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point of going on....any atheists/agnostics Help

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Okay, I am not totally sure I know or will ever know what I believe...I find myself teetering back and forth between Christianity and agnoticism and currently consider myself agnostic. One thing that I have had a hard time coming to terms with being an agnostic is that I feel as if I have no purpose...with religion, it gives me reason for hope and for good and to live on...but without this I wonder what the point of living really is? Why do you as an agnostic choose to keep living during the sadness and pain? I feel when I am depressed I have nothing to turn to and see no reason to live sometimes... have any of you felt this and had a legitimate answer for dealing with this?

thanks
 
Re: point of going on....any atheists/agnostics He

Hello *******9. I'm a Humanist, and I got over the dependency on religion decades ago. Take a look at "The Affirmations of Humanism". Maybe you will find some encouraging new ways to look at life.
The Affirmations of Humanism:
A Statement of Principles
• We are committed to the application of reason and science to the understanding of the universe and to the solving of human problems.
• We deplore efforts to denigrate human intelligence, to seek to explain the world in supernatural terms, and to look outside nature for salvation.
• We believe that scientific discovery and technology can contribute to the betterment of human life.
• We believe in an open and pluralistic society and that democracy is the best guarantee of protecting human rights from authoritarian elites and repressive majorities.
• We are committed to the principle of the separation of church and state.
• We cultivate the arts of negotiation and compromise as a means of resolving differences and achieving mutual understanding.
• We are concerned with securing justice and fairness in society and with eliminating discrimination and intolerance.
• We believe in supporting the disadvantaged and the handicapped so that they will be able to help themselves.
• We attempt to transcend divisive parochial loyalties based on race, religion, gender, nationality, creed, class, sexual orientation, or ethnicity, and strive to work together for the common good of humanity.
• We want to protect and enhance the earth, to preserve it for future generations, and to avoid inflicting needless suffering on other species.
• We believe in enjoying life here and now and in developing our creative talents to their fullest.
• We believe in the cultivation of moral excellence.
• We respect the right to privacy. Mature adults should be allowed to fulfill their aspirations, to express their sexual preferences, to exercise reproductive freedom, to have access to comprehensive and informed health-care, and to die with dignity.
• We believe in the common moral decencies: altruism, integrity, honesty, truthfulness, responsibility. Humanist ethics is amenable to critical, rational guidance. There are normative standards that we discover together. Moral principles are tested by their consequences.
• We are deeply concerned with the moral education of our children. We want to nourish reason and compassion.
• We are engaged by the arts no less than by the sciences.
• We are citizens of the universe and are excited by discoveries still to be made in the cosmos.
• We are skeptical of untested claims to knowledge, and we are open to novel ideas and seek new departures in our thinking.
• We affirm humanism as a realistic alternative to theologies of despair and ideologies of violence and as a source of rich personal significance and genuine satisfaction in the service to others.
• We believe in optimism rather than pessimism, hope rather than despair, learning in the place of dogma, truth instead of ignorance, joy rather than guilt or sin, tolerance in the place of fear, love instead of hatred, compassion over selfishness, beauty instead of ugliness, and reason rather than blind faith or irrationality.
• We believe in the fullest realization of the best and noblest that we are capable of as human beings.
 
Re: point of going on....any atheists/agnostics He

I find that it is about enjoying life and people and all of the small things that you look forward to--I have never understood the need to believe in a all powerful being to be able to live your life and be happy---A God, who is looking out for you when good things happen and teaching you when the bad inevitablely occurs.
 
Re: point of going on....any atheists/agnostics He

 
Re: point of going on....any atheists/agnostics He

I'm a Humanist, and I got over the dependency on religion decades ago. Take a look at "The Affirmations of Humanism". Maybe you will find some encouraging new ways to look at life.

I'm also a Humanist - the ideas in the Humanist manifesto you gave are something that maybe should make all those that think religion is the only answer stop and think.
 
Re: point of going on....any atheists/agnostics He

Hi there,
it's pretty hard to give a short answer to your question without sounding like a f****** philosophy professor. I am an atheist through and through and life has thrown some pretty tough shit at me - by the time I was in my early twenties I had lost both of my parents. I too struggled to find some purpose in that or all the suffering in the world etc. (although I never was that religious) until I realized that there was none. You might think that is horrible but it is actually quite liberating. And it doesn't meen that your life can't be meaningful - just look at the humanist 'manifesto' above - and that your life isn't precious or any less worth living.
I know these interlectual considerations take a while to sink in, especially if your not feeling them (yes I wrote that), so my advice to you would be to develope a certain 'mentality' (I forced myself to and it is my biggest asset to deal with whatever happens): defiance. If life throws shit at you - and yes, for no reason in the world whatsoever - tell yourself: now more than ever! (I must admit though that it helps to be a stubborn bastard like me....) After all, there is no point in giving up, too.

All the best to you

There's one image I like which sort of sums up our place in the Universe

2791011510032786982S600x600Q85.jpg


Life may have no meaning - but that's no reason to give up
 
Re: point of going on....any atheists/agnostics He

Okay, I am not totally sure I know or will ever know what I believe...I find myself teetering back and forth between Christianity and agnoticism and currently consider myself agnostic. One thing that I have had a hard time coming to terms with being an agnostic is that I feel as if I have no purpose...with religion, it gives me reason for hope and for good and to live on...but without this I wonder what the point of living really is? Why do you as an agnostic choose to keep living during the sadness and pain? I feel when I am depressed I have nothing to turn to and see no reason to live sometimes... have any of you felt this and had a legitimate answer for dealing with this?

thanks

In general, Life is its own purpose. I personally believe that our own human sentience evolved for a broader purpose, to be guardians of this world and those we share it with.

But that is not what strikes me in your post. I am concerned about "the sadness and pain", about when you are depressed and "have nothing to turn to and see no reason to live sometimes..."

Please remember that Depression is about feeling more sad than you ought to in any given situation. When your brain is supposed to be sending a signal to feel a little sad, either the wrong signal gets sent, or too much or too little. Thus we have people who seem rarely to actually feel anything, and others who often seem to feel way too much.

With depression it is helpful to think in terms of "triggers" rather than of "causes".

It is very much easier to deal with a mood disorder once you understand that you have one, and how your particular one works. While medications can work wonders, the process of finding the right one can be very troublesome, and many people with milder forms of depression find that education and self-awareness do them a world of good.

If you experience sadness and psychic pain very much or very often, it may actually be a body-based, physical disorder.

-D
 
Re: point of going on....any atheists/agnostics He

In general, Life is its own purpose. I personally believe that our own human sentience evolved for a broader purpose, to be guardians of this world and those we share it with.

But that is not what strikes me in your post. I am concerned about "the sadness and pain", about when you are depressed and "have nothing to turn to and see no reason to live sometimes..."

Please remember that Depression is about feeling more sad than you ought to in any given situation. When your brain is supposed to be sending a signal to feel a little sad, either the wrong signal gets sent, or too much or too little. Thus we have people who seem rarely to actually feel anything, and others who often seem to feel way too much.

With depression it is helpful to think in terms of "triggers" rather than of "causes".

It is very much easier to deal with a mood disorder once you understand that you have one, and how your particular one works. While medications can work wonders, the process of finding the right one can be very troublesome, and many people with milder forms of depression find that education and self-awareness do them a world of good.

If you experience sadness and psychic pain very much or very often, it may actually be a body-based, physical disorder.

-D

Thank you for pointing this out.

There is a difference between depression and metaphysical crisis. The latter really is an intellectual process at least as much as it is an emotional readjustment. Within my own world-view, meaning is an overlay on top of the material world. Meaning and matter are actually disconnected. Meaning is what I bring to my experience of the material world in conversation with other people. Meaning is relational.

My metaphysics underwent a crisis when I rejected my religion, and I had to find a way to ground my experience. I found that grounding by paying greater attention to how I actually fit into the social fabric of my environment. My value is not grounded in the material substance of my body; it is grounded in my own self-valuation. If that's not enough, I don't know of anything that would add to it.
 
Re: point of going on....any atheists/agnostics He

What I can say is, basically, life is all about ups and downs and that's the way it should be 'cause without the downs we wouldn't value the ups. In order to perceive and enjoy the good, you also take the bad. Yin/Yang...

In times of sadness, you just gotta remember that better days will come. Life is in constant change and alternating between good and bad. Find goals and things you wanna do in life, find solace in the little pleasures of life (that song that always puts you in good mood, that movie you love so much, eating the breakfast you enjoy so much while watching tv...whatever little things in your everyday life that you enjoy...in times of sorrow and despair these can really help you get through it).

Here's a song that I love that talks about this, how life is always changing and even in your darkest hour a change for the better in the future will come for sure. It's called "A Change Is Gonna Come".



Lyrics:

I was born by the river in a little tent
Oh and just like the river I've been running ever since
It's been a long, a long time coming
But I know a change gonna come, oh yes it will

It's been too hard living but I'm afraid to die
Cause I don't know what's up there beyond the sky
It's been a long, a long time coming
But I know a change gonna come, oh yes it will

I go to the movie and I go downtown
Somebody keep telling me don't hang around
It's been a long, a long time coming
But I know a change gonna come, oh yes it will

Then I go to my brother
And I say brother help me please
But he winds up knocking me
Back down on my knees

Ohhhhhhhhh.....

There been times that I thought I couldn't last for long
But now I think I'm able to carry on
It's been a long, a long time coming
But I know a change gonna come, oh yes it will


(*8*)
 
Re: point of going on....any atheists/agnostics He

I find it interesting (as I have stated before) how people are so eager to turn one away from religion. I realize that many religions have failures but many people find great comfort in them. Terms like "emotional crutch" sound simplistic. I'd much rather have something to ground me emotionally than say humanism that offers no solace except that you are the ultimate being, deal with it.

Not that I'm a humanist, but that's as simplistic and inaccurate a description of humanism as the ones you complain of in relation to religion.

Many humanists find great solace in humanism.

Yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice.
 
Re: point of going on....any atheists/agnostics He

I find it interesting (as I have stated before) how people are so eager to turn one away from religion. I realize that many religions have failures but many people find great comfort in them. Terms like "emotional crutch" sound simplistic. I'd much rather have something to ground me emotionally than say humanism that offers no solace except that you are the ultimate being, deal with it.

You make a very good case for religion being more emotionally rewarding than humanism or atheism.

One issue you seem to sidestep entirely is whether it's true or not?

For me personally I'd prefer to live with an uncomfortable truth than live my life based on a comfortable lie/falsehood/unproven idea.

If you want to believe in a religion (and are not already irrevocably committed to a particular one) I'd suggest Bhudism.

I was raised in this faith - there's almost nothing I can say against it - it certainly doesn't have the nasty violence and intolerance (or homophobia) often found in Islam and Christianity. For me the only drawback (and why I left the faith) is that there is no evidence whatsoever that it is true (a feature it shares with all other religions)
 
Re: point of going on....any atheists/agnostics He

You make a very good case for religion being more emotionally rewarding than humanism or atheism.

One issue you seem to sidestep entirely is whether it's true or not?

For me personally I'd prefer to live with an uncomfortable truth than live my life based on a comfortable lie/falsehood/unproven idea.

If you want to believe in a religion (and are not already irrevocably committed to a particular one) I'd suggest Bhudism.

I was raised in this faith - there's almost nothing I can say against it - it certainly doesn't have the nasty violence and intolerance (or homophobia) often found in Islam and Christianity. For me the only drawback (and why I left the faith) is that there is no evidence whatsoever that it is true (a feature it shares with all other religions)

Then you don't know your history. Especially in China, Buddhists were famous for their corruption and for their interference in political affairs.

I would also suggest that the vast majority of Buddhists conceive of The Enlightened One as a God, praying to him and leaving him offerings, and that such a God will not hold up to your own logic any more than the God of Islam or Christianity.
 
Re: point of going on....any atheists/agnostics He

you might want to read camus's the myth of sisyphus - in it he explores what he sees as the great philosophical question - why not kill one's self.

it's a fantastic book - explores very much the idea of how we deal with the desperation and loneliness of existence without god or without totalising belief systems like communism.
 
Re: point of going on....any atheists/agnostics He

Then you don't know your history. Especially in China, Buddhists were famous for their corruption and for their interference in political affairs.

I would also suggest that the vast majority of Buddhists conceive of The Enlightened One as a God, praying to him and leaving him offerings, and that such a God will not hold up to your own logic any more than the God of Islam or Christianity.

I'm no expert in the Chinese history of Buddhism - but I do think you are confusing the religion with Confucianism - which is more a set of social and moral concepts related to both Taoist and Buddhist ideas.

Aside from corruption - I think Confucianism is a bankrupt social philosophy - as it leads to stagnant and authoritarian societies. Confucianism has been described as the drug that kept China asleep for 3,000 years.

I do think your concept of Buddha as just a "graven image" is probably not very accurate. One of the things he actually said is that people should not believe his teachings simply because he said them - but should seek their own route to Enlightenment.

Also in Buddhism there is no "God" in the sense of the one or more "all powerful" / "all knowing" being(s) of other religions - just the central concept of individual Enlightenment allowing us to escape the "wheel of life" for immortality.

The weakness of the religion is it's absence of proof. How do they know we are all re-incarnated? Also some logical issues - like if I am re-born again as a fly - how (in practical terms) do I manage to get higher up the ladder - so I'm maybe a mouse next time round? It's hard to see a fly having much opportunity to do many good deeds.

I would hasten to add that this sort of logical inconsistency is endemic in almost all religions.
 
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