On-Topic Operation Zeus - Greek Stop and Frisk... to a new level...

[pat grimshaw]

I admire people who go to these war-torn, crisis-ridden places full of mayhem, rape and murder and actually do something to help. I have less admiration for rich people sitting in comfortable armchairs in rich countries pontificating and telling desperate people how to live their lives. The USA gave millions of dollars in past decades but that link in the Huffpost article above says that Greece only asked for a tenth of million of US dollars last time.

 

[bankside]

I think your awareness of the Greek situation is a bit limited if you think Greece is a place full of mayhem, rape and murder. It's not like Somalia or something. They have the wherewithal to do better than harassing people lawfully admitted to their country because of the most inept racism. And they have the wherewithal to control their borders competently instead of humouring this mutant nazi faction within Parliament. The criticism is on target: Greece needs to do better. This is a modern country with Euros and Olympics and metro systems. It isn't like Burma after thirty years of despotism.

 

[JayHawk]

Who gives a shit how much Greece asked for in aid. I have been there and they are no war torn desperate society. Good god where does this shit get into your head?

P.S. I have been to war torn countries receiving our aid and delivered medical and dental services along with food and infrastructure. What Greece does not get from us it gets from the EU. We are not the worlds piggy bank and indiscriminate beating of people of a certain color would certainly not sway us to spend more.

Still since you refuse to answer any of the questions, just pontificate about some other topic feel free to address it or move on....

 

[pat grimshaw]

How so? Please explain how rounding up immigrants using discriminatory practices differs from country to country?

You have to use discriminatory practices; you discriminate between taxpayers and non-taxpayers; between illegal people demanding free food and shelter and non-illegal people demanding food and shelter, between biased, emotional news reporting and first-hand accounts of the recent flood of illegals in Greece happening now.

 

[pat grimshaw]

I think your awareness of the Greek situation is a bit limited if you think Greece is a place full of mayhem, rape and murder. It's not like Somalia or something. ...

It's certainly not like the USA or something.

 

[bankside]

It's certainly not like the USA or something.

Good grief. A basket case is somewhere like Afghanistan. They earn $1399 each, per year, according to the World Bank.
A hundred and twenty one countries later up the ladder of development, you get to Greece. They earn $24 667 each, per year.

That's enough money for an economy where people have houses and cars and the odd vacation or night out at the symphony. Not tents and donkeys.

 

[kallipolis]

I volunteer with a well known NGO interviewing migrants specifically from Iran and Afghanistan accumulating some measure of understanding on the issues that migrants face living in Greece while waiting to continue on their journey north into Europe.

This article is a little out of date but reflects accurately the crisis that Greece is facing from vast inflows of illegal migrants en route to Northern Europe destinations:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444506004577617383132000476.html

 

[kallipolis]

I will quote from the captioned article for those facing limited access despite the article dating from September 2012:

quote

The men, says one officer, are illegal immigrants, who apparently spent the night on the dock hoping to sneak onto a ferry to Italy. They are part of a deluge of undocumented workers trying to reach Europe through Greece, and slipping past authorities is just part of the process. "Day in, day out, the same story," the officer lamented, trying to catch his breath.

[Quoted Article: Truncated] Copyright ©2013 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Source Link: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444506004577617383132000476.html

unquote

 

[JayHawk]

Yeah there are quite a few articles depicting the difficult circumstance from both the Greek and immigrant perspective. Since that full quote likely violates trademark and will be removed; what do you think about the situation and your countries reaction to the problem?

 

[kallipolis]

There will always be a over zealous even, racist police officer who will over react when checking the papers of an immigrant.

There was a case a few months ago of two plain clothes police officers stopping two South Korean tourists with communication a real problem for the officers and the tourists were unable to understand one another. One officer proceeded to slap the couple for not cooperating. The two officers were brought before a police disciplinary board with one officer fined one month's salary and the other dismissed from the police service.

There are stupid officers in every police force the world over. Greece is no exception.

 

[bankside]

There will always be a over zealous even, racist police officer who will over react when checking the papers of an immigrant.

Do you not see it as a more systematic problem, partly given the situation in Parliament?

 

[White Eagle]

There will always be a over zealous even, racist police officer who will over react when checking the papers of an immigrant.

There was a case a few months ago of two plain clothes police officers stopping two South Korean tourists with communication a real problem for the officers and the tourists were unable to understand one another. One officer proceeded to slap the couple for not cooperating. The two officers were brought before a police disciplinary board with one officer fined one month's salary and the other dismissed from the police service.

There are stupid officers in every police force the world over. Greece is no exception.

That sounds so much like what goes on over here, and world over, as you say. Probably will be no answer to it soon.

 

[kallipolis]

Do you not see it as a more systematic problem, partly given the situation in Parliament?

The international media makes much of the fact that Neo Nazis (The Golden Dawn) are represented in parliament. People are voting for extremists on the far left, and the far right as a protest against the corruption, and incompetence of the two centre parties that have held the reins of power over the past thirty years. It is also true that the Golden Dawn receives an enormous amount of voting support from police officers.

Police officers have been reprimanded and reminded frequently by their superiors that the Greek tourist industry depends on tourists from all over the world including Asia. Greece does not need thuggish behaviour from police officers and it would appear that the message is getting through to police officers. The Golden Dawn has also been assuming a lower profile in response to public disquiet at their activities, and they also have been on receiving end of counter assaults from radicalised groups. Two can play the same game.

 

[bankside]

I find it reassuring that Greece has an appetite to contain people of their ilk. Glad to know it.

 

[kallipolis]

I find it reassuring that Greece has an appetite to contain people of their ilk. Glad to know it.

The issue is not one of restricting Greece to Greeks but of being able to shelter, feed, clothe and offer medical assistance to some one million permanent migrants out of a population of ten million Greeks while also attempting to deal with some one hundred thousand migrants passing through Greece each year needing practical assistance until they move on to other countries.

The food banks of Athens are now providing assistance for poverty stricken Greeks as well as poverty stricken migrants.

 

[bankside]

The issue is not one of restricting Greece to Greeks but of being able to shelter, feed, clothe and offer medical assistance to some one million permanent migrants out of a population of ten million Greeks while also attempting to deal with some one hundred thousand migrants passing through Greece each year needing practical assistance until they move on to other countries.

The food banks of Athens are now providing assistance for poverty stricken Greeks as well as poverty stricken migrants.

Sorry; I'm not sure I said clearly what I was thinking.

I'm glad to see Greece is willing to contain an inappropriate response (golden dawn) to a real problem (illegal immigration being out of control.)

 

[kallipolis]

Sorry; I'm not sure I said clearly what I was thinking.

I'm glad to see Greece is willing to contain an inappropriate response (golden dawn) to a real problem (illegal immigration being out of control.)

Your clarity is helpful. Those who vote for the Golden Dawn are not voting for that party's policies rather to punish the two centre parties for their failings.

 

[JayHawk]

Glad to see that it is not really populist of an attitude and that reprimands occur. Every policeman on earth has the ability to become corrupt no matter the nationality.

 

[tigerfan482]

Your clarity is helpful. Those who vote for the Golden Dawn are not voting for that party's policies rather to punish the two centre parties for their failings.

Good to see the voters in Greece are just like in the US where they vote on pure emotion instead of well researched policy positions. What exactly did people think would happen when they voted in people with policy positions like that? Guess we're not that different after all. Maybe tomorrow we'll get some leaked information on the surveillance efforts of the Greek government.

 

[bankside]

Glad to see that it is not really populist of an attitude and that reprimands occur. Every policeman on earth has the ability to become corrupt no matter the nationality.

Exactly right. And exactly why it is a risk to put blind trust in the officials of one's own country.