Our Schools or our System... WHY

[bankside]

Again, science is not a liberal conspiracy. Just because teacher's associations have the balls to stand up to Intelligent Design charlatans does not make them marxists.

And, jayhawk, perhaps school systems should not be treating anyone as a product.

 

[Benvolio]

.??................

 

[altlover85]

Re: Our Schools

No. If your focus is on how bad Americans are, you should not be surprised if a few students learn that it is ok to kill them.

Maybe I should have been clearer. I don't feel that I was taught that the US was bad. What I feel I was taught was that the US has made mistakes, just like other countries. We aren't perfect and I don't think it's realistic to expect a country to be that way.

 

[JayHawk]

Again, science is not a liberal conspiracy. Just because teacher's associations have the balls to stand up to Intelligent Design charlatans does not make them marxists.

And, jayhawk, perhaps school systems should not be treating anyone as a product.

Maybe they should not but our school systems were envisioned to create a middle class, workers, and thus have been run like a manufacturing line from inception. Very rarely is independent critical thought encouraged until college and there often times it is simply wrote training. Dependent upon field of study.

So perhaps you are correct but you would have to change hundreds of years of culture to get away from "training citizens" as part and parcel of our school system. Why do you think over history SO many paradigm altering changes and innovations have come from people who left the system of education and struck out on their own path?

 

[Benvolio]

Re: Our Schools

Maybe I should have been clearer. I don't feel that I was taught that the US was bad. What I feel I was taught was that the US has made mistakes, just like other countries. We aren't perfect and I don't think it's realistic to expect a country to be that way.

The question is, what are they now being taught. Were these kids taught that America is all about enslaving blacks, persecuting the Indians, the immigrants, with huge numbers of poor, polluted rivers and air, etc? Liberals pride themselves in seeing all the negatives about America, as opposed to those simpletons who think America is good.

 

[JayHawk]

Re: Our Schools

The question is, what are they now being taught. Were these kids taught that America is all about enslaving blacks, persecuting the Indians, the immigrants, with huge numbers of poor, polluted rivers and air, etc? Liberals pride themselves in seeing all the negatives about America, as opposed to those simpletons who think America is good.

Or in context, Talibangelicals wanna see all the positives and ignore anything we did that was considered ignorant or misconceived in our past thus dooming us to repeat such mistakes. They also want to ignore science and inject mystical magician theory into creation. SO it is understandable that the two groups wont see eye to eye. One fails to see failures and the other often fails to acknowledge the unique greatness in such a historical system of governance.

Both ignoring the other is the problem these days... hysterical allegiance to a cause versus rational thought.

 

[Benvolio]

Re: Our Schools

Or in context, Talibangelicals wanna see all the positives and ignore anything we did that was considered ignorant or misconceived in our past thus dooming us to repeat such mistakes. They also want to ignore science and inject mystical magician theory into creation. SO it is understandable that the two groups wont see eye to eye. One fails to see failures and the other often fails to acknowledge the unique greatness in such a historical system of governance.

Both ignoring the other is the problem these days... hysterical allegiance to a cause versus rational thought.

Do you really think these kids in Cambridge public schools were taught and influenced by televangelists? If not, your tit for tat is irrelevant.

 

[JayHawk]

The discussion is about all school and has nothing to do with specific individuals.

But if that is your game and the ball is over the net.... Do you think Laughner and Holmes were taught in the greater midwest via liberal hate groups posing as teachers? What about Lanza in fiercely conservative Connecticut? Granted CT is a blue on a national scale but this is a place that put up Lieberman AFTER he stood staunchly with conservative ideas and GWB and after living there I can tell you rampant liberal they are not.

If that is not the case then I believe your tits are tattered. You of course will make some statement about how liberals are pervasive everywhere but the demographics dont bear that out.

 

[TX-Beau]

Do you really think these kids in Cambridge public schools were taught and influenced by televangelists? If not, your tit for tat is irrelevant.

See I don't believe you are a lawyer because I've never seen a lawyer come out of a legitimate law school with such a shocking lack of grasp on logic and such a willingness to be so willfully self-deceptive.

 

[csb999]

Violent Crime Rate Continues Two Decade Fall, Says FBI
Ronald Bailey|Oct. 30, 2012 2:19 pm
The Washington Post is reporting today that the latest Federal Bureau of Investigation figures show that the U.S. violent crime has continued to fall:
Government figures released two weeks ago said that violent crime has fallen by 65 percent since 1993....

Our schools must change now immediately to address this horrible increase in terrorism and gun violence . Obviously the FBI is a hotbed of left liberals lying through their teeth , and obviously the half-trillion spent on Homeland Security does nothing at all .

 

[Rolyo85]

Re: Our Schools

The question is, what are they now being taught. Were these kids taught that America is all about enslaving blacks, persecuting the Indians, the immigrants, with huge numbers of poor, polluted rivers and air, etc? Liberals pride themselves in seeing all the negatives about America, as opposed to those simpletons who think America is good.

Please tell me which of these is untrue.

I am still in college, and communicate with Freshmen who have just come out of high school. None of them have been indoctrinated in anything, frankly. The focus in school is mostly on sciences, not on history - an all but ignored subject.

 

[rareboy]

By the way, some info that has been put out there is that the younger one really started to suck in school, getting failing or near failing grades. This, as much as anything else may have created a sense of alienation and resentment.

It also seems that even family members were worried about his older brother's influence.

http://boston.com/metrodesk/2013/04...-immigrants/AGztkXv4Y9b6sfAsVzcDQO/story.html

I suspect it is just about what I described above. A strong sociopathic personality taking over the weaker and the younger brother acting out of a personal sense of frustration and impotence. With the pretext of a 'cause' giving these two the outlet for their inability to cope with their own failure to make it in the west.

So, as usual Benvolio, your theories aren't worth a bucket of warm spit.

 

[Centexfarmer]

Re: Our Schools

Do you really think these kids in Cambridge public schools were taught and influenced by televangelists? If not, your tit for tat is irrelevant.

Dude! Stop bogarting that crack pipe you're smoking and pass it this way!

The only "ideology" out here in America that is more detrimental than the stupid lies that we're force fed everyday, doesn't come from "Liberal" or "Conservative" sources.

It comes from Corporate Media, that wants every American to believe that it's "us" versus "them."

We are them, and they are us.

When tragedy strikes we're all comfortable having a scape goat or someone else to "blame" for our troubles in the world.

"It's God's Will" is a common refrain that I hear often.

So let's blame God.

And when we're not blaming God, or giving him some "divine" Credit for his mercy-less intervention, we blame what we perceive to be "out-siders;" Immigrants, God-Less-Sodomites, Muslims, Non Christians, and Liberals.

*which many on the right will have you believe are all one in the same.

Welcome to Center Right America my friend!

Clearly NOT the "Age of Enlightenment" that helped to found our Nation.

I've personally never been a fan of Sinclair Lewis, but one of my favorite quotes comes from him:

When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag, and carrying the Cross.

What's amazing?

I grew up in "the south," born and raised in Texas, went to public schools, grew up in a fiercely Evangelical Environment, and I'm still able (for lack of a better term) to call BULLSHIT when I see it, here it, or read it.

A "Texas Liberal?"

Only by the "arm chair" lazy fucks who find it easier to dismiss those who aren't wrapped in the American Flag, and embracing a Bible.

To them who've read this far, my apologies for not keeping this within a two second sound bite, and for being "coherent."

Next time I'll try using smaller words, and no links to support my positions.

 

[Benvolio]

Re: Our Schools

Please tell me which of these is untrue.

I am still in college, and communicate with Freshmen who have just come out of high school. None of them have been indoctrinated in anything, frankly. The focus in school is mostly on sciences, not on history - an all but ignored subject.

This from someone who has so often taunted us with his obsessive focus on slavery and the Native Americans, with never a good word about Americans.

 

[Centexfarmer]

Re: Our Schools

This from someone who has so often taunted us with his obsessive focus on slavery and the Native Americans, with never a good word about Americans.

Yes it's difficult for "immigrants," regardless of which part of the world that they migrated to America from, to truly understand what it means to be an American.

 

[chrisrobin]

Re: Our Schools

Our schools and teachers, being liberal do like to focus on the negatives about America: slavery, the Indians, the evil rich, the poor etc. it makes the teachers feel superior, but it teaches a very negative view of Americans.

Our schools and teachers, being liberal - sweeping generalization - FAIL
Focus on negatives - if the negatives are not taught, does that mean they don't exist? - FAIL
Evil rich? Hardly. Another sweeping generality - FAIL
What makes teachers feel superior is presenting an objective interpretation of history. - FAIL

 

[chrisrobin]

By the way, some info that has been put out there is that the younger one really started to suck in school, getting failing or near failing grades. This, as much as anything else may have created a sense of alienation and resentment.

It also seems that even family members were worried about his older brother's influence.

http://boston.com/metrodesk/2013/04...-immigrants/AGztkXv4Y9b6sfAsVzcDQO/story.html

I suspect it is just about what I described above. A strong sociopathic personality taking over the weaker and the younger brother acting out of a personal sense of frustration and impotence. With the pretext of a 'cause' giving these two the outlet for their inability to cope with their own failure to make it in the west.

So, as usual Benvolio, your theories aren't worth a bucket of warm spit.

So, as usual Benvolio, your theories aren't worth a bucket of warm [STRIKE]spit[/STRIKE] excrement.

 

[chance1]

so many theories so little training to make them any better than a guess

i find it interesting how some propose their "theory" with certainty

it's not our schools ........... which is the "basis" for this thread

raining in PTown

 

[Rolyo85]

Re: Our Schools

This from someone who has so often taunted us with his obsessive focus on slavery and the Native Americans, with never a good word about Americans.

You didn't answer my question. Which of these is untrue?

And Americans are great bottoms There, a good word

 

[JayHawk]

WHOOOOOAAAAAA!!!! Nellly

it appears we have had a severe

Probably my own fault as I didnt spell out clearly the thread intent. Hell I thought ya'll would get it.

So let me try again.

Blaming SCHOOLS was a red herring and meant to sound ludicrous. There are many things wrong with our schools but fomenting a violent youth is not really one of them. hell they cant even get passing grades and we are to assume they can change the grain of society.... shiot....

I thought others might fill in the blanks and false reasoning that I had left out... with their own pet project for blame.

Whether it be guns, video games, movies, evil lefties, evil righties or fucking king tut the root of the problem is society and how we have evolved into a group of separate people instead of a family, then a village and then a city and then a state and so on.... we are all in our separate worlds these days.

there are a few books on the matter of societal influence on youth and the outcomes.

Iron John is one examining mens issues and the other is Boys Adrift.

In Iron John it is explained through a critical analysis of a a Grimm Fairy tale. That book holds a lot of truth to me. Mostly from my own life and through leading young men and watching them grow. Men have a need to belong and be accepted. Since our society moved to industry and working in abstract it is harder and harder for the dad to demonstrate that he does something of value. If he is present at all. Role models are almost non-existent in young-men's lives because of the fears driven by everything from pedophilia to corrupt influence. it is saddening and sickening.

Adrift hits more of a parenting angle with a focus on the psychology of the young male mind but again blames societal change for the problem. he offers decent methods to change course.

The problem for me is we are losing half our countries most precious assets. There is zero mystery in why most bizarre acts of aggression are perpetrated by young men that are predominantly white. Although for some similar and some different you could argue the black youth has been destroying itself for the last five decades.


That is kinda what I wanted to discuss, society and its effect on our youth NOT predisposed political postions that have been posted ad nauseum.


But go forth and prosper I wont change the course of the thread if you all dont want to change.