Opinions About PRIDE

[TickTockMan]

For me it would help to know just what PRIDE consists of so far, to get an idea of what these folks are looking at when they say they want it more of something one way or another.

That said, it can be all those things, depending on how it's run. As others have said, divisions by time of day work -- I know of a family which draws two or three hundred for its reunions, and there are games for kids as well as poker games where adults end up broke and carried out 'cause they can't walk for all the booze; they manage it by time of day. In bright sunshine, it's the kids' time, and everyone focuses on them, etc.

Now, if they go to Pride to flaunt their sexualness in front of people to shock them, they shouldn't be going at all. Assuming that's not what they're after, then as the book says, there's a time for everything, and a place: it's just a matter of scheduling.

As for "kid friendly" -- which kids? and friendly, according to whom? Portland PRIDE, in my eyes, is quite kid friendly, but don't tell that to the self-appointed guardians of The Children™, who think everything should be as sanitized as on Leave It To Beaver. When I think of "kid friendly", my memory always goes back to the time up one of Oregon's beautiful rivers where just as I was ready to peel down and enjoy nature naturally, a gal came along with two boys; she proceeded to set up tripod and easel for sketching, and they proceeded to attempt to run the rapids in an inner tube. After a couple of minutes of chatting with her, I asked if it was okay if I went ahead with skinny-dipping. She pondered, and said, "Sure -- they're old enough to learn it's a free country". The point there is that kids are ready for a lot more than most parents think they are, and can handle a lot of things parents worry about so long as the parents don't freak! Which brings to mind another example: a mother at a beach came up to us, practically shrieking, once when I and friends were enjoying the sunshine on all our skin, how her "little girls" (fourteen-fifteen) "didn't need to see that"... but I heard the girls, all embarrassed at their mom, tell her as they left, "Mom, it's nothing we haven't seen in art class".

Anyway.....

To be honest at this point we are trying to start new. The pervious board members really didn’t seem to do it to show pride, but to tell their friends their titles they got by being on the board. As I wrote in my other post to you our current President may be getting voted out and I may take her place for those same reasons. If that does happen and I become President our PRIDE event will hopefully change a lot.

For starters I am already pushing to invite local GSA’s from all local high schools and colleges to attend not only PRIDE, but our planning meetings as well. In the past the board has invited organizations to attend and have a booth at PRIDE, but they leave out organizations such as our local “Bears Club”, “BDSM Club” and The PLA (Portland Leather Alliance) because people feel they are too adult in nature. They are not going to show up and have sex. I see no reason not to invite them and to be honest if they wanted to come but didn’t want to pay the booth fee, if I had the money I would pay it for them. To me I feel PRIDE is losing its pride and I say that about all of the PRIDE events I have ever attended. Its not about what we are, but it is becoming about cheap crap people can sell.

2010 will be our 32nd PRIDE and from everything I have heard it is always a fight to see how bland it will be. Its always the same. A local GLBT band plays some music, some drag performers do a short show, some really bad karaoke, maybe a “talent” show for adults and then you have music just playing in the background while people sell cheap crap and nasty over priced food. I want our PRIDE to be a celebration of what “we” are, were and can be, but for that to happen I have to be able to change the minds of the other board members that are in their 40’s, 50’s and 60’s.

To make it even harder I am the new guy. I am known as the guy that people see all the time at the bar, but hardly ever see people interact with. I don’t have name recognition like everyone else and unlike most I am more honest with myself than most. By that I mean I don’t have any biases going into this. I think the only reason they are even interested in me as President is because I wrote a paper (with the help of Ravenstar and others on here) on how to get our pride back and make it fun. The Vice President really liked what I wrote so he showed it to the founder of our PRIDE and he liked it just as much. This is important to me. Important enough that I hired a counselor just so I have someone I can run my ideas off of and keep me in check if need be.

Truly as of now you want to know what our PRIDE consists of? Your guess is good as mine. We had our election meeting then people wanted us to go on a 30 day hiatus so we did. I have been working on this since the last meeting and I have a lot to bring up. I am just waiting for tomorrow.

I don’t believe kids of any age should be hid from life and that includes sexuality. I don’t believe kids of any age should be hid from the cruel bigots of the world. And I don’t believe people of any age should live their lives to please bigots. Those are my personal views. In starting this thread I was setting that all aside to look for a rational, unbiased reason why people feel the way they do - something I have not been able to get answered at the meeting themselves. So far all I seem to get is bias and those that I already agree with and they help me justify what I believe, but it doesn’t help with the other stuff.

Every meeting I have sat in on has made me think : “We’re here, we’re queer, and we will be over in a little corner trying not to bother anyone.”


That is something I want to change and I think it is something other board members want changed as well, but they are too scared/pressured/stationary/etc. to do it themselves.


Sorry that was so long. Hopefully you understand what I mean.

 

[TickTockMan]

^What he said. I agree 100%. If you are sincerely planning to have a children's drag contest, please be prepared for national coverage and not of the good kind.

As I have already wrote if you would have read the entire thread there is a drag club in Portland (or was) that was for 16 year olds to 20 year olds. 21 and over was only allowed to go in if they were guardians of kids in the club. They advertised heavily what they were and did, that’s how I found out about them because I was looking to take my cousin and her friend to do stuff in Portland. No one complained all that much then. I actually found out about them by reading the comments section on a news story about a GLBT club in New York for those under 21 that had a huge drug problem going on. That was national news and the club did not close down. They did drag nights too.

You talk about “national coverage and not of the good kind”, but stories die fast. Also a lot of the time the stories that stick around awhile stick around because they are still being made fun of.

 

[TickTockMan]

Jasun, I don't think anyone is saying that same-sex couples can't hold hands or kiss in front of children. There's a difference of affection and grinding the hell out of someone haha. If a family were against their children seeing that, I bet they wouldn't be at pride in the first place, especially with their kids. (I'm pretty tired so this is what I'm getting from it, correct me if I'm mistaken )

Personally at pride I feel safe and comfortable to hold my boyfriend's hand and kiss him whenever I want out there. No one within the distance of the field is going to tell me not to or is going to beat me for it. And if someone were to tell me to "think of the children" because I was just showing some affection, I'd tell them to grow up. But I can understand if I were crotch grabbing him and humping his ass that many people would find that inappropriate for such an event.

Now the adult only events after pride? Whoooole different story.

You are not mistaken.

As for the crotch grabbing and humping, they are not allowed just because most of us don’t want to be fondled by strangers. That’s not really a problem though anyways. The people that do that kind of stuff don’t really come to our PRIDE, they go to Bob’s. Those that do are doing it to their friends so no one cares.

 

[Kulindahr]

I've already said that participants need to show respect, not only for the law but for people showing up to watch. If you're going to comment on my posts, the least you could do is read them in their entirely.

I did -- and in the entirety, you said people were breaking the law, and the police looked the other way, and you presented that as being just fine.

 

[Kulindahr]

Personally I don’t care one way or the other, but I do have a problem with letting bigots run MY PRIDE or anyone else’s. Bigots shouldn’t get to dictate what is okay for us, but that is what’s happening.

Okay, I want to hear more about that!

We have the shirtless guys and drag queens, but the past boards have not even got good enough music to dance too for the most part. As I have said before affection is encouraged, but not sex.

Who the frak is picking the music? The Southside Speakeasy has some perfectly good DJs -- I know; one of them is part of the reason I finally figured out it's okay to celebrate my own body. Turn them loose!

I am serving on a board where I am the only one that is in their 20’s and as far as I know, I am the only one looking for a relationship and that gives me a different look at things than the others.

The past board for the last few years has even been too scared to advertise that Salem has a PRIDE. The only way you would know when it was going to happen would be to got to the local GLBT bar, go to one of the two GLBT churches in town, or read JUSTOUT - a magazine for Portlander’s. Sometimes they will put a small ad in the local paper, but now one really reads our paper because it’s a joke.

With that said the current board and community is not happy with the President and want her removed. For whatever reason they want me to take her place.

The way I see it, the only thing we have going for ourselves is Portland PRIDE is in June and ours in in August. People are ready to party again, but once they get here they find almost everyone is too uptight.

OMG, I should be on that board -- they need someone from the NRA, to give them a really different look at things!

For one thing, being in the NRA has taught me that if you have a right, you flaunt it; you don't go begging and pleading and hiding and hoping no one will scold you. I'm proud of being a gun owner, and wherever the lily-livered cowards of our society haven't passed laws saying, "ooh, keep those things out of my sight!" I will often wear one on my hip for the world to see -- so why the frak should I "celebrate" PRIDE in any other way than dressing in rainbows and holding hands with some cutie? or, for that matter, hoisting him onto my shoulders and striding along blowing kisses?
With my gun on my hip, just to throw everyone off....

Your board sounds like a bunch of little girls too afraid they'll wet their pants to even raise their hands if someone asks, "Are you proud of who you are?", let alone actually speak up... or, God forbid, be seen! No wonder Salem's PRIDE has seemed like a little squeaking voice from the corner, trembling and saying, "We're Proud?"!

I ran into a guy, in a store in Molalla, who was wearing a rainbow bracelet. I asked where he got it, and he wouldn't even look at me when he said, faintly, "Salem Pride". Is that the image they're trying to establish????



I'd offer to 'remove' your president, but that's beyond the parameters of good behavior....

 

[Kulindahr]

Some thoughts (without quoting your posts):

Be bold: invite some groups to have a booth for free their first year (do that and I'll do a Pink Pistols booth!).



This is scary:

Every meeting I have sat in on has made me think : “We’re here, we’re queer, and we will be over in a little corner trying not to bother anyone.”

Sounds to me as though your whole board should join a bunch of the Pink Pistols for a shoot one day... and at the end, video-ed for posterity, we set up a chair with a dummy labeled "How We've Always Done It", sit it on a canister of tannerite, and I light it off with a round from my .303 Enfield from fifty yards or so (earplugs recommended) -- then any time someone starts to backslide, we show the vid.



Thinking of nationwide coverage....

If you have some intelligent, self-confident, motivated, quick-thinking kids in that drag bunch, a little footage of a middle school kid giving it right back to a religious bigot would be priceless!

 

[TickTockMan]

Some thoughts (without quoting your posts):

Be bold: invite some groups to have a booth for free their first year (do that and I'll do a Pink Pistols booth!).



This is scary:

Every meeting I have sat in on has made me think : “We’re here, we’re queer, and we will be over in a little corner trying not to bother anyone.”

Sounds to me as though your whole board should join a bunch of the Pink Pistols for a shoot one day... and at the end, video-ed for posterity, we set up a chair with a dummy labeled "How We've Always Done It", sit it on a canister of tannerite, and I light it off with a round from my .303 Enfield from fifty yards or so (earplugs recommended) -- then any time someone starts to backslide, we show the vid.



Thinking of nationwide coverage....

If you have some intelligent, self-confident, motivated, quick-thinking kids in that drag bunch, a little footage of a middle school kid giving it right back to a religious bigot would be priceless!

I honestly don’t know why they seem to want to keep everything so low key. I figure it probably has to do though with the fact we are a government town and everyone either works directly or indirectly for the government around here.


I plan on trying to get them to invite groups we don’t usually see. I doubt I could get it to be free but if you are interested send me contact info for The Pink Pistols and I am sure your group would get an invite.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

Your problem is you are giving me only a biased opinion with nothing to support your reasoning.

Quite honestly, I think I was pretty clear with my reasoning right off the bat.

Pride Day is the one day the gay community shouldn't have to apologize for being who we are and the one day where we're doing it all for us. We're always expected to do what we do in private so we don't upset granny.

But I DO think that young kids of 10 do need adults to shield them a bit from the very mean-spiried outside world.

Reading more of your comments... it seems like you're trying too hard to see both sides. I don't think I'm ever able to do that.

I've stopped going for the most part to Pride Events because they've become boring. They used to be a celebration of sexuality and now they're a celebration of diversity. All that means is that the small minority that gay people are is getting lost in a sea of well-meaning straight people who come to point at the queers but get upset when they start acting like queers.

(and as far as you saying you didn't attack me, it may be not how you meant it but it's how it came off with your 'oh yeah, well you go to sex parties' comment which kinda felt like you were saying that since I have sex I should also be in support of 10 year olds having a drag contest... which I'm still not... I think it's an awful idea.)

 

[Kulindahr]

I honestly don’t know why they seem to want to keep everything so low key. I figure it probably has to do though with the fact we are a government town and everyone either works directly or indirectly for the government around here.


I plan on trying to get them to invite groups we don’t usually see. I doubt I could get it to be free but if you are interested send me contact info for The Pink Pistols and I am sure your group would get an invite.

So they work for the government? I'm sorry they couldn't find honest jobs, but how does that keep them from being bold?

I'd be interested, but the PPP (Portland Pink Pistols) is in a bit of disarray just now: our long-time fearless leader had to step down for personal and economic reasons, and our three biggest organizer types besides him are having their own troubles in this economy (and one with the city, which suddenly decided that changes to his property made two owners earlier before a certain law was passed have to be undone to conform with current law, in spite of the fact that that's against the law; it's cost him $12k so far and no end in sight).

 

[G-Lexington]

>>>That’s all it would be.

If there are judges and prizes, then that's NOT all it would be.

Lex

 

[Kulindahr]

>>>That’s all it would be.

If there are judges and prizes, then that's NOT all it would be.

Lex

That depends on the nature of the prizes and how they're handled. If they're more like merit badges for boy scouts, showing what a person got right, fine.

 

[G-Lexington]

The people who put on the Miss Pretty Pretty tournament will be the first to insist that it isn't about the prizes and trophies, but about making the little girls feel good about themselves. At which point, I'd say "Then get rid of the prizes and trophies."

Lex

 

[Kulindahr]

The people who put on the Miss Pretty Pretty tournament will be the first to insist that it isn't about the prizes and trophies, but about making the little girls feel good about themselves. At which point, I'd say "Then get rid of the prizes and trophies."

Lex

There shouldn't be any trophies in the first place. The only prizes should be ribbons awarded to anyone who earns them, ribbons covering all the different things one needs to get right to do drag well.

In the spirit of the event, make them hair ribbons.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

And you think its appropriate to do that when there are kids around?
Gay or straight, you just shouldn't do those things in public.

and even if there are no kids around, how exactly does simulating shoving a cock down your throat help the community? oh right it doesnt.

OK, what are you talking about?

 

[jrock6014]

I think it in nature isn't kid friendly. I don't think anyone that isn't of legal age should be pressured into any sexual decisions which includes decisions on their sexuality. Its just my opinion... Maybe its just because I would enjoy it more if it was more adult...

 

[Kulindahr]

I think it in nature isn't kid friendly. I don't think anyone that isn't of legal age should be pressured into any sexual decisions which includes decisions on their sexuality. Its just my opinion... Maybe its just because I would enjoy it more if it was more adult...

What pressure?

PRIDE should be like a carnival with a GLBT flavor. A kid should feel more pressure to buy cotton candy than to make any decisions about sexuality.

 

[TickTockMan]

Quite honestly, I think I was pretty clear with my reasoning right off the bat.

Pride Day is the one day the gay community shouldn't have to apologize for being who we are and the one day where we're doing it all for us. We're always expected to do what we do in private so we don't upset granny.

But I DO think that young kids of 10 do need adults to shield them a bit from the very mean-spiried outside world.

Reading more of your comments... it seems like you're trying too hard to see both sides. I don't think I'm ever able to do that.

I've stopped going for the most part to Pride Events because they've become boring. They used to be a celebration of sexuality and now they're a celebration of diversity. All that means is that the small minority that gay people are is getting lost in a sea of well-meaning straight people who come to point at the queers but get upset when they start acting like queers.

(and as far as you saying you didn't attack me, it may be not how you meant it but it's how it came off with your 'oh yeah, well you go to sex parties' comment which kinda felt like you were saying that since I have sex I should also be in support of 10 year olds having a drag contest... which I'm still not... I think it's an awful idea.)

I can’t stand biased or inconsistent people, which everyone has and is. It is probably my biggest pet peeve after not getting refills quickly at restaurants for drinks. You have no idea how hard I try to see everything from all sides. It drives even me nuts at times, but the benefits can be great.



My point in bringing up the sex parties was not to say they are wrong, but to say that the bigots feel the same way about those parties as they do about drag in general and kids interacting with queer adults in any way.

Part of your reply was people will make a big deal about it and it could even go national. My point was those people that make it a big deal are usually not taken seriously. At least by the majority any more.



Now with that said, the board decided to change up how everything is done next year. The current President just wants a lot of paid entertainers, so as of now it wont really be that interactive with attendees on a stage for really any reason. That may change though.

 

[TickTockMan]

So they work for the government? I'm sorry they couldn't find honest jobs, but how does that keep them from being bold?

I'd be interested, but the PPP (Portland Pink Pistols) is in a bit of disarray just now: our long-time fearless leader had to step down for personal and economic reasons, and our three biggest organizer types besides him are having their own troubles in this economy (and one with the city, which suddenly decided that changes to his property made two owners earlier before a certain law was passed have to be undone to conform with current law, in spite of the fact that that's against the law; it's cost him $12k so far and no end in sight).

I don’t think they want to stick out to much. I don’t know how it works, but not including 2009, none of us was on the board. The members of the board then did not do/keep paper work that the board is required to have by state, county and city law. It is thought if the IRS audited the non profit that the non profit would be shut down. On top of that some of these people are well known around here. I think there may be some personal embarrassment if the non profit gets pegged with anything while they serve on the board of it. I also just think they like it low key and non wild. Its something we talked about a bit tonight


As for the Portland Pink Pistols keep in mind this is planning for August, 7th 2010. If you or the Portland Pink Pistols wanted in, there is time to organize on your end while we do the same.

To be honest though I don’t know how the others feel about guns, but I know I would take issue if they didn’t allow your group a booth. Anyways I think different ideas being shown is a great thing for PRIDE events.

 

[TickTockMan]

There shouldn't be any trophies in the first place. The only prizes should be ribbons awarded to anyone who earns them, ribbons covering all the different things one needs to get right to do drag well.

In the spirit of the event, make them hair ribbons.

As I wrote in post 90 it doesn’t matter any more right now.


I do want to say though that our event really only gets a couple 10 to 13 year olds. And about a dozen 16 to 20 year olds. If they got anything I am sure it would be a gag gift and all would get something. Also even if the board said okay to a drag show for kids there would be a good chance it still wouldn’t happen if the ones that asked for it didn’t show up on the day of PRIDE. Even vendors that pay to attend don’t show up quite a bit.

 

[TickTockMan]

I think it in nature isn't kid friendly. I don't think anyone that isn't of legal age should be pressured into any sexual decisions which includes decisions on their sexuality. Its just my opinion... Maybe its just because I would enjoy it more if it was more adult...

Just because a kid goes to a PRIDE event doesn't mean anyone is trying to change them in any way.