PhD's

[Hot White Trash]

My long-time boyfriend is about six months away from completing his PhD in literary theory, and it has been an exhausting but exciting journey (for both of us). The sad part is that even after he completes the degree, the job prospects are, to be blunt, abysmal.

He has had a 4.0 since high school, has attended only top universities, has considerable college teaching experience, and (for what it's worth) is also a minority. Yet we're still probably looking at a difficult time to find a job. Much of this stems from huge cutbacks at universities. Funds for academics--particularly in the humanities--are disappearing in the wake of Bush II and the current recession. The tenure system is breaking down, and universities are largely steering toward adjunct professorships. In short it is not a pretty picture for academics or future academics.

Before he started the PhD program, one of his masters professors told him that he would make an amazing professor. She also said if he could conceive of anything professionally satisfying that did not involve obtaining a PhD, he should do that instead. I'm certainly not going to tell you not to get the degree, but be careful and informed about choosing to do it. Getting a PhD is no easy feat, but if you're interested in teaching at a university, getting a PhD is really just the beginning.

He should look overseas.

 

[MoltenRock III]

He should look overseas.

Agreed. It's why I live in Singapore 9+ months of the year. Asia economy is booming right now and the US' suck.

 

[blackbeltninja]

Now in all honesty a PhD in science isn't going to be that great at landing you a job either. If you get a PhD your either A) attempting to land a career in the teacher/research; both of which require you to do many post-docs with low pay.

This is unfortunately very true - grants aren't as generous, nor as numerous, as they were a decade ago and we're all scraping the barrel for money to fund projects and the posts necessary to sustain them.

I'm sure this is why so many PhDs I know end up whoring themselves to industry, ironically the same industry we despise and spit on day to day as we earn our PhDs.

-d-

 

[Lefty]

I don't want to rile anyone and I admire education. I would never denigrate education or the judicious application(s) of it.

My life experience has subjected me to many incredibly individuals with a vast
diversity in their fields of learning.

Being somewhat less gifted, ordained, awarded, breast fed or otherwise been
qualified for those lofty apses or the apsides, my experience are far more mundane.

To wit:
The higher the degree, the greater the expert. The greater the expert, the stronger the opinion and the more it is sought. But, the experts and the exspurts conjoined to bring this world where it is today.
-----------------------
I am scared, very scared.......now, please, you discuss. I am called elsewhere

my cartoons...uh I mean the evening news is on.

 

[neruda]

pjlikesporn has possibly the best reply.
I certainly concur.

You sound like a passionate sort of guy and your area of interest could fit you into a good market niche in my considered opinion.

And oh I'm a geographer, drifted into US academia from India and still keeping afloat!! (I had a 3.8 in my Masters and a sort of equivalent in my undergrad from India...)

 

[LilBit]

This really isn't an ideal time to start a Ph.D. in that field. While it's a somewhat trendy field at the moment, the academic job market is abysmal, especially in the humanities. There's a glut of unemployed and underemployed Ph.D.s competing for a ridiculously small number of jobs, graduate programs are admitting fewer and fewer students, and funding is drying up rapidly. I'd wait a few years before applying. In the meantime, get an interesting and challenging job that would make you stand out as a candidate, do some preliminary research to give you an idea of what you want to do with your dissertation, and do some thorough research to find a school whose faculty share your interests and are well-respected in the field.

You also may want to consider doing a Master's before going into the Ph.D. That would give you a better feel for the demands of grad school, and the experience of writing an M.A. thesis is good practice for the dissertation.

 

[Telstra]

Just a silly questions:

does anyone know anybody go through life studying at different schools until they are old age ?
i want to hear that sort of story

 

[LilBit]

Just a silly questions:

does anyone know anybody go through life studying at different schools until they are old age ?
i want to hear that sort of story

I don't know about OLD age, but I know people who have been in school until their 50's. But they usually took a break between undergrad and grad school and worked outside of academia for 10-20 years.

 

[pausanias_usa]

I had mine by 30, didn't use it for a long time (in fact went into an entirely different field), but when I sort of hit a mid-life crisis, it was my way out to something that paid and still interests me. Being published is a rush, and I still get something out now and then, but I'm not in a publish or perish situation (thank god).

Do it early if you can. I'm a Yank but have a British doctorate -- it was a very fulfilling experience, if hard, isolated, and quite dispiriting at times. You can go from a B.A. to a Ph.D. in Britain without the master's (and if you fail, you might get the master's as a boobie prize).

The travel during breaks was the best part -- do not knock cheap student flights to anywhere in Europe 8').
Especially when you are in your horn-dog 20s <oh the memories!>.

 

[altlover85]

I am asking because if I decide to go for a Master's in something less than practical, I'd probably just end up doing a PhD because there isn't much else I could do with just the Master's. I hope that explains my reasoning and why I'm asking the question in the first place.

 

[MoltenRock III]

I am asking because if I decide to go for a Master's in something less than practical, I'd probably just end up doing a PhD because there isn't much else I could do with just the Master's. I hope that explains my reasoning and why I'm asking the question in the first place.

Ah. Understood. It was obviously easier for me to decide, since I was in the MBA program. Having an MBA pays for itself pretty quickly, and I come from a family of advanced degreed parents and siblings, so quite a bit of pressure there to conform. Both my parents are/were university professors with their PhDs, and my father has two PhDs. My brother has his Juris doctorate, and another brother has his PhD. My sis has her master's degree and is teaching junior high school kids.

 

[altlover85]

It's very cool that you come from such an accomplished family, but I can totally understand how that would pressure you a lot.

 

[MoltenRock III]

It's very cool that you come from such an accomplished family, but I can totally understand how that would pressure you a lot.

Even worse or being pressured more is having kids. While my parents are super cool and fine with me being gay, and my mother goes so far as to try to hook me up, they are relentless on asking when I'm going to settle down with a nice guy, and give them some more grandbabies.

My grandmother tells me I need to settle down and marry a woman, and give her great-grandchildren before she dies. After I tell her, "but gran, I'm gay" to which she says, "you know in my day you boys just got married and slept with whomever you wanted, but you got married, it was much easier!" LOL!

In Asia for the most part it's not about where you put your dick, but about carrying on the family name, and providing offspring.

 

[altlover85]

I've never understood why anyone would want to pressure you into having kids if you don't want to have them. I would think it wouldn't be conducive to raising a happy child if you always knew you didn't want them in the first place. I'm not saying that's the case for you, but I think it's the case for some people, gay or straight.

 

[neruda]

I don't know about OLD age, but I know people who have been in school until their 50's. But they usually took a break between undergrad and grad school and worked outside of academia for 10-20 years.

Me for instance!

 

[MoltenRock III]

I've never understood why anyone would want to pressure you into having kids if you don't want to have them. I would think it wouldn't be conducive to raising a happy child if you always knew you didn't want them in the first place. I'm not saying that's the case for you, but I think it's the case for some people, gay or straight.

Oh, they mean well. But because their path included a large family, it's hard for them to "get" me not particularly wanting kids. Now, if by some tragic event my nieces or nephews became parent-less, I would be more than happy and willing to raise the children. I just don't think or feel they are in my future if its my choice. Now if I meet a boy/guy that really, really, wants them, then I'd be ok with it to start our own family. I'm not 100% opposed just don't feel I'm a "father" type person. I'm too greedy with my time still.

 

[altlover85]

Oh, I understand why they feel that way, I just don't think pressuring people to have kids is a good idea in most cases.

 

[altlover85]

cgymike, I did further clarify what I wanted to get my Ph.D in (either media studies with a concentration in queer theory or vice-versa) further on down the thread. Thank you for your advice though. It was helpful.

 

[neditesjamais]

I am asking because if I decide to go for a Master's in something less than practical, I'd probably just end up doing a PhD because there isn't much else I could do with just the Master's. I hope that explains my reasoning and why I'm asking the question in the first place.

I did my MA in an area that I was interested in, had a bit of experience in, and thought would be very practical. Within a year of starting, I realized it was interesting, but too constraining--not really as challenging as I'd thought. (Yes, I'm in the liberal arts.)

I immediately started "supplementing" those studies with something equally or more interesting and challenging. Worked nicely. I just morphed into a PhD program (I got swept away in the moment!) after "meeting the requirements" for the MA.

Then, after a couple more years, I had done/studied/achieved everything I wanted to do in the PhD and the rest was going to be "meet this requirement, take this class, jump through this silly hoop." Wasn't worth it to me. I also figured out that having that qualification would (at that time) put me out of the market that I really wanted to work in. So, I took my knowledge and experiences and my MA and walked away. Happy. No regrets.

Some others I knew who were in the PhD program for primarily pragmatic reasons (if I get this degree, I'll get this kind of job, make this kind of money) were seriously unhappy people (even more than the rest of us). Those who were doing it because they were driven by some internal, unstoppable force seemed to be happy, but not necessarily people. I guess I didn't fully understand or belong to either group, although I experienced moments identifying with each. Wow. Imagine being bi!

If I were doing it again, I'd "interview" others in the program(s) to find out what they're getting/not getting. And press to be put in touch with at least one or two who left the program, to find out what they experienced that lead to that decision.

Yes, you can decide to leave if it's not for you. I say, give it a try. You might accidentally learn something

ned