Physical vs. emotional sexuality, again

[hanshansen]

I'm setting up my own thread on this old topic because I don't really want to vent about my problems in the guise of dispensing advice to someone else.

Brief background: bi leaning towards gay, late 20s, some social retardation and inhibitions. Details are on another thread.

So since I started posting here, say over the last three weeks, I would say I have made a lot of progress 'coming out' to myself. I am comfortable posting to this website, I am much more comfortable than I ever was to explore the possibilities in my mind. I have also unburdened myself about some social issues and am far more comfortable around other people than I have been in ages.

But, a common thread running through the advice I've been getting here is that I need to sort out and understand my own feelings before I can begin thinking of entering serious relationships (of an intimate nature) with other people. And these feelings leave me more bewildered than ever. Or at least they have taken a turn I really didn't expect. I'll try to be candid about the facts without analysing them too much.

I used to come to this website regularly to get off. In fact I was scared I was getting addicted to the porn, it was eating up a lot of my free time. Then (I don't remember how) I got hooked by the human interest of one particular thread in this forum, started posting to it and eventually talked more about myself. In the meantime, the interest in the jack-off material on the site has shrunk to virtually zero. There is something that bothers me about using a site where I now 'recognise people', so to speak, and have talked about issues that matter to me, to jack off.

Instead, what has happened is that I'm increasingly jacking off to naked women and straight porn, far more regularly than I ever did in the past. I'm learning what attracts me in women and what doesn't. I'm increasingly turned on by the idea of having sex with women, even in forms (getting head) that never interested me in the past. I fantasize about having these one-night stands with beautiful women who know nothing about me.

I'm still attracted to guys, but something has changed. Last night I felt a mild urge to revisit some of my 'familiar haunts' in terms of websites that I used to go to to get off looking at hot guys, and I did get an initial rise out of that, but then I would think things like 'this guy looks like X who I would never dream of jacking off to' or 'this guy's chest is actually a lot like mine' and that would put an end to that. I ended up getting rid of the physical urges at a site with naked women.

It is as if I'm increasingly objectifying women sexually, but am less able to do that with guys than in the past. I still suspect my attraction to guys has deeper physical roots, but I no longer know what that means in any concrete sense. What is as strong as ever, if not stronger, is the emotional attraction to guys. Part of me fantasises about living with a guy who understands me and loves me and that thought makes me feel a pressure in my chest that I don't get thinking about getting married and having kids.

So this is what is now keeping me awake at nights (am posting this after a largely sleepless night) - any comments appreciated.

 

[ladygrey]

Hmm.....

well, buddy, you've got a LOT going on in your head right now.

Ultimently, I don't really have answer about whether there is such a thing as emotional and physical sexuality. I've always assumed that they interlink.

So, I can't help you out there. But I do know some things about understanding self and the internal world. Which, in better terms, is how you feel about yourself and what you believe about your own idenity.

When we are uncertain about who we are or when we see ourselves in a negative way, it is common to create to "alternative idenities". In other words, we pretend to be something we are not. We do this externally, but we also do it internally. We imagine what it would be like to be this other idenity. We begin to see ourselves as part of this new idenity. It creates a new sense of self esteem and self worth...temporarly.

But evenutaly, our athuniec self (who we are that we still don't like or want to be) gets really unhappy. We then feel trapped and confused about we truly are. Are we the self we'd like to be that makes us feel better out our life or are we the self that has always been?

The answer is that its not really important. LOL

What matters more than who we are, is how we feel about ourselves.

Until you've started to devloped some postive self image (More than three weeks more), you won't be able to truly get your own sexuality.

And you may find that it matters less and less what your sexuality is, hm?

So, learn to love yourself. And then, I think everything else will start to make as much sense as anything ever does.

Love,
Ladygrey

 

[Orlandude]

Don't know your age group so it's hard to determine "where" you may be in your head. Much of what you have discussed is pretty normal stuff and nothing to be alarmed about. You seem to be going through a sexual identity phase where you are not sure who you are. That can be a bit disarming but nothing to lose sleep over. Try forgetting about it all temporarily. Forget the websites, forget the feelings and just "go with the flow" with yourself. Sometimes we need to step away from something in order to really see what it is. You've heard the expression "can't see the forest for the trees". Same principle. Getting in touch with yourself is key. You are likely feeling the way you are because you have been out of touch with YOU...and obscessed with what might be....even using the computer to replace real-life experiences or a "fix" for what you don't understand. Let it go for awhile, do what you feel, enjoy life and your friends, don't be a slave to the computer or allow it to replace those meaningful things like REAL contact with others... and, above all, as was already pointed out to you...love yourself. Once you get in touch with yourself, that which you now don't understand will appear obvious to you. Really. It will work itself out so don't beat yourself up about it. It's OK to "go with the flow" for awhile and allow yourself that time.

 

[tallguy297]

Hi Hans,

Well mate... I understand this thread after the progress you made on the other....

My advice....stop forcing it. Stop tyring to solve a lifetimes problems in days or weeks. Stop trying to rush to the end point of the journey...because if you do not only will you miss the signs and lessons...you will miss the real ending.

You have carried around a lifetime....10 - 20 years (?) of doubt, concern and worry about who you are, what you are and what it means for you. It is unrealistic mate to expect that after 3 weeks you will have the answers. You have a lifetime of denial and hidden desires to reconcile and come to terms with.

I know this because after 33 years of lying and 2 of being honest with myself and those I care for....I finally know myself. But it took a while.

Its normal to operate at both physical and emotional level...and have them travel in different directions. Well all have incredibly strong emotional relationships with people that we would never consider making love to ...and then we fantasize deeply about physical acts with others we couldnt care for....its human nature.

You need to stop torturing yourself and analysing every thought you have about sex and what it means to you. Its incredibly hard because you have started to work this part of you out, but not every thought holds part of the answer mate. lay off the porn, lay off the fantasy. Let your mind reset. Distract yourself for a week or two...let the dust settle on what you have learned and let your natural thoughts and feelings return. You'll be amazed how your own mind can provide the answers...if you let it.

Good luck mate...we're here with you all the way....but you've got to give yourself a chance to find your own answers. Take it slow...dont miss the signs!

 

[ladygrey]

^
Great advice from everyone.

 

[luminum]

I think you're worried because you feel like you have to be one way or another. But if you've accepted that you're bi instead of imposing upon yourself that you're goingot be a bi guy who leans more towards gay, then take the pressure off. You don't have to own up to anyone for liking one sex more than the other, or even for switching or going through cycles of sexual preference.

So relax and just go with the flow of your sexual psyche.

 

[hanshansen]

Thanks for all those comments.

I guess it was kind of a ridiculously obvious point that three weeks is a really short time … It feels like a lot longer, because everything feels so very different to a month ago.

Tallguy and Orlandude, thank you very much for all of that, it all makes sense. I think I had given myself the idea that with a concerted effort I could clear things up inside myself in a relatively short space of time, and then the long and hard process would be one of making any necessary changes in my life. But as you say, that is completely unrealistic after half a lifetime hiding from the problem and avoiding people and trying not to think too hard about any of this. I will try to lay off the porn and thinking about sex and to distract myself. I will try to be patient.

Luminum, a large part of the anxiety comes from the fear that until my feelings settle down and become more predictable, it will be impossible for me to form deep and happy relationships. What I have read elsewhere on this board has tended to reinforce that fear. Going through cycles and going with the flow is fine if other people don’t expect stability and certainty.

 

[luminum]

Luminum, a large part of the anxiety comes from the fear that until my feelings settle down and become more predictable, it will be impossible for me to form deep and happy relationships. What I have read elsewhere on this board has tended to reinforce that fear. Going through cycles and going with the flow is fine if other people don’t expect stability and certainty.

It's my personal belief that you go through cycles until you find the person who makes you want to stay with them, cycles or not. So you're young and you'll look at people, but you'll find someone (because you're not exclusive in those cycles anyway) and what you'll feel for them is different from what you fantasize about sexually. You'llc are about them, find you enjoy spending time with them, grow to love them, become enamored and aroused by them and want to have a physical relationship with them.

There's something different about sexuality and arousal in a relationship than what we think about or jack off to on the internet or in our heads--the difference between love and lust. Just keep make sure you don't rule anything out even if you're going through cycles and you'll probably be able to find someone and form a stable relationship, no matter what sex they are or what sex you're feeling more sexually attracted towards.

 

[hanshansen]

It's my personal belief that you go through cycles until you find the person who makes you want to stay with them, cycles or not. So you're young and you'll look at people, but you'll find someone (because you're not exclusive in those cycles anyway) and what you'll feel for them is different from what you fantasize about sexually. You'llc are about them, find you enjoy spending time with them, grow to love them, become enamored and aroused by them and want to have a physical relationship with them.

There's something different about sexuality and arousal in a relationship than what we think about or jack off to on the internet or in our heads--the difference between love and lust. Just keep make sure you don't rule anything out even if you're going through cycles and you'll probably be able to find someone and form a stable relationship, no matter what sex they are or what sex you're feeling more sexually attracted towards.

Luminum, I'll take your word for it, presumably you are talking from experience, and I don't have any to contradict it (says a near 28-year-old to a 20-year-old). I know what friendships and caring and loyalty are like, I have some idea of what sex is like, I haven't got a clue what it is like for them to mix and form something deeper. Pretty sad, huh. We'll see.

Just one question - what did you mean when you said "you're not exclusive in those cycles anyway"?

And talking about ages - Tallguy, are you saying your years of denial began at age 1??

 

[luminum]

Luminum, I'll take your word for it, presumably you are talking from experience, and I don't have any to contradict it (says a near 28-year-old to a 20-year-old). I know what friendships and caring and loyalty are like, I have some idea of what sex is like, I haven't got a clue what it is like for them to mix and form something deeper. Pretty sad, huh. We'll see.

Just one question - what did you mean when you said "you're not exclusive in those cycles anyway"?

And talking about ages - Tallguy, are you saying your years of denial began at age 1??

I don't speak from first hand experience, only second hand experience or just rationality. I have friends who are very concerned about why they're not just one of the three or one of the two sexualities, when in fact, I find sexuality to be a gradient with generalized terms to describe the three extremes (homo, ambi/bi, and hetero). I tell them not to worry about, because why should they? Since when did they ever have to register and adhere to one sexual feeling for the rest of their lives? If they find the person they want, it will work out, no matter what other people they're attracted to.

For myself, I'm attracted to all sorts of guys: older guys, bears, twinks, average joes, ripped guys, etc. And I vary in how attracted I am to one at almost any time. But if I was involved ina relationship, the fact that they hit any of those things I like is enough and I'd love them enough that I'd still love them and want to be with them even if on Wednesday I find that ripped guy on the beach really good looking--because I still love the person I'm with and they fit something I find attractive and I still find them attractive physcially and otherwise.

What I mean by not being exclusive in those cycles is that you may lean heavily toward being 'gay' or 'straight' at some point in time, but the natureof being bisexual is that you're always both, just in different amounts. So while you may really be digging guys, it makes sense that if a really great girl strolled into your life, you'd be able to feel things for her. Likewise, you may be really into girls right now, but logically, since you're bisexual, if a great guy who sweeps you away waltzes in right now, you'd still be able to feel things for him.

Just because you're mainly into girls right now doesn't mean that you're only interested in girls, otherwise you wouldn't be a bisexual, you'd just be someone who switches automatically from gay to straight. Being bisexual must mean that no matter what, part of you still feels something for both sexes.

 

[hanshansen]

I just realised something (as I was lying in bed and preparing to get a good night's sleep) - part of what I am going through is payback for the survival mechanisms I have built up over the years. I have 'trained' myself not to feel anything physical for guys I know and am friends with, and I have trained myself not to get too close emotionally to attractive women.

I had my first and only physical gay 'crush' in my early teens, on another guy in junior high school. He was very good looking and sexually self-confident and I was burning with sexual tension that entire school year. Of course he was as straight as they come, and I knew it. Once we parted ways and my feelings cooled off as a result, I must have told myself that I would never allow that to happen again, because it never has. Since then, I have also had two friendships that I can recall which eventually (on my part) became more intense and ended up involving some physical attraction. The two guys in question were 'sensitive' or vulnerable in one way or another, but again I have no reason to believe that they are not straight. So I forced myself to get over the physical feelings because I realised the friendship was more important to me. It was the right decision in the sense that the friendships survived and improved as a result. I can't even say that I was responding to societal pressures, it never even came to that, the problem was that I realised I was chasing a pipe dream.

On the other side, I flirted with a few girls when I was younger and then got scared and backed away. Naturally, they were hurt. I felt very guilty about this and swore I would never get myself into that kind of situation again. As I mentioned on another thread, it did, about half a year ago, in a kind of Lost in Translation situation. That was wonderful, the interest was reciprocated (though nothing physical happened), no-one got hurt, and it lasted a week before we flew back home to our separate continents. In retrospect that week was a catalyst that made me realise I would eventually have to take steps to get out of this equilibrium of sorts.

But, those steps are not going to be easy. It seems I am dealing with very deep habits and equally deep fears. The concrete idea of either of those defensive walls coming down makes my stomach turn.

Sorry, Luminum, none of that deals with your thoughtful reply. I need to get these things written down and out of my brain to get at least six hours sleep. Please bear with me, I guess this is my version of therapy.

 

[luminum]

That's perfectly fine. I'm here to help if I can. You're not obligated to engage my comments. The important thing is that you get what you want written down here, since it's your thread.

I'll just say that it's reasonable that the thought of taking down those walls would make you feel sick. They were put up for a reason--to protect yourself from emotional danger and guilt. Just take it one step at a time.

 

[ladygrey]

You know, kiddo

I think you're getting the idea now.

It's not at all about having the answers, it's about learning to accept the questions.

What I mean is simply this:

We are often so focused on finding out exactly who we are and look to "answers" for help. But the reality is that our growth and journey comes not from what we know, but what we don't know.

In other words, the times I've learned the most about who I am have been the times were I allowed myself not to know, but to experince. I knew I was gay because I liked guys, but I still question that idenity. Not because I'm unsure about it or because I'm uncomfortable with it, but because I've learned that my idenity shifts and moves constantly. And unless I question something, I don't learn from it.

So question everything. But accept the questions and stop looking for answers.

If you focus on the voyage of discovery, not on safe harbour at the end of it, you'll be much happier on the ocean of life.

 

[tallguy297]

Hi Hans,

And talking about ages - Tallguy, are you saying your years of denial began at age 1??

Ok...you got me! Lol. Thats probably just a little hard to remember...back to one!

I did have some experiences that I would have rather not had in my childhood that started when I was probably 7 or 8 as best I can remember...and it was a struggle since then...until I started to accept myself. So I guess its been 29 years since then and about 27 since I started to come to terms with who I am...

My point though mate...as I'm sure you understand was that as far as our awareness and conscious thought is concerned...its a lifetime.

 

[hanshansen]

Ladygrey, you know your comments at first sounded very new age ... and they still do ... but of course what you’re saying is, be willing to be surprised. I realise now there is no alternative to that – it has really hit me that I have entered (for me) totally uncharted waters.

After last night’s little revelation and a few more hours of heavy inner turbulence, I actually feel, on the whole, better. Another bit of tension has gone. One thing that is enormously comforting is that so far, this process (of me trying to open up to myself) seems, after a short period of apprehension, to be improving my ability to get along with the people who matter to me, I’m getting good (unspoken) feedback from them, they don’t seem to think I’m acting weird (or more so than usual). Today was no different. That is going to help me get through this.

Luminum, I reread what you said last night. You still haven’t totally convinced me (about the ability to make one person happy when your physical feelings go through cycles) but as I say, I’m in totally unfamiliar territory. Whatever happens, if I really like somebody I’ll do my best to treat them well.

Lastly, Tallguy, your main point did not get lost – some others you have made before have been really helpful, so I am going to continue looking out for them! Thanks.

 

[luminum]

I'll just say that when you're with someone, emotionally, no one else matters. And for me, when no one else matters emotionally, no one else matters physically.

Really, it's up to you. I view it as a measure of how much they mean to you, but that may not be the case. But I imagine that if you're with someone and they understand you and your sexuality, they won't mind that you may want to jack off to porn of the other gender or you may look at other people, so long as they know that your heart is with them. It's up to you to settle your physical attraction and your emotionally attraction when you're with someone who touches you in both ways.

But again, as with in my previous posts, the big factor to my theory is this:

When you go through your cycles of physical attraction, do you ever reach a point where you are no longer attracted to the other sex/gender? Do you reach a point where you only like one specific sex? Not one more than the other, but completely and totally just one.

 

[hanshansen]

When you go through your cycles of physical attraction, do you ever reach a point where you are no longer attracted to the other sex/gender? Do you reach a point where you only like one specific sex? Not one more than the other, but completely and totally just one.

I guess this is where my skepticism came from. Hard to say. Probably not completely and totally. But when I'm in the one state, I sort of feel like a different person than when I'm in the other state, and at the extremes of the cycle it's like I'm looking over this gulf trying to find the bridge to the other side. But even then I might suddenly get feelings of the other type when I least expect them.

But this is based on my confusing and unreliable past. Honest answer is - I don't know. Ask me again in half a year's time!

 

[hanshansen]

I apologize for reviving this thread. I know it must be incredibly tedious to read this. The reason for the continuing anxiety and questions is that I am projecting qualitatively very different feelings onto different sorts of people, things that I would dearly love to be able to feel for a single person, but there seem to be psychological blockages that make it hard to do that. And I don’t want to find myself feeling torn and confused when I actually meet someone. Anyway, in the course of reading and writing some other things I think I've gotten closer to the root of some of these blockages and I just want to expose myself to some criticism (if any is forthcoming). Are there obvious implications I'm not picking up on?

Here’s an executive summary (all the really tedious musings are further down, with the same numbering):

1. I have an emotional need to be with a gay or bi guy because I imagine that he will connect with me emotionally, and need me emotionally, in a way that a woman won’t. But I wonder if I’m not just looking for someone who has ‘been there’ in terms of sexual feelings and personal history as an easy way of connecting.
2. I am physically attracted to ‘alpha-male’ types who I don’t know but I find it very hard to feel physically attracted to guys I know. Partly this is due to long years of conditioning (as I said earlier), but it is also because I cannot imagine my friends (my template for relationships with other guys) having sexual feelings for me. I think the bridge towards physical feelings for someone I care about might be through eye contact (that doesn’t make much sense, maybe it’s clearer in the fuller version.)
3. While I have been really turned on in the past by the vicarious experience of gay sex (through porn) I have big issues with it in relation to me personally. At this stage I do not think I would enjoy it.
4. My physical feelings towards women are genuine, though I’m still not sure how deep they go. I am a lot more comfortable with the idea of having sex with a beautiful woman than a guy.
5. But, possibly with that one Lost in Translation exception, I have never had genuine emotional feelings for a woman I’ve been attracted to. This is partly for reasons I’ve already given in this thread and elsewhere, but it’s also the expectation that a woman is not going to be attracted to me physically or emotionally enough to really care about me. I think a lot of this might be notional and reflect that I don’t actually know any women my age in any depth.

Those points lead me to the following provisional conclusions:
a) I need to make (platonic) friends who I can open up to about my sex life (easier said than done). Time will tell if, after that, the asymmetric emotional attraction to gay guys persists.
b) If I get into a situation where I have a strong emotional attraction to a guy who then wants to take things further, I think I might have found a key to my physical feelings (that eye contact stuff), but I will need to be honest about wanting to take things slowly in terms of sex.
c) I need to get to know women better – that’s conditional on (a).
d) I think underlying a lot of these anxieties are physical self-esteem issues (or more generally the feeling that I lack testosterone). I really don’t know what to do about this. I have been battling these feelings by entire life. It is a fact that I am far from God’s gift to women (or men) – I’m reasonably OK with that now fully clothed, but how do you get over that when you are both naked?? At a pinch a guy who is into ‘twinks’ might like me, but what kind of woman is attracted to that kind of guy?



1. In the early mornings I have been lying awake feeling very lonely and pining for an emotional relationship with a gay or bi guy (imaginary, not actual). I guess what is going through my mind is that:
- this will be someone who instinctively understands my sexual and related emotional responses, and who can relate to my history – who I can completely unburden myself to and trust
- this will be someone who feels similarly about me, and who needs me emotionally (he will care about me even if the physical attraction isn’t that great)
- to be honest, I would feel even better with a totally gay guy than with another bi guy, because I expect him to be more committed to me. I know that this is totally hypocritical.

An obvious response to all this is that there are many reasons why people might feel an emotional bond, and there are lots of vulnerable aspects of themselves that people in intimate relationships entrust to each other. Also, straight men can identify best with the feelings and sexual histories of other straight guys, not with those of their girlfriends and wives. This is why they have friends as well as a sexual relationship. But those in happy relationships feel emotionally tied to their partners and it goes way beyond the sex. I guess in the case of gay guys I have this expectation that there is this ready-made ‘shared history’ already waiting for me. But I think I’m slowly coming to the realization that this is only true in a fairly limited way. I started identifying very deeply with some stories on this forum and then gradually discovered that the guys in question were actually very different from me in important ways, and we would probably not get on that well at all in real life.

Is it unhealthy for me to want to be needed?

2. I have difficulties harmonizing this emotional need with my physical attraction towards men. I am physically attracted to men I do not know who are unusually ‘alpha-male’ (in height, build, sexual behaviour and self-confidence, the finger-length thing, endowment), while also having an apparent ‘soft’ side. But, I am not interested in getting close to these guys.

This must be related to some physical self-esteem problems. I end up desiring (from a safe distance) what I’m not, can’t be and in some way fear. The ‘soft side’ makes it less threatening (and the soft side is also what these guys show to women they are attracted to).

I am generally not attracted to men I know (never in more than a really vague embryonic sense). When I am lying awake yearning for that special guy who I can talk to all sorts of things about and do stuff with, I have difficulties imagining the relationship progressing to a physical level (beyond hugging, leaning on shoulder etc.). I really can’t find a physical response in myself, which has been the source of a lot of anxiety. The one exception I’ve discovered is if I imagine the guy looking at me in a loving/horny/flirtatious way and me looking straight back (eye contact) – that has got me really hard and I could at least imagine the guy jacking me off.

Partly, as I’ve said earlier in this thread, this seems to be due to nearly two decades of self-conditioning. But partly it is also because I’m attracted to that part of a guy that he shows to someone he is attracted to (showing off, flirting, sexually meaningful eye contact). And of course I have never seen this in any of my friends or guys I know. It would be very unsettling, and also I can’t imagine it happening to me because I don’t consider myself attractive. I just think about my friends in a totally different way than about guys I am attracted to.

3. I have been turned on by the idea of gay sex in the past (very much so if the sex is passionate and seems to involve intimacy, eye contact etc.), but only vicariously – watching that happening and identifying with one or the other guy (generally the bottom). But as I said, I’m not keen on myself actually having sex with a guy beyond, maybe mutual jackoffs. I imagine it would be messy and painful. Also I’m afraid of being seen naked and not found attractive. If the emotional charge was really strong I could imagine both of us maybe making out and dry humping spontaneously (under the sheets in the dark).

Looks like combination of physical fear and disgust, self-esteem issues, sense of shame at identifying with the ‘bottom’, legacy of trying to distance myself from my desires (i.e. split personality).

5. As I’ve said, in the last six weeks or so, I have been much more consistently physically attracted to women than ever in the past. The only reason I can think of for this change is that I have gotten over the performance anxiety that turned me off sex with women for long stretches in earlier years (maybe because posting here has given me a bit more self-confidence?). I enjoy:
- their bodies; the idea not just of looking at them but kissing them, running my hands over them
- a certain type of beauty in terms of eyes, face etc.
- the idea of giving pleasure to them (orally, going all the way)
- the idea of letting them give pleasure to me
- the knowledge that I am enjoying all this
- the idea that it is turning them on that I am so turned on to them

How strong a role is being played by the knowledge that I am enjoying all this? Is it realistic to assume that these beautiful model types in my mind would get beyond my looks enough to let me so close to them? Could I work up similar feelings for less stunning women in real life? (All questions to myself for which answers will probably eventually emerge.)

6. But I am scared that I would feel emotionally unsatisfied and incomplete in a relationship with a woman. Basically I do not get the feelings (pressure in chest, tightness in stomach) thinking about women that I get for real or imagined gay or sexually ambiguous guys in (a). Thinking about myself in an intimate relationship with a woman gives me pleasure. Women my age are basically a closed book to me, deep down. I do not really understand how they tick. Except in my fantasies, I can’t believe that they will be attracted to me enough to care about me, let alone need me.

I know I could only in good conscience get close to a woman who knew about my sexuality and my past. To be honest, again I would prefer this to be a straight woman who was in so in love with me that she didn’t care, rather than a bi woman. I have fears that a bi woman would feel towards me, a guy, the way I feel about women at the moment, and the relationship would be dependent on the sex and my non-existent looks.

In a way, I feel much the same about beautiful women as I do about really straight guys who I don’t know. Except that I can picture myself having sex with them. And I get ‘fired up’ a bit faster by the really straight guy. And I flatter myself that the beautiful woman gets turned on by all the attention I’m lavishing on her. My emotional responses to attractive women must reflect that I don’t know women my age that well at all. These feelings might well change once I meet women who I can trust and open up to. I did pine after the girl I met overseas for a week – it was such a new experience that she seemed to like me, that she trusted me, that she was willing to talk to me about all sorts of things. Also, the degree to which I am experiencing sexual interest in women is something I’m still getting used to – I’m still unsure about how deep it goes. Time will tell I guess.

 

[luminum]

It's late, and I'm half-way through reading your new entry, but I swear to you I will respond as soon as I can after I've finished reading it. You shoudl get some sleep too, sweetie. These are obviously very tumultuous feelings you're going through. A good night's rest will give you a fresh perspective.

 

[luminum]

I do think that a lot of the issues you're going through are because of physical self-esteem issues and also the mystique of the gay relationship.

Do you have any friends who are open about sexuality and relationships? If so, that could fill that need you have of wanting to be able to share experiences or that common issue with someone else.

Gay relationships are generally the same as heterosexual relationships in that all the same stuff happens. Most gay guys have a connection through the experience of being a sexual minority and the adversity that comes with it. But that's just about as deep of a connection as adversity is. Just being a plagued minority won't get you far. And not all relationships have that, either. My first boyfriend had it 'easy' in terms of coming out to parents who totally supported him, so he didn't really understand my troubles with being in a relationship while having very unsupportive parents.

It's not wrong to be needed, because all people thrive on a sense of being important and loved, which constitutes need, or conversely means that the person isn't easily forgotten or thrown away. So there's nothing wrong with being needed.

I think you're sweating the physical stuff too much. I think that if you have a good emotional connection with someone, what you look like under the covers isn't such a big deal. Are all people shallow? No. A lot of people know that their partners aren't the ideal physical dream they've had, but in the end, most of them realize that they don't care because they like their partner for far more than that.

In fact, so long as the person isn't the exact opposite and everything they hate physically, I can't imagine any decent person turning their partner away. I don't think it matters as much as you think.

You're not alone in that the people you foind very attractive automatically get dismissed in your mind when you think about the two of you forming a physical relationship. I often find that a guy who is "out of my league" will only make me feel bad about myself if we ever did anything together, or that I would make me feel bad about myself because I don't measure up, but you never know.

Not being attracted to your friends is normal. When I came out, I was on the swim team and a lot of my teammates/friends were very attractive, but I really didn't feel attracted to them because I knew them in a different way than how I would know someone I loved or felt physically attracted to. The way I perceived them and knew them stopped any physical attraction from coming to fruition.

I think you're also afraid of missing out, or always wondering what the other side is like. And I think that will only come with time and experience. I thinkw hen you enter a gay relationship, you'll find that

a) You only connect as much as you're compatible. The 'gay experience' won't do it.
and
b) Your partner won't care so much about your physical appearance. The way they chose to be with you was partially based on how you look in clothes. How you look out of clothes isn't that different or shocking. If you can't guess how they look out of clothes, then you deserve to be surprised, right? There's not as much pressure as you think there is.
and
c) you'll know the depth of your attraction by your gut feeling. You'll know if you're only with this guy because you feel you can't get any girls or if you're with him because you like him. Some part of you will know and tell you.

In a straight relationship, you'll also know if you really can connect emotionally to a girl and if she can fulfill a good amount of what you need and what you want.

But in the end, I really just want to say that if some guy just ran into you, totally asked you on a date, and you started going out and went through a emotional and physical relationship, a lot of things would be demystified for you and a lot of your confusion would be cleared up. But that's kind of circular...

Really, though, I'd say the best thing is to be a bit confident and go for what comes your way. The ebst way to know is to make a start and then learn from it. Don't be so anayltical and afraid, just be. Go out there and find out. The only way it won't happen should be if the other person tells you. It's terrible to hold yourself back and never experience anything if there's still the chance out there that the other person wouldn't have denied you anything.

So don't limit yourself. If other people feel you're pushing the limits of what they want, then they'll let you know.