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Pope declares boy's recovery a miracle...how can anyone buy into this nonsense?

Plus you might want to go talk to some Native Americans about their feelings towards the Catholic Church.

What the Church calls saint, it's entirely possible they call something else entirely.
 
TX-Beau said:
Genius - if you can't prove causation, you don't have cause and effect. You have supposition and unexplained.
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I am entirely unable to see how a person can not understand such a simple concept as this. Not to repeat myself, but I'll say it again: correlation does not equal causation. How can this possibly be lost on Kallipolis?
 
TX-Beau said:
Genius - if you can't prove causation, you don't have cause and effect. You have supposition and unexplained.

If the relic was so efficacious why didn't they drag it all over the hospital, all over the nation, CURE DISEASE EVERYWHERE.

How frikkin greedy and mean is your god - just the one?

Please.
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Transparently nor can you disprove that the cause of the recovery of the patient was the placing of the relic next to the patient beginning the process of the boy's recovery from the very time that the relic was placed on the patient's pillow.

I have already stated that we still do not know why just a few people benefit from miracles.

It could all be a matter of simple chance, even coincidence that the boy's recovery began from the moment when the relic was placed next to him.

Miraculous cures are not provable by scientific evaluation. It's that simple.

I have made my choice, and you have made yours.
 
FirmaFan said:
I am entirely unable to see how a person can not understand such a simple concept as this. Not to repeat myself, but I'll say it again: correlation does not equal causation. How can this possibly be lost on Kallipolis?
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That there is a co-relation between the relic, and the beginning of the patient's recovery process, as evidenced by the timing of the beginning of the patient's recovery from the moment the relic was placed next to the boy informs the objective person that cause, and effect are patently apparent when identifying the relic as the catalyst of the healing process.

The attending medical staff evidenced the entire process from the moment the relic was placed next to the boy, even leaving them perplexed and unable to understand such an inexplicable healing, when orthodox medical science had failed to create the result produced by the intervention of the relic.

Who would believe in a miracle, unless it happened to them?

Certainly not a militant atheist.
 
kallipolis said:
Transparently nor can you disprove that the cause of the recovery of the patient was the placing of the relic next to the patient beginning the process of the boy's recovery from the very time that the relic was placed on the patient's pillow...
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Right, digging up that tired old bone are we. I can't explain why this computer works, OH MY GOD IT'S MAGIC!!

You want to believe it's magic because that flatters your religious identity and you use the assumption of magic to justify your beliefs. So you get annoyed when people tell you that what you are in fact doing is jumping to irrational conclusions. Because that indirectly challenges the happy scenario you've built up in your head about your God.

None of which I really care about, but then you put your belief up on the table by asserting a causal - and here's the kicker - and by definition (of that term) PROVEN relationship which you simply cannot have - which you know very well. Then when you get called on that you run right back to magic and start insisting that other people assume the burden of proof for your magical claims.

It's intellectualy lazy.

I am under no obligation to prove anything. The assertion is yours, as is the claim that there is a testatble relationship,then you quibble, attempt to have it both ways, play semantic games, and then ultimately thrust the responsibility for your speculation onto me when all the above gets you nowhere.

The claims are YOURS, the proofs or lack thereof are YOUR responsibility. I have made no comment whatsoever about how or why the kid recovered.
 
AND I forgot to say - if I could prove otherwise you wouldn't believe me anyway once you decided to call something miracle.

It's a false argument that just really says shut up I'm not going to deal with anything you say. The figurative equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears.
 
TX-Beau said:
R



The claims are YOURS, the proofs or lack thereof are YOUR responsibility. I have made no comment whatsoever about how or why the kid recovered.
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Your several posts evidence your deep concern, even determined hostility that such a phenomenon should be accepted by rational people as a miracle.

The proof is evident in the boy's healing.

I have no need for further proof. But you do.
 
TX-Beau said:
AND I forgot to say - if I could prove otherwise you wouldn't believe me anyway once you decided to call something miracle.

It's a false argument that just really says shut up I'm not going to deal with anything you say. The figurative equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears.
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You again presume, and presume too much when preferring to avoid confronting the obvious that the patient began healing from the moment the relic was placed at his side.
 
LOL. No you have no proof at all. You have one article that actually only says that the Vatican decided there was the intersession of a saint (not even a saint yet actually) 8 years after the fact.

All the rest you provided for yourself. You were not in the room, no one knows when or how the kid started healing, he did not get up from his bed and dance a jig immediately free of virus. The damage the virus caused was not healed.

YOU are the one making massive assumptions and calling that fact - hence this argument.

Will you ever admit that? . Never in a million years.
 
kallipolis said:
Your several posts evidence your deep concern, even determined hostility that such a phenomenon should be accepted by rational people as a miracle.

The proof is evident in the boy's healing.

I have no need for further proof. But you do.
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Then why did the relic heal the boy only, and not every other sick person in it's vicinity? In addition, it "cured" him of the virus, but it didn't repair the damage done to his face. Even when J.C. was (allegedly) making miracles back in the day, he went ALL the way - he didn't do it half assed.
 
Weren't you paying attention - we can't know those sorts of things - so it's just best to praise the Jeebus and bask in the ecstatic narcotic, pulsing glow of unquestioned religious assumption. (grin)

Obviously the relic was the cause for the effect, no one else was affected because, well, we can't know - best not to ask.

Maybe they were just dirty sinners or Buddhists or someting, or maybe the damage remained because they only brought the flesh eating relic, not the plastic surgery one (Saint Gabor?), we just, well, simply can't know.

LOL
 
kallipolis said:
Transparently nor can you disprove that the cause of the recovery of the patient was the placing of the relic next to the patient beginning the process of the boy's recovery from the very time that the relic was placed on the patient's pillow.
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Unfortunately your reasoning doesn't make much sense.
I'm pretty sure that the same day a ton of things were placed near that boy. New bedsheets, maybe some flowers, perhaps a food tray?
Would you also think that these items were magical and caused the recovery?

By the same logic it might have aswell been the magical catheder of St. Urine that caused the effect.
 
See Mikey, I have no problem with that. It's honest, and doesn't claim to be other than what it is, and while I disagree, it's a disagreement based on the efficacy of faith and prayer, not an argument claiming such is fact and proof.

There's nothing hypocritical about it.
 
kallipolis said:
Your several posts evidence your deep concern, even determined hostility that such a phenomenon should be accepted by rational people as a miracle.
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I know I'm deeply concerned when "miracle" becomes the accepted explanation for an observed phenomena. I expressed this in some detail in my previous post (response #5).
 
FirmaFan said:
I know I'm deeply concerned when "miracle" becomes the accepted explanation for an observed phenomena. I expressed this in some detail in my previous post (response #5).
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I am sure that your concerns are duly noted by those concerned that a miracle should precipitate so much concern among this forum's militant atheists.
 
I am quite willing to accept that it was an inexplicable fortuitous event. I see no reason to bring statuettes, or prayers to it, into the picture.

When evil circumstance and occurence as well are set forth as miracles I will look upon the present claim with less scepticism.
 
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