People Who Claim Bisexuals Are Not Part of the Gay Community

[Romantico]

Re: People Who Claim Bisexuals Are Not Part of the

It doesn't make sense to say that you "NEED" the gay community, especially when there is a bisexual community. Why not further that? Politics, for instance aside, these sexuality based groups are first and foremost groups of people with like sexuality. If for no other reason than that, shouldn't there be a distinction? Yes there should.

This is where we disagree. I see the bisexuality community as the gay community. Its all the same. (GLBT) Guess you don't see us all in the same group, but we are. My point is, because NOW that I am with a woman and may someday marry her a lot of people assume I should live a heterosexual life and turn my back on the gay community because it will no longer serve me. I say thats BULLSHIT! Because I am bi I could easily be on the opposite side of all this and be with a man. To separate and start a BI ONLY community is a slap in the face to the GLBT community who has been there for me and fought for me. Playing it the safe and easy way is not always the right way. Sometimes it may be easier but to me, it's not right.

Love it or hate it, WE ARE ALL PART OF THE SAME COMMUNITY and there is no changing that. It's sad that you feel this way. Are you embarrassed that bisexuals are part of the GLBT group? I'm just curious. Anyway, for me I NEED the gay community. I feel more accepted and comfortable around gay people than heterosexual people. Gay people don't judge me like straight people do. I'm lucky to have a GF who also has embraced the GLBT community. I think the GLBT has also done a FANTASTIC job educating young people on issues such as tolerance and safe sex. Gay/straight alliances in high schools and universities have also been credited to the GLBT community. Anyway, I think we may agree to disagree on this but this is my opinion.

 

[subobj]

Re: People Who Claim Bisexuals Are Not Part of the

Great discussion, all.

It raises the question, though, of what is "our" community? For me, I guess "non-publically-straight-identified" is a kludgey but more accurate way of putting it. Given that definition, the only bi or gay people I have an issue with are those who actively persecute OR turn a blind eye to persecution of this community.

As for whether those people are more likely to be gay or bi, who knows? I think some of the most vehement anti-gay crusaders are probably gay as can be.

 

[stebeng]

Re: People Who Claim Bisexuals Are Not Part of the

As a man living with a man and woman involved in a "three," I am, by definition, bisexual.

Coulda knocked me over with a feather when I finally realized what was going on with me.

I had relationships with women in high school & college, although the first woman I fell in love and slept with was coincidentally the first person I came out to as gay. Was she trying to convert or rescue me? I don't think so. I think we were merely in love and she was really torn up when I said I had to pursue my full life, men as well as women. That's a long story there...

There was another woman with whom I'm still best friends today. She's divorced with a grown son...her father asked her, "Why didn't you ever marry [me]?" She said, "Dad, he's gay!" He said, "So, he always treated you right...did you give up on him too soon?" (She and I still laugh about that...her Dad's a crusty critter, but very loving).

Finally, I moved to Cali in search of the Gay American dream and got my eyes opened, my heart broken and my life altered substantially by the epidemic in the 80s and 90s.

Now, I'm with a couple. I met the man online and the woman was introduced to me soon thereafter, and we all hit it off, much to my surprise.

I considered myself a part of the gay community for 20 years before this. I had always been involved in things...hell, I've even done drag on stage. But the point is, I still have to explain *everything* to people. Yes, I love her. Yes, I love him. NO, I don't want to take him away (one of his fears)...and no, I don't tolerate her to make this work.

I have to deal with his fears, her fears, the pressure from the outside world and this weird sense of "who the hell ARE you?" from the gay community at large. My friends got the message early: get on board or get out. This is my life, these are my loves and you either get it or you don't get me. I didn't ever have to say that in any words, but the message was clear, as it's always been, because we (my circle) are a collection of gay, bi, straight, tranny and all sorts of people. We haven't worked this hard to come across some *new* thing for people to point, stare, and say, "Oh, now, THAT's too far."

Thank God my Mom is cool and her Mom is warming up. His Mom...jury's still out. She doesn't know anything, ergo, I respect his privacy and live in the closet. THAT is hard for me after being comfortably out all of my adult life.

Why aren't we having the conversation about a borderless community. I know I live in rarified air (mostly cuz I don't give flying f**K what people think. If they don't like my life....buh bye.) But I feel NO division from my straight family or my friends who are family. There is no separation.

When we spent over 10 years burying friends, lovers, sisters/brothers & pals together, it sort of bonded us forever. You can't go through that sort of thing and then not feel extremely condescending toward the pettiness of minor divisions based on class, sexuality or race. (by the way, I'm in an interracial three....just to make it interesting. and there are children AND grandchildren)

It's a great life. I wouldn't trade it.

Don't trade yours. It's too valuable to let some "group" or "clique" tell you what's what. Be yourself, know yourself, take responsibility for your own success and happiness and have fun.

 

[Romantico]

Re: People Who Claim Bisexuals Are Not Part of the

I think its safe to say we are all different. This is what makes us unique. There are those who see things as black and white only. Straight or gay and thats it. I say, BORING! Imagine a world where everyone was the same. This is why I HATE labels. Labels separate us and encourages us to discriminate. I have found there are many types of straights,gays, and bisexuals. I don't see myself as "more straight leaning" or "more gay leaning". I have my days where I obsess over European motorcycles, talk to my guy friends about hot girls, watch straight porn and look at girly magazines, watch a Steve McQueen movie and wish I was him, and follow some sports. Then again I also have days where I go shopping and buy beauty products, look at gay magazines and my Cosmo and girl magazines, check out guys, talk about guys to my girl friends and gay friends, watch old MGM musicals, and take part in various activities in the gay community. I don't enjoy sex more with one gender over the other. Both are incredible and I could not choose one sex over the other. I have days where I see nothing gay in me at all and others have said this to me as well. Then again without a doubt, I have days where I am certain that I am probably more gay than any queen on this forum. Why hell, I even tell friends that my GF is the man in the relationship and she tells her friends that I am her little bitch (this has actually become my nickname ) so, we are all very different and its interesting to see how many different bisexuals there are here. I also believe in a monogamous relationship and I have said many times here that I am convinced that my bisexuality has made me more of an honest person.

Stebeng and Reverb285, welcome to JUB!!!

 

[reverb285]

Re: People Who Claim Bisexuals Are Not Part of the

Are you embarrassed that bisexuals are part of the GLBT group?

Embarrassed is not what I would say. I'm more curious...as to the reasoning such a merge is pushed as hard as it is and honestly slightly resentful of the whole GLBT or more recently, GLBTQ (are more being added?) concept itself. It just doesn't seem to make any more logical sense than lumping in the straight community or lumping the black community with the latino or asian community, for instance. The desire to see similarities between communities should not be overshadowed by the similarities within a group that form the basis of their being called what they are called in the first place, imnsho.

This is why I HATE labels. Labels separate us and encourages us to discriminate.

You say that you hate labels because they separate and encourage us to discriminate but it's discrimination that makes it possible to see that one person is like or unlike the next. I'm more concerned with unfair discrimination, and it's not always unfair and unjustified.

 

[Romantico]

Re: People Who Claim Bisexuals Are Not Part of the

Well, again I think we'll have to agree to disagree. The merge is nothing new. I think at times bisexuals are judged by both heterosexuals and homosexuals. I have lost friends in the gay community because in short, they were biphobic. When I was with men they welcomed me with open arms. When I was with women they were down right mean. The same happened to me with straight people. Only difference is I expected more tolerance from the few gay friends I had. I'm glad today that my friends (both gay and straight) accept me for who I am.

Like I pointed out before I need the gay community. Tell me, is there a reason why you feel bisexuals should be excluded from the gay community (Not sure, but is that what you are saying?) I mean,we like transgendered people have every right to be included. I'm just a little surprised. I have never met anyone who feels we should be "kicked out of the club"and start our own group.

You wrote:

"Embarrassed is not what I would say. I'm more curious...as to the reasoning such a merge is pushed as hard as it is and honestly slightly resentful of the whole GLBT or more recently, GLBTQ (are more being added?) concept itself. It just doesn't seem to make any more logical sense than lumping in the straight community or lumping the black community with the latino or asian community, for instance."

Who's doing this pushing you talk of? Why would the straight community be lumped in with the GLBT? How does race come in to all this? I don't see your point. Let me ask you this. How would the gay community benefit having bisexuals removed and making it an EXCLUSIVE GAYS ONLY group? Man, I feel sorry for the teen age girls or boys who know they are not gay but also know they are not straight. Sounds like you feel the Gay community should just turn their backs on those who are different. What if a 13 year old boy believes he is actually a woman and the Gay community turns their back on him? A gay only community not only sounds like an elite club full of snobs but goes against everything the GLBT community is about and stands for.

 

[reverb285]

Re: People Who Claim Bisexuals Are Not Part of the

"When I was with women they were down right mean".

Well, there was no reason for that. I believe you should be able to date, but all the same, I don't think they should have been obligated to tolerate what they don't like. So perhaps the separation was for the best - my whole point.

"Not sure, but is that what you are saying"?

I'm saying that a distinction isn't the worst thing in the world.

"How does race come in to all this"?

It was to serve as an analogy.

"How would the gay community benefit having bisexuals removed and making it an EXCLUSIVE GAYS ONLY group?"

All groups benefit from distinction. What would be the point of calling it the gay community, if it's not consisting of gay people? As a black person, I don't think a white person is part of the black community for no other reason than their being white. It's not to be taken as a slight necessarily.

"Man, I feel sorry for the teen age girls or boys who know they are not gay but also know they are not straight".

Why? Isn't this highlighting a bisexual community issue?

"Sounds like you feel the Gay community should just turn their backs on those who are different".

I think it's unreasonable and offensive to hold up the gay community as the refuge for any and everything that can be seen as unorthodox.

 

[Romantico]

Re: People Who Claim Bisexuals Are Not Part of the

I think the gay community is stronger with the bisexuals and the transgendered. You see bisexuality as not having anything in common with the gay community or lifestyle so you dismiss it. Thats where I think you are wrong. Ask any bisexual and he will tell you that he feels a more closer connection with the GLBT than the heterosexual community. Same goes with transgendered.

I just went to Google and tried to look something up and came across pages amongst pages of bisexuals being part of the gay community. I couldn't find what I was looking for but literally every page includes bisexuals into the community. I couldn't even find an apposing view point to compare with yours to use as some reference. Like I mentioned earlier, the idea is so foreign to me I can't even fully grasp it. I see no benefit or purpose to exclude bisexuals and would still be curious to hear your reasons on why you feel we should be excluded. What are your feelings towards bisexuals? Maybe if I knew if you had issues with bisexuality I would understand your view more.

 

[reverb285]

Re: People Who Claim Bisexuals Are Not Part of the

Well, I think the analogies I presented should have helped make my point clearer.

 

[Romantico]

Re: People Who Claim Bisexuals Are Not Part of the

Crystal. Welcome to the Bisexual forum.

 

[ejbonk]

Re: People Who Claim Bisexuals Are Not Part of the

ok. Huh,What where We Talking About here? I'm confused. Can We back the bus up and put all that in laymen terms,you two.

 

[Romantico]

Re: People Who Claim Bisexuals Are Not Part of the

I was thinking the exact same thing. I don't feel like dancing and I don't mince words. As far as I can make, bisexuals should NOT be part of the gay community. We should have own our bisexuals only community. As for reasons? You'll have to ask Reverb285.

 

[ejbonk]

Re: People Who Claim Bisexuals Are Not Part of the

I was thinking the exact same thing. I don't feel like dancing and I don't mince words. As far as I can make, bisexuals should NOT be part of the gay community. We should have own our bisexuals only community. As for reasons? You'll have to ask Reverb285.

I thought We did have our own Community,It's just built inside of the Larger Gay Community. Simply,Because We share common causes and issues. It had been that way for a very long time since the Stonewall Riots started the Movement for Gay Civil Rights. NOT SPECIAL RIGHTS.

I do not see the need to seperate ourselves from the larger GLBT Community.

As I said United We Stand, Divided We Shall Truely Fail.

 

[Romantico]

Re: People Who Claim Bisexuals Are Not Part of the

I agree 100%. I'm curious to hear the reasons on why anyone think bisexuals should be removed from the GLBT community. (would it be called the GLT community or just the GL community or do lesbians have to be kicked out as well? I mean, by this sort of logic lesbians should be out on their own for the same reasons us Bi's should, yes?) Makes no sense and goes against everything the GLBT community stands for.

 

[ejbonk]

Re: People Who Claim Bisexuals Are Not Part of the

I agree 100%. I'm curious to hear the reasons on why anyone think bisexuals should be removed from the GLBT community. (would it be called the GLT community or just the GL community or do lesbians have to be kicked out as well? I mean, by this sort of logic lesbians should be out on their own for the same reasons us Bi's should, yes?) Makes no sense and goes against everything the GLBT community stands for.

Well,At least We agree on this. Just not about how to go about it. But,That is an Entirely different Geo-Political Thread and We do not need to get in to that here.

 

[reverb285]

Re: People Who Claim Bisexuals Are Not Part of the

"Crystal"

Great. I was beginning to wonder what was confusing and radical about the idea of different and separate groups (a fact further reinforced by their different names) being perceived as such. I am very much part of the larger human community, it could be said. But, I wouldn't consider adding every other alphabet under the sun to the acronym (what's that - GLBTQ....XYZ?) for that reason. No, that would be absurd.

 

[Romantico]

Re: People Who Claim Bisexuals Are Not Part of the

I think your dislike towards bisexuals is what's crystal clear. I always find it interesting that people who despise a group can't seem to get enough of them. Right wing conservatives who hate gay people seem to talk about them 24/7. This is a bisexual forum. A brand new member spending so much time in a forum on a group he clearly has issues with seems to be a waste in my opinion.

Maybe you feel we should still have white only Restaurants, special sections in public places, and separate water fountains. After all you said you were "beginning to wonder what was confusing and radical about the idea of different and separate groups". I am very surprised to hear you, a black man, think this way. You still haven't told me what good would come from separating bisexuals from the GLBT. I thank God the majority does not subscribe to such backwards thinking. I myself am opposed to any type of discrimination wheather it be race,religion,politics, or sexual orientation. I had to keep checking my calendar while reading your post. This IS 2008, yes? Just making sure.

 

[reverb285]

Re: People Who Claim Bisexuals Are Not Part of the

No, it wasn't reading and replying to a thread which appeared to be about a viewpoint that I posses, that was a waste of time. It was coming back to see this highly emotional "reply" that contained enough spin to make one dizzy. If you find it difficult to carry on a dialog with a person with more intellect than emotion, just say so. I get the impression that any offering short of an invitation to hold hands and sing the Barney theme, could be distorted by you as "hate", "prejudice" or better, some inordinate obsession with your sexual orientation.

Now this will be my final comment on the issue - bringing my total posts on this thread (all of which were responses to remarks on my comments) to a WHOPPING seven. (whew!) That's assuming some moderator doesn't overreact and misrepresent as well and read my posts as "flames".

 

[Romantico]

Re: People Who Claim Bisexuals Are Not Part of the

Why can't you just say what you feel? Why do you have to use all the slippery talk? What exactly are you afraid of? You STILL have not answered my question on how removing bisexuals from the GLBT will benefit the community? You also have not answered my simple question, what are your thoughts of bisexuality? In order for me to understand and try to see your view point I have to first understand your views regarding the subject. I think your being unfair and judgmental towards bisexuals and if you already have a prejudice towards us aren't yo gonna be a tad bias?

Since you have to dance around the question and play these games, why not just spill it. I don't play mind games very well and don't tolerate drama. You have 2 posters now ( and probably more than that who is reading) who are confused at what your trying to say because you keep disguising it with all this fluff. Stop trying to sound like a college text book and tell us what your thinking.

If I am wrong and misreading your post, tell me. This happens from time to time and if I am taking what your saying out of context I will gladly apologize and thank you for clearing things up. Explain to me what I am missing. Spin? Yeah, keep telling yourself that.

 

[ejbonk]

Re: People Who Claim Bisexuals Are Not Part of the

Reverb, you will note that no moderators have touched your posts. That said, it does seem like you are being contrary for the sake of being contrary. You have presented your opinion, and explained it to some degree. Since you have not substantiated it with any compelling or external support or evidence, I have to conclude that it is just that, your opinion.

You are, of course free and welcome to express yourself here, but again, at this point, it seems as if you are just being deliberately obtuse.

Romantico, while perhaps overreacting a bit, has presented some considered responses and posed several questions, nearly all of which you have ignored. While I agree his tone may be a bit much, he has taken you to task on this and so far you have had nothing but a rather patronizing "because I said so" response.

Neither of you are in violation of our terms. However, I do think that you (Reverb) have struck a nerve with Romantico, and the ensuing confrontation has digressed away from the real purpose of this forum, and why Romantico started the thread in the first place: The intelligent, respectful discussion and debate of issues pertinent to the GLBT community.

You can piss and moan about that nomenclature of the group all you like, but this is a gay website run by (primarily) gay men and we, in what we believe to be the best interest of the GAY community have created this BISEXUAL discussion forum because we understand that we have far more in common than less. It is our similarities that give us strength, both as individuals and as a race.

Arguing with one another will accomplish nothing. I would ask you both, if you continue this discussion, to do so in such a way as to expose and consider information, and not just to bicker.

HEAR!HEAR! Excellent post Sir. Good Show,Jolly Good Show Sir. hear! hear!