Persue a friend?

[mikemartin]

OK, for a little background.

I have a friend who I have been spending a lot of time with lately. Often we are alone, often drinking, often having heart to heart conversations about everything from sex to beating off. As far as we both claim, we are both straight. I am bi curious, and I have a feeling he is as well.

We've been naked around each other(everything from streaking to nude slip and slide, both with just the two of us), so we are both comfortable in that respect. I don't know if I should make a move or not. Often after we have a few drinks, he does tend to start touching me(not sexually, just more than normal) and puts his arm around me if we are in a car together and such. Even sober if we are sitting next to each other and our legs or arms end up touching neither of us make an attempt to move them.

When the topic of homosexuality has come up we agreed it was wrong(note, wrong doesn't mean "won't do it"), but as far as marriage and such, we agreed that it wouldn't hurt anyone and should be allowed.

I value our friendship as it is more than getting in his pants and having the friendship break over it.

If it was suggested to make a move, how should I go about it? Not sure what I want to do or how far I want it to go.

 

[G-Lexington]

>>>When the topic of homosexuality has come up we agreed it was wrong(note, wrong doesn't mean "won't do it")...

Sorry, you completely lost me here.

Lex

 

[mikemartin]

Premarital sex is wrong.

Neither of us are virgins.

Smoking pot is wrong, yet both of us have done so in the past.

Just because something is not right(and I recognize it as so) doesn't mean I won't do it.

 

[luminum]

You still have yet to define why you think any of those things are 'wrong'. What are you, bound by some conservative religion or political ideology?

Eating cows and pigs is wrong. But I eat hamburgers and porkchops all the time. Get it?

 

[mikemartin]

I guess wrong by the morals we were brought up with(both of us attended 12+ years of catholic school, neither of us are religious by any means)

We have watched porn together several times, not beat off to it(yet). We go to my other house together often, next time we do I'll be sure we beat off in the same room(he hinted at it last time, I wasn't up to it, sprained ankle and badly burned)

We were at his house once watching something on HBO and there was a segment on Jeremy Jordan and Jason Hawke and a few other gay pornstars. We watched them(could have FF through them as it was on TIVO) and he commented on the black dude's dick.

 

[luminum]

So you feel it's wrong, but you aren't religious, so it's only supported by indoctrination and not by faith in anything.

Look, if you can't actually think about it and explain to yourself why it's wrong (i.e. because it makes baby Jesus cry and it makes you sick even thinking about doing it) then drop the indoctrination and just do it.

I don't believe keeping kosher is important because there's no reason for me to believe so, even if I were brought up with it.

If you can both drop the pretense of this nebulous 'wrong' thing that you can't even explain why you think it's wrong beyond "I was brought up that way" then you'll both find it a lot easier to get to what you want--i.e. to explore your sexuality without these hang ups.

 

[G-Lexington]

Yeah, I don't do things I think are "wrong". I was brought up to think certain things were "wrong", but I decided later on that I didn't believe that they were. So I stopped considering them wrong.

There are things I consider wrong that I think I might do under certain circumstances. I think murder is wrong, but I'd kill a man to protect my loved ones. I think stealing is wrong, but I'd steal if I were absolutely starving. That said, this doesn't appear to be the case with you. Unless the pot smoking and sex was done under duress.

I realize we're not giving you any advice on your question, but I'm utterly confused by an on/off morality.

Lex

 

[mikemartin]

We were together alone again this weekend.

Decided a slip and slide would be fun. What would be better, naked of course.

I'm still sore. Didn't do much more than beat off together with bubble bath on a big piece of plastic, but we both had fun.

 

[backpacker]

First off, time for you to re exam your morals and stop the self hate. Once you accept that there is nothing wrong with being gay, you should have a talk with him to let him know your new feelings. If he seems accepting of your new opinion, then you should come out to him and see where it leads.

PS - you may want to check out emptyclosets.com as that site is geared to more problems like yours.

 

[UC3543]

I'm surprised some of you aren't addressing his question. He isn't asking if gay sex is wrong, he's asking if he should try to have sex in some form or another with his good friend.

mikemartin - I would next time you are watching a porn, just start jacking off try to finish before he does, then help him finish and see how he reacts. If you both like that, then do it again but offer to suck him



People do things every day all day long that they think are wrong. They may try not too, they may not want to, but humans are flawed. I too believe sex outside of marriage is wrong - but I've done it, I too believe that homsexual sex is wrong - but I've done it. I believe that lying, stealing are wrong, but I've done those things too.

 

[thephoenix]

Call me crazy, but I don't think whether or not they think it is wrong is the issue that was brought to the table. The subject is whether or not to pursue a friend. It's good that you guys are addressing the self hate thing which isn't fun for anyone, but he doesn't seem concerned about that in my opinion.

mikemartin- Friends and sex is always a trippy subject. Some people can make it work; most can't. I have certain guidelines when it comes to friends and sex. It's all about evaluating how you feel about that friend. If he is a good friend, your best friend then you need to think long and hard about what can come of sex/fooling around with him. Ultimately it is about risk and what's at stake. If he's just a casual friend who won't really be missed then sure make a move if you feel you have to. But if he is someone you want in your life and will sorely miss then you need to evaluate your feelings. Trust me, if he is precious to you then fooling around for the sake of it is a bad, bad idea. But if you feel you have serious feelings then you need to think on it and if you want to jump on it and have the courage, then tell him. Personally, friends you have feelings for should lead to a relationship (unless they honestly can move on from your come on) or you just suck it up and have the friendship. But that's just my opinion.

 

[bluedragon4]

Is the guy straight? If so why would you make a move?

 

[rareboy]

Premarital sex is wrong.

Neither of us are virgins.

Smoking pot is wrong, yet both of us have done so in the past.

Just because something is not right(and I recognize it as so) doesn't mean I won't do it.

Oh boy. So here you are; one of those children who have their entire ethos defined for them by society....apparently not able to make the distinction between unwise and morally wrong. You are confusing one with the other.

I'm picturing you and your friend when you're both 35, getting together for a nude slip and slide......years of pent up homoerotic feelings sublimated in a sport for ten year old kids.

Goodness, we have a lot of work to do here.

1. Find a fuck buddy somewhere else unless you want to destroy a friendship.

2. Spend some time trying to figure out why you think homosexuality is wrong. It isn't. It is a natural state of being.

3. I'd suggest you find some outlet to release your inhibitions in the company of others or you are well on your way to being one of those selfhating homos who sneak out to get a blowjob in the park while your wife and kids think you're running an errand to pick up ice cream.

4. I wish I could suggest that you spark a fatty, but you'd probably just get all paranoid on thc.

5. Explore other cultures and belief systems. You sound like you have a very limited education and little world experience. It is still a big place. Get out an live in it.

6. Stop making snap judgements. If you are discussing things with friends or even casual aquaintances, don't make the conversation an echo chamber. Learn to effectively and dispassionately (or passionately) argue the other side of an issue.

 

[mikemartin]

Note I said I was curious. I have no interest in a relationship with a dude. If that is your thing, congratulations, but it isn't mine. I just want to try some things out. I am not going to push the issue, but if things happen, they happen.

I don't want a random "fuck buddy". I want someone to share the experience with, someone who I know I won't catch god knows what(please don't verse me on the fact that straight sex is just as dangerous as homosexual sex, I'm quite aware) or won't ever see that person again. I went there when I lost my virginity, and I kinda wish I'd have waited until it was someone I kinda knew, as we do have something of each other, and are apart.

Believe me, we are both free thinkers, but do go with society on a lot of things if we so choose.

I do value our friendship more than anything. He is one of those friends that you just get a handful in your lifetime. We can get talking and hours pass and we don't know it, hell it was 4 when I came in this morning. I drive out to my work(I work PT, no one is there during most of the day) to have drinks with him at lunch(he works next door)

I just don't want to be 10 years down the road, married, kids and we realize we could have done this long ago.

 

[3nipples]

I value our friendship as it is more than getting in his pants and having the friendship break over it.

If it was suggested to make a move, how should I go about it? Not sure what I want to do or how far I want it to go.

Given both of your attitudes towards being gay and the value you place on his friendship and your apparent inability to communicate honestly about this to each other, my advice is to stay away from doing anything sexual with him.You're just putting your friendship at risk.

 

[thephoenix]

Note I said I was curious. I have no interest in a relationship with a dude. If that is your thing, congratulations, but it isn't mine. I just want to try some things out. I am not going to push the issue, but if things happen, they happen./QUOTE]



Then you need to seriously consider the ramifications and what is at stake. I get wanting to share the experience with someone you're comfortable with, I really do. But is the experience really worth the cost? I was in the same boat as you and I'll be honest, it really was amazing to be that close to someone I cared about. But the fallout wasn't great. I was left feeling used as my friend was uncomfortable with what we had done. We weren't what you would call "right" for quite some time. We're back to normal, but our night together still lingers like a cloud. Of course we are different people so maybe it won't be like that with you guys. I don't regret it and my friend says he doesn't either, but I just wish I had had someone to tell me to stop and think.

 

[m59583]

NO, no no no no NO!

Let me ask you something. Are you really looking at this from HIS point of view, or from your own?

You want to keep a good friendship with him? Don't do ANYTHING with him other than the occasional J/O session. You cannot and absolutely SHOULD NOT suggest anything else until he opens up to you. First and foremost, I argue this point simply because he is a great friend of yours.

But here's what gets me. If he's been a great friend of yours for so long, and you want to experiment with him sexually---guess what? You're interested in a relationship with him, and the less you get of him the more you're going to want him. Trust me, I've been there, and even though it was with a straight guy, I know full well how this type of logical and emotional process propagates.

You're probably not ready to ask him how he feels, but I think in the future you're going to get more attached to him than you think. Spending long hours talking and wanting to fool around sexually are the beginning stages of both physical and emotional attachment. Can you not put 1 and 1 together?

At some point in the future, you're going to have to ask him. I hope things go well for you, I really do. I'd rather hear the good news of a potential relationship. But if things do not fare well, you may end up having a severe emotional collapse, and the fallout from it may end up contaminating your relationships with both family and friends. Of course, this could be years down the road. The more casual your relationship with him, the longer it will take. The more serious you are with him, the sooner it may occur.

Again, I just share my experience, and this is only what I think.
I wish you the best.

P.S. -----You might be one of those folks who just wants to "fool around with somebody he knows." This is not necessarily a bad thing, but you also have to wonder---why would you want to take the chance with him in the first place if he's such a good friend? You cannot mix fleeting casual sex with a dedicated lifelong friend. It does not work that way.

 

[rareboy]

Note I said I was curious. I have no interest in a relationship with a dude. If that is your thing, congratulations, but it isn't mine. I just want to try some things out. I am not going to push the issue, but if things happen, they happen.

One assumes you hail from the most populous state in your country, Denial.

Pffffft. You're going to have a long and painful road coming to terms with being gay or bisexual at this rate and I see you potentially doing great damage to some poor girl and future children if you don't get your head straightened out on this.

C'mon, ask yourself.... Why curious? Why do you even want to try some things out? Really now, why this friend? Why the chippy attitude with 'congratulations' to those of us who actually have caring and full relationships with other guys?

...and why are you coming to a group of gay and bi guys for advice?

I'm thinking you're not emotionally mature enough for any sexual relationship with boys or girls at this stage in your life. Definitely do not persue (sic) your friend because you're only going to fuck him up worse too.

You have two choices. You can practice repression and sublimation, or you can do some healthy self examination. Good luck.

 

[hubbellgardner]

^ very well put post, as usual, rareboy

 

[Chosen]

Oh boy. So here you are; one of those children who have their entire ethos defined for them by society....

I think someones a hypocrite.

See now your following, in your suggestion that his is in denial about accepting who he is, boundaries and catergories set by society... We all know catergories are set to create order and control, and in many cases come in useful when someone decides they hate a specific attribute present in everyday society - especially with the whole abuse/bullying side.

Now why would he ask a group of bi/gay guys about a homosexual act... the answer eldues me, im sorry. I think that the fact this is an advice section on a primarily 'all things gay' website/forum may have something to do with this. He came for advice on a situation, instead you feel the need to bully him because what... to you he falls into a stereotype, oh thats right. If only there was a way to experience being a part of a stereotype, where a majority disagrees with your actions... oh wait, homosexuality? Exactly.
I don't know whether you knowingly intended to single him out for his actions or suggested actions, but thats exactly what you did. In a way i would see as bullying. Im all for freedom of speech, but when people preach for equal rights for homosexuality, which is a stereotype by which many disagree with, and then decide they can judge others who participate in actions which they many not agree with... i smell hypocricy.

I would say too that your not really a, how can i put this, 'sound' person to recieve advice from because you clearly seem to be preaching about one thing to a group of people but then doing that to another group. Also you are extremely rude, quite arrogant and even though this is a forum your words carry a tone.

Lifes about living, i would never constrain myself personally to fit into a single or a majority of stereotypes purposley(although i obviously do fall into some, when judged by others), i think that you wanting to experiemnt and try new things is natural. Maybe you should talk with your friend about your curiousity, not mentioning you'd like to experiment with him at first - see how it goes from there. Theres no point in ruining a perfectly healthy friendship.