, nobody knows
The future’s a mystery and anything goes
Love is confusing and life is hard
You fight to survive cause you made it this far

It’s all too astounding to comprehend
It’s just the beginning this isn’t the end
It’s just the beginning this isn’t the end.

 

[mikey3000]

Very cool song, ET.
My Dad died when I was 10 and I never had many close friends at all growing up, so this topic really hits home. No uncles, no brothers, no one to fill the void. I had to try to figure out for myself what "being a man" meant. Boy did I ever mess up on that one. 30 years later I am stuck in something I can't get out of. It is so important for young men to have guidance.

 

[ElmosToe]

Very cool song, ET.
My Dad died when I was 10 and I never had many close friends at all growing up, so this topic really hits home. No uncles, no brothers, no one to fill the void. I had to try to figure out for myself what "being a man" meant. Boy did I ever mess up on that one. 30 years later I am stuck in something I can't get out of. It is so important for young men to have guidance.

ty. damn. ^ some truth right there.

 

[LeicsDom]

I think it's unusual to make new friends, really close ones anyway, when you're older.

My two best friends only became thus when I was 40
My latest best friend has only been in my life for 3 years

 

[ElmosToe]

^ true, never too late to foster deep meaningful friendships with people, we all need more of them even if it is unusual according to societal standards, all the more reason to garner more of them.

 

[sixthson]

True friendship, deep friendship, requires intimacy and intimacy requires vulnerability. Men tend to not do vulnerability well because it means letting others know we don't always have our shit together. We put up an "in control" facade so we don't appear weak. God forbid we should ever appear weak, right? There is no shame in needing the friendship of another man. Women have no trouble revealing their souls to each other, but our culture (as well as everything else) teaches men to only show strength. Showing love or tenderness or affection between males would not come across as very heterosexual. And men can't have that, right? Right??