Opinions About PRIDE

[Chris421]

It's not only heterosexuals who want the sexual attitude toned down in public, sorry but I don't want to watch a couple get it on in public, straight or gay. Our pride takes place downtown, a public place so it's accessible for everyone to take part in. GLBT and allies.

Plus, what are you proud of during pride? The fact that you're not being beaten to death for showing someone of the same sex affection in public and happy to be who you are? Or the pride that you're all about sex and want to do it in front of everyone as a "fuck you"?.

 

[G-Lexington]

>>>I'm talking about respect and being inclusive. We can parade around naked and have fun and we get away with it, in public. The police let us break the law and walk around with our junk shaking in the wind. Your response, instead of being grateful, is to say what? It's my day, so fuck off cop? It's my day, so fuck off little kid? The minute it becomes a gay-only event, the leniancy we've had to go naked will no longer be there, so I wouldn't have that don't come if you don't like it attitude. The public and the law show us respect when they come out, we should do the same.

Let me see if I understand this.

1. Gay pride parades involve massive amounts of public nudity and sexual activities. (Not where I am, but OK.)
2. The police and public accept this.
3. And so, to show our gratitude for them allowing us to parade around naked and have sex in public, we should...tone it down, and not parade around naked and have sex in public?

Lex

 

[rotary]

3. And so, to show our gratitude for them allowing us to parade around naked and have sex in public, we should...tone it down, and not parade around naked and have sex in public?

Lex

No. I'm fine with the nudity, and since the public and the law appears to make exceptions for gay pride, we shouldn't be holding an "accept everything I do on gay pride or fuck off" attitude. I haven't mentioned sex, nor have I mentioned excluding it from parades in this thread, though I don't think it's appropriate. I've been speaking towards the attitude to the public and law that some of us seem to have.

 

[G-Lexington]

Well, I'm assuming we're talking Apple computers and Orange Juliuses now. See, in my city, the Gay Pride event is held downtown. And there's NO nudity. I've seen guys in thongish things, and women with stickers over their breasts, but that's as "down and dirty" as it gets. The events are concerts and register-to-vote booths and a fun parade and whatnot.

Guess what? Nothing changes.

"Gay Pride is nothing but drag queens and flaming queers and butch dykes. It has nothing to do with ME. Why can't they put some NORMAL people there?"
"It's just a bunch of gay guys giving the conservatives more reason to hate us. You wouldn't catch me dead there."
"A long parade of a bunch of leather daddies and rainbow fags showing their cocks - no wonder people don't want us getting married."

If ignorance is bliss, these are some really happy folks.

Lex

 

[rotary]

Well, I'm assuming we're talking Apple computers and Orange Juliuses now.

Very much so.

 

[TickTockMan]

Um... a Drag contest for kids? Are you high? What freaking numb skull came up with THAT idea?

YES... Fox news will have a freaking FIELD DAY with that. Think about the media storm that resulted from a few kids singing a song about Barrak Obama and then think about how a video of gay adults putting makeup and fishnets on little boys would play in states that are trying to pass hate crimes and gay civil rights laws.

Yes, "they" will say you're trying to make kids gay. Jesus, *I* would think that.

And Um... what does teaching kids how to dress like a hooker have to do with gay pride? And are the kids even gay?

I mean... wow, I've heard some really bad (bordering on intentionally sabotaging gay rights for the rest of the world) ideas, but that's pretty much up there with "taser the elderly."

1) The kids that come to our PRIDE have asked to do it for a few years now. It was their idea. Also they are teens (maybe down to 10 years old or so) that some already do drag on their own, just not in competition because the only place around here that does drag competitions for under 21 is in Portland and I don’t know if they are even still around.

2) The kids that sung that song got a lot of coverage, but most people just made jokes that there were those that cared. If it wasn’t for conservative news outlets being made fun of, the story would have died a lot sooner.

3) Our pride event is not a gay pride event, it just a pride event. Its for anyone that wants to help foster diversity throughout Oregon’s capital and beyond.

4) To go with # 3 they wouldn’t be dressing like hookers. Like it or not drag queens make up a large part of pride events. If it was not for the people who do drag here in Salem, we wouldn’t have any GLBT life without going out of town.

5) To go with # 4 I don’t know if the kids that want to dress up are gay or not. It doesn’t really matter anyways. I do know the adults that do drag here are gay, straight, bi, trans and just queer in the way they want to be. My guess would be a lot of them would be gay or trans.

6) For a guy that admits he goes to gay sex parties and the alike, its funny you think letting kids that want to dress in drag do so will set back gay rights more than what you partake in. Unless you don’t feel that way if its not forced?

I agree that there should be a more family-friendly environment at Pride celebrations, particularly as there are more and more GLBT families with kids these days... not to belittle or demean the noble pursuit of raising children as a mere fad, but having kids is this decade's answer to brunch.

HOWEVER, I find that people turn into a bunch of nervous nellies when the question of what is appropriate for a child to see or experience is raised. They get all jumpy about whether a child is going to see a sex-shop or porn-company booth at the festival without realizing that children aren't really interested in all that and would rather have a playground somewhere in the festival where they can run around screaming and eating corn-dogs.

I mean, what do they think is going to happen if a kid sees a bare boob or buttock, or a floatful of gym bunnies dancing lewdly? Will it turn him to a life of crime and sexual predation? Hardly.

I saw nothing at the last SF Pride parade that I hadn't seen as a child, I knew that women had boobs and men had penises and saw plenty of both around the house, and I turned out... OK, maybe I'm not a good example. But psychologists will, I'm sure, agree with me when I say that children are not scarred by seeing nudity or sexual behavior; they are scarred by their parents making a big freaking deal out of it so they think it's something more than it is, either scarier or cooler than it should be.

And you know what? If I had to choose between my child seeing and emulating sexual behavior or seeing and emulating violence, I would rather have my eight-year-old bumping and grinding like the guys on the dance-club float than pretending to shoot at someone like the guys on TV.

Wouldn't you?

As for the baby drag contest, that sounds like something a kid could enjoy. It's just dress-up, and kids love dress-up, even boys. Letting a child explore different gender icons in a safe environment is a lot better than making them think there's something wrong with playing around with dresses or fake mustaches.

What Rush Limbaugh thinks about it is irrelevant. He and his ilk will always find something to rant about, it's what they do. And until we can start slamming the media for inciting hate crimes, we just have to ignore them.

I agree most become “nervous nellies” when it comes to anything GLBT and kids. GLBT people being so nervous about such things are a huge disservice to us and to the kids. I have likeed the following quote for a while now and it fits with what you wrote. “Sex is interesting, when its interesting.”

Your thoughts on this are along my own on the subject. Those that will say “we” are trying to turn kids gay are the ones that will always believe “we” choose to be queer. “We” shouldn’t have to live a life in hiding because some will never like “us”. “We” shouldn’t have to obfuscate things just to have a bit of fun.

 

[TickTockMan]

I'd be against kiddie dress-up, too. Not because "oh, no, the conservatives will have a field day with this", but because I can't picture this being an activity that kids will really want to participate in. As any five minutes of watching Toddlers & Tiaras will tell you, it's pretty rare to find a parent of a "dress-up" who is ambivalent about the whole thing. I'd rather not encourage parents of whatever gender or orientation to doll up their kids for public display.

Lex

As far as I know its only kids that have asked for it and the board has always said no. Also I’m not talking about toddlers, but teens to about ten or so that want to do it.

With that said does it change your opinion?

I'm picturing the kids in drag as more of a choice for the kids. Like here's a pile of clothes, have at 'er! If that's the case that can be fun for a child, especially for younger boys if they want to put on a dress and not be made fun of. It's just fun right?

But if it is like a competition and parents are forcing their children then that's not cool.

Every thing you wrote is the way it is meant, except for people being forced to dress up. As I have wrote above in this post, it is the kids that are asking for this.

 

[TickTockMan]

I see room for both. Have a "family friendly" area for the kids and an "adults only" area like they do at LA Pride.

In LA the festival goes on for two days. there's the "erotic city" tent where the BDSM demos and sex toys and such are on display. Then there's the "family area" where kids can do kid's things (but no Little Miss pageants).

There's also the stage where everyone can hang out.

That is what the current board is thinking of doing, but in years past people have left their kids to do what they want without being watched. If we move the kids stuff father away there becomes an insurance problem if we can’t get people to take care of their kids.

There are still those that are worried about stories in the paper if we have an adults area though.

This is such a conflict everywhere. . ..

Just to be clear when I say adult areas I am not talking about an area for sex. Affection would be allowed and encouraged, but I am sure out and out sex would lead to the police being called. That goes for sexual harassment as well. Our adult area would have things like alcohol, “toys”, HIV testing as well as other STI testing, etc.

I guess for us anyways we see PRIDE as more than a party, where some see it just as a party.

Personally I think the HIV testing should be open to under 18 as well, but some have a problem with “kids” having sex, so they don’t want them tested either.

 

[TickTockMan]

Thank you to those that answered. Having other's thoughts help gear me up for when I have to do "the game".

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

6) For a guy that admits he goes to gay sex parties and the alike, its funny you think letting kids that want to dress in drag do so will set back gay rights more than what you partake in. Unless you don’t feel that way if its not forced?

"admits?"

One admits to crimes or shameful things, so I guess you think having sex the way I want and with whom I want at the age of 41 is either a crime or something I should be ashamed of doing.

I don't agree.

And I don't "partake" in going to sex parties with 10 year olds in front of news cameras.

But hey... you go right ahead and dress 10 year old boys up in women's clothes and see how the news media reacts. Then see how the community as a whole reacts. When their video inevitably ends up on Fox News and the kids get called "baby fags" by Fred Phelps, I promise not to say I told you so.

Personally, I don't care if the kids want to have a drag competition or not. When I was 10 I wanted to drive the family car. Luckily I had adults in my life who knew that sometimes you have to say "no" for their own good.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

As far as I know its only kids that have asked for it and the board has always said no. Also I’m not talking about toddlers, but teens to about ten or so that want to do it.

With that said does it change your opinion?

doesn't change mine.

You go ask Jon Benet Ramsey's dad if she "wanted" to do it. You go find those phycho parents on Toddlers and Tiaras if the kids "want" to do it and you'll get a universal "yes."

Teaching kids that young to compete in beauty pageants, even with a gay twist, is just plain wrong. I shudder at the body images of 12 year old boys who think they look fat in fishnets.

I'm also kinda surprised that the guy who directs porn movies is more concerned for the mental well-being of the kids than their parents apparently are.

 

[TickTockMan]

"admits?"

One admits to crimes or shameful things, so I guess you think having sex the way I want and with whom I want at the age of 41 is either a crime or something I should be ashamed of doing.

I don't agree.

And I don't "partake" in going to sex parties with 10 year olds in front of news cameras.

But hey... you go right ahead and dress 10 year old boys up in women's clothes and see how the news media reacts. Then see how the community as a whole reacts. When their video inevitably ends up on Fox News and the kids get called "baby fags" by Fred Phelps, I promise not to say I told you so.

Personally, I don't care if the kids want to have a drag competition or not. When I was 10 I wanted to drive the family car. Luckily I had adults in my life who knew that sometimes you have to say "no" for their own good.

Admits as in you say you go to. I am probably more liberal than you so get off it. Also if you remember back I wrote about wanting to go to a play party myself. Also I didn't say anything about sex parties and kids going. My point was a lot of people that say kids in drag is bad say the same thing about sex parties that you and I enjoy going too.

Also you are leaving out that its the kids themselves that want to do it. No one is forcing them. Below you talk about Toddlers and Tiaras, but this is different. This is drag. A one time a year event with a small prize. No one is going to get famous off this. It would be for fun, not for stage moms and dads to get their kicks.

Also Fred Phelps are already calling GLBT youth "baby fags". Does that mean they shouldn't have fun and live their lives?

doesn't change mine.

You go ask Jon Benet Ramsey's dad if she "wanted" to do it. You go find those phycho parents on Toddlers and Tiaras if the kids "want" to do it and you'll get a universal "yes."

Teaching kids that young to compete in beauty pageants, even with a gay twist, is just plain wrong. I shudder at the body images of 12 year old boys who think they look fat in fishnets.

I'm also kinda surprised that the guy who directs porn movies is more concerned for the mental well-being of the kids than their parents apparently are.

As for your feeling about the mental well-being of kids. You are putting a lot into the conversation that may or may not belong. Its not a beauty pageant, its just fun. You leave out that its the kids that want to do it. You leave out that these kids are mostly teens, some even 19 or 20.

You seem to have an agenda that goes against anything you see as a beauty pageant. Your posts are full of emotional responses on this.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

My point was a lot of people that say kids in drag is bad say the same thing about sex parties that you and I enjoy going too.

The difference being we're adults and understand that the world isn't a big never-ending liberal block party and we're not doing it in front of cameras.

Also you are leaving out that its the kids themselves that want to do it.

Um.. no I'm not. I was very careful to point out that I wanted to do things when I was young that were inappropriate for kids to do. And the adults in my life stepped in and said no.

Below you talk about Toddlers and Tiaras, but this is different. This is drag. A one time a year event with a small prize. No one is going to get famous off this.

But it's still a beauty pageant for kids. If it's wrong for little girls (and I think it is), it's wrong for little boys too. How is "this is drag" a mitigating factor in this?

Its not a beauty pageant, its just fun. You leave out that its the kids that want to do it. You leave out that these kids are mostly teens, some even 19 or 20.

Actually, YOU left that out. When you started this, you said "this is for kids" and said that some were as young as 10. Now you're saying it's adults who aren't old enough to drink. Which is it?

And.. How is it not a beauty pageant?

 

[G-Lexington]

>>>With that said does it change your opinion?

I guess that all depends. Is this just a "kids who want to gender-bend can go get tips from the pros" sort of thing? Or is this going to be a "just for fun" pageant with judges in various categories and prizes for the winners?

Lex

 

[gdude30]

There are still those that are worried about stories in the paper if we have an adults area though.

Just to be clear when I say adult areas I am not talking about an area for sex. Affection would be allowed and encouraged, but I am sure out and out sex would lead to the police being called. That goes for sexual harassment as well. Our adult area would have things like alcohol, “toys”, HIV testing as well as other STI testing, etc.

I guess for us anyways we see PRIDE as more than a party, where some see it just as a party.

Personally I think the HIV testing should be open to under 18 as well, but some have a problem with “kids” having sex, so they don’t want them tested either.

Okay if that's what LA pride does than there is no way I am going to LA pride.

That is fucking retarded if you have to go the "Adult" room to show public affection, have dildos and cock rings and drink. People fucking drink at concerts. When I was 16 I saw a concert and I saw tons of drunk men. No one cared.

Really what having an "adult area" and "family friendly" area sounds more like is "the adult area is for sex and the family area is for not"

If you are going to label a room adult. Than you better be DAMN SURE that people are gonna do adult things. And sex is an adult act.

HIV testing being adult? AnF was doing free drug testing at pride.

Oh but yes of course they had out all their scary needles the blood spilled everywhere and splashed people and someone missed and a baby's blood was taken with a dirty needle.


:/

The HIV testing was done behind the booth and they were being safe about it and all it said on the sign was "Free HIV testing". They did not go "HEY EVERYONE GET TESTED TO KNOW IF YOUR POSITIVE OR NOT" and the little kids diddn't wander in and watch a guy get tested. Why the fuck would HIV testing be considered adult. Fuck I'm sure that some underage kids could benefit from it. Because kids do have sex when they are underaged. I don't give a fuck up the public goes "Gasp underage kids getting tested and it not being family friendly". Better to help them get through life if they do have something at that early age than waiting until they are older and not much being able to do with it. I'm sure if some underage kids were tested they might actually very well be positive with barebacking with tricks or dates being the norm in most cities and most kids wanting to be cool, rebellious and going with the flow.

It would be better to shock society and ignore the news media than to have the person suffer later on in life because they did not diagnose it when they were younger.

I guess so. As I said I was annoyed by some of the drunk men. But you know what. It would have been really easy to go "Hey guys there are some shirtless bears over there". They'd go running over there and would have gotten away from the booth and that would have been the end of that. Some people act pretty stupid when they are drunk anyways. I suppose if the entertainment sucks there has to be some other form of entertainment.

But even with the groping and drunkness working at pride this year turned out great and I think I got a lot more out of it because I helped out.

But there is much more to pride than just partying.

 

[Chris421]

Every thing you wrote is the way it is meant, except for people being forced to dress up. As I have wrote above in this post, it is the kids that are asking for this.

Wasn't entirely clear about it but as I said, they want to do it, cool.

And I don't see the big huff about it, there's a big difference between beauty pageants and a little drag dress up game for a prize. Parent's aren't slaving their kids for months rehearsing on acting like britney spears or madonna for a little prize at a pride event.

 

[TickTockMan]

The difference being we're adults and understand that the world isn't a big never-ending liberal block party and we're not doing it in front of cameras.



Um.. no I'm not. I was very careful to point out that I wanted to do things when I was young that were inappropriate for kids to do. And the adults in my life stepped in and said no.



But it's still a beauty pageant for kids. If it's wrong for little girls (and I think it is), it's wrong for little boys too. How is "this is drag" a mitigating factor in this?



Actually, YOU left that out. When you started this, you said "this is for kids" and said that some were as young as 10. Now you're saying it's adults who aren't old enough to drink. Which is it?

And.. How is it not a beauty pageant?

I give kids more credit than you do. Just because people like to coddle kids and try to keep them as kids into the 50’s doesn’t mean they can’t handle people like Fred Phelps and others. If a kid is old enough to handle a death of someone they are old enough to dress in drag. Again, do you really feel the Phelps’ of the world think kids in drag is all that much worse that us going to a sex party? Do you think that if no kids were ever allowed to be in drag they would stop calling other fags?


Be that as it is inappropriateness varies. This is clothes and maybe some makeup. You are making it sound like they will turn to a life of crime if allowed to dress up.


Its for one day. Its for an hour or two. There is no seriousness involved. It would probably be open to whoever would like to try it in age groups. There is no fame or fortune going to be made. There will be no prepping months or weeks or probably even a day before by those that want to partake in it. That’s the difference and its not even getting into the definition of what a beauty pageant is. Here it is anyways:

beau·ty pag·eant

(plural beau·ty pag·eants)
n
competition determining most beautiful woman: a competition for women in which a panel of judges decides who is the most beautiful of all the candidates

Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.


A kid is someone by society standards that is not an adult. An adult is someone 21 or older for most society standards. When I wrote “they are teens (maybe down to 10 years old or so)” in post # 33 I did not realize I needed to add “with maybe a 20 year old” for people to fully understand what I meant as “kids” or “teens”. If the are already 18 to 20 they can do what they want concerning drag anyway but I also didn’t feel I needed to point that out. I guess maybe I should have.

 

[TickTockMan]

>>>With that said does it change your opinion?

I guess that all depends. Is this just a "kids who want to gender-bend can go get tips from the pros" sort of thing? Or is this going to be a "just for fun" pageant with judges in various categories and prizes for the winners?

Lex

Probably a bit of both without various categories. Right now its just talk so it can be anything. To me I imagine it to be just a few kids (10 to 20) that want to do drag and win more than likely a gift certificate or maybe a few dollars. If you know what a Closetball is it would be sort of like that. If you don’t know what a Closetball is, it is a small drag contest/show where drag queens dress up people that have never done drag before. Then the newbies go perform a song and dance. People do it for fun and everyone wins something usually, even if it is just a bunch of people that share the story of what happened with others.

Many including the straight people that I have seen do it usually keep doing drag since they find it so fun.

This is just a little PRIDE festival. Its intended to give people a good time no matter their age.

 

[TickTockMan]

Okay if that's what LA pride does than there is no way I am going to LA pride.

That is fucking retarded if you have to go the "Adult" room to show public affection, have dildos and cock rings and drink. People fucking drink at concerts. When I was 16 I saw a concert and I saw tons of drunk men. No one cared.

Really what having an "adult area" and "family friendly" area sounds more like is "the adult area is for sex and the family area is for not"

If you are going to label a room adult. Than you better be DAMN SURE that people are gonna do adult things. And sex is an adult act.

HIV testing being adult? AnF was doing free drug testing at pride.

Oh but yes of course they had out all their scary needles the blood spilled everywhere and splashed people and someone missed and a baby's blood was taken with a dirty needle.


:/

The HIV testing was done behind the booth and they were being safe about it and all it said on the sign was "Free HIV testing". They did not go "HEY EVERYONE GET TESTED TO KNOW IF YOUR POSITIVE OR NOT" and the little kids diddn't wander in and watch a guy get tested. Why the fuck would HIV testing be considered adult. Fuck I'm sure that some underage kids could benefit from it. Because kids do have sex when they are underaged. I don't give a fuck up the public goes "Gasp underage kids getting tested and it not being family friendly". Better to help them get through life if they do have something at that early age than waiting until they are older and not much being able to do with it. I'm sure if some underage kids were tested they might actually very well be positive with barebacking with tricks or dates being the norm in most cities and most kids wanting to be cool, rebellious and going with the flow.

It would be better to shock society and ignore the news media than to have the person suffer later on in life because they did not diagnose it when they were younger.

I guess so. As I said I was annoyed by some of the drunk men. But you know what. It would have been really easy to go "Hey guys there are some shirtless bears over there". They'd go running over there and would have gotten away from the booth and that would have been the end of that. Some people act pretty stupid when they are drunk anyways. I suppose if the entertainment sucks there has to be some other form of entertainment.

But even with the groping and drunkness working at pride this year turned out great and I think I got a lot more out of it because I helped out.

But there is much more to pride than just partying.

There is a place and time for sex, our PRIDE event is not it. Its an open park with open tents put up with the so called “adult booths” set away from the others. The “toy” tent only differs because they are made to drape stuff down so you can not see into it from the out side.

As for the testing I agree. It should be out in the open. Even more, for our PRIDE event the testing is not on site. They just give out free info and can set up an appointment to go to the Heath County office for the tests. I don’t even know if a kid could get tested without an okay from a parent, but it seems paranoid to not even let kids see information on HIV and other STI’s. They need it just as bad as sexually active adults.

 

[TickTockMan]

Wasn't entirely clear about it but as I said, they want to do it, cool.

And I don't see the big huff about it, there's a big difference between beauty pageants and a little drag dress up game for a prize. Parent's aren't slaving their kids for months rehearsing on acting like britney spears or madonna for a little prize at a pride event.

We are so in agreement is scares me.