Post something just for the heck of it

[belamyi]

¡Maravilloso!

Although Spanish does make sense, you just have to understand the background. If you want a language that doesn't make sense, English is the one to pounce on, with its mix of a large handful of root languages -- and in comparison to Spanish, it's sloppy and imprecise.

Right: Spanish is just a watered-down version of Latin, with some Arabic vocabulary thrown in, while English is a mutant version of Anglo-Saxon through bastardized French.

 

[Kulindahr]

Right: Spanish is just a watered-down version of Latin, with some Arabic vocabulary thrown in, while English is a mutant version of Anglo-Saxon through bastardized French.

The mutations include bits from Welsh and other languages spoken on the isles, plus imported bits of Danish (Viking) and then the mess made worse by trying to force that smorgasbord to conform to Latin grammar.

 

[belamyi]

The mutations include bits from Welsh and other languages spoken on the isles, plus imported bits of Danish (Viking) and then the mess made worse by trying to force that smorgasbord to conform to Latin grammar.

Like Spanish is more than just Latin with some Arabic words.

 

[Araucaria]

Like Spanish is more than just Latin with some Arabic words.

Yeah, but I thought you spoke Catalan over in Barcelona, which is a different language than Spanish.

 

[belamyi]

Yeah, but I thought you spoke Catalan over in Barcelona, which is a different language than Spanish.

So..?


You mean I "also spoke".

 

[Kulindahr]

Like Spanish is more than just Latin with some Arabic words.

Though at least Spanish makes adopted words conform to a single, clear spelling system -- English adopts words and keeps the original spelling, ending up with silly things like "o" being pronounced like the "i" in "bit", and "ough" being pronounced in at least four different ways.

 

[Araucaria]

So..?


You mean I "also spoke".

So..?

I guess I should have made it clear that "you" was meant in the plural sense, meaning all the people in Barcelona as well as you personally, as in everyone in Barcelona speaks Catalan, at least as their first language. Or perhaps I should have used the Southern U.S. dialect "y'all," which would be clear enough.

So.. My thinking was that if indeed Catalan is your native tongue, then you come to your opinion of (Castilian) Spanish as somewhat of an outsider, which can still be interesting. You could also give your observations and opinions on Catalan, as well.

Or perhaps my mistake is in assuming that since you live in Barcelona, that you must be a native of the city. Maybe you hail originally from a region of Spain which speaks Castilian. But then again, I've noticed that most JUB members living in Spain are American or British ex-patriots, meaning that their native language is English. I did not think you were among them. My point is that I was looking for some background on your perspective.

 

[Kulindahr]

So..?

I guess I should have made it clear that "you" was meant in the plural sense, meaning all the people in Barcelona as well as you personally, as in everyone in Barcelona speaks Catalan, at least as their first language. Or perhaps I should have used the Southern U.S. dialect "y'all," which would be clear enough.

So.. My thinking was that if indeed Catalan is your native tongue, then you come to your opinion of (Castilian) Spanish as somewhat of an outsider, which can still be interesting. You could also give your observations and opinions on Catalan, as well.

Or perhaps my mistake is in assuming that since you live in Barcelona, that you must be a native of the city. Maybe you hail originally from a region of Spain which speaks Castilian. But then again, I've noticed that most JUB members living in Spain are American or British ex-patriots, meaning that their native language is English. I did not think you were among them. My point is that I was looking for some background on your perspective.

This reminds me of my discovery by experience that Cuban Spanish and Mexican Spanish have some divergences -- and both diverge somewhat from Argentinian Spanish. So if someone says "I speak Spanish" it doesn't mean they will say things the same way someone else who speaks Spanish would.

 

[belamyi]

So..?

I guess I should have made it clear that "you" was meant in the plural sense, meaning all the people in Barcelona as well as you personally, as in everyone in Barcelona speaks Catalan, at least as their first language.

OMG you know NOTHING about linguistic issues in Catalonia.
Suffice to say, to thousands of people in Catalonia, learning and speaking Catalan is what getting vaccinated is to about half the American population.

 

[belamyi]

So.. My thinking was that if indeed Catalan is your native tongue

Nope, I started learning it at six, at school, like over half the population in Catalonia.

 

[belamyi]

Or perhaps my mistake is in assuming that since you live in Barcelona, that you must be a native of the city.

I am a native of the city because my parents insisted on driving under lovely BCN summer weather to one of the two or three leading hospitals in the city: it's like having been born at Mount Sinai, but having lived virtually your whole life in New Jersey

Simply my Catalan accent is different from what people expect from someone having been raised in the neighbourhood in which I lived with my parents as a... strappler.

 

[belamyi]

Or perhaps my mistake is in assuming that since you live in Barcelona, that you must be a native of the city. Maybe you hail originally from a region of Spain which speaks Castilian. But then again, I've noticed that most JUB members living in Spain are American or British ex-patriots

Is it because that sounds like "traitors" that native English speakers usually write "ex-pats"...

 

[Araucaria]

OMG you know NOTHING about linguistic issues in Catalonia.
Suffice to say, to thousands of people in Catalonia, learning and speaking Catalan is what getting vaccinated is to about half the American population.

Ooh, there's no need to bristle like a porcupine! I may have had a misperception about the state of the speaking of Catalan vs. Castilian in Barcelona. That's why I asked.

But my misperception wasn't entirely my own. Since JUBBers often demand sources, I got my information from Rand McNally Goode's World Atlas, 18th Edition. Published in 1990, the information in it may well be obsolete. On the map of European languages, it shows Catalan as the language spoken on the Mediterranean coast of eastern and northeastern Spain, and Castilian being spoken in most of the rest of Spain (excluding the locations labeled as Galician and Basque).

So you've established that to say Catalan is the first language of Barcelona natives is incorrect.

 

[Araucaria]

Nope, I started learning it at six, at school, like over half the population in Catalonia.

OK, perhaps Catalan was the native language of Barcelona at one time, but from what you're telling me, over time it became supplanted by Castilian. You may have been taught Catalan at school as a way to preserve the language, perhaps as a regional pride thing (I'm asking, not assuming). Perhaps that is connected to the Catalonia independence vote a couple of years ago (again, I'm asking, not assuming). BTW, we had a secession movement in the U. S. at one time, of course. History shows that it didn't end up well.

 

[Araucaria]

Is it because that sounds like "traitors" that native English speakers usually write "ex-pats"...

The term "ex-patriot" does sound like it refers to someone who has renounced their citizenship to their native country, doesn't it? Though all it means is that citizens of one country are now living abroad, as in the American ex.patriot community in Paris.

Though the meaning is quite different when you say Tom Brady is an ex-Pat.

 

[frankfrank]

^ Actually is expatriate, which removes the illusion that somebody "changed their mind and now dislikes their country" or something. Patriate (which strangely may not be a word??) being somebody who lives in a specified country, and expatriate no longer does. (Strange that the ex-word doesn't alert spellcheck, but patriate by itself does.)

But I will

Surrender your gay card immediately.

¡Maravilloso!

Although Spanish does make sense, you just have to understand the background. If you want a language that doesn't make sense, English is the one to pounce on, with its mix of a large handful of root languages -- and in comparison to Spanish, it's sloppy and imprecise.

I think that Spanish has a somewhat less imprecise vocabulary for some things - such as I've noticed that ball, balloon, globe, sphere seem to all be called "globo." On the other hand, I don't think that Spanish has words that mean so many different things, such as "set" in English.

This reminds me of my discovery by experience that Cuban Spanish and Mexican Spanish have some divergences -- and both diverge somewhat from Argentinian Spanish. So if someone says "I speak Spanish" it doesn't mean they will say things the same way someone else who speaks Spanish would.

I definitely noticed that Argentinian Spanish sounded rather strange, and it even includes some phonemes that don't exist in any Spanish I've heard before, such as LL sounding more like J than the Y (as a consonant) sound that I was taught. I've lost nearly all of it over more than half a century.

 

[Araucaria]

^ Actually is expatriate...

My mistake. The correct spelling does remove the concept of disloyalty to one's native country, though that was indeed the original meaning of the word. In current usage "expatriate" does not imply this, it only denotes someone currently living outside their country of origin.

 

[belamyi]

Ooh, there's no need to bristle like a porcupine! I may have had a misperception about the state of the speaking of Catalan vs. Castilian in Barcelona. That's why I asked.

But my misperception wasn't entirely my own. Since JUBBers often demand sources, I got my information from Rand McNally Goode's World Atlas, 18th Edition. Published in 1990, the information in it may well be obsolete. On the map of European languages, it shows Catalan as the language spoken on the Mediterranean coast of eastern and northeastern Spain, and Castilian being spoken in most of the rest of Spain (excluding the locations labeled as Galician and Basque).

So you've established that to say Catalan is the first language of Barcelona natives is incorrect.

OK, perhaps Catalan was the native language of Barcelona at one time, but from what you're telling me, over time it became supplanted by Castilian. You may have been taught Catalan at school as a way to preserve the language, perhaps as a regional pride thing (I'm asking, not assuming). Perhaps that is connected to the Catalonia independence vote a couple of years ago (again, I'm asking, not assuming). BTW, we had a secession movement in the U. S. at one time, of course. History shows that it didn't end up well.

Well over one half of the Catalan population are either people having emigrated from other parts of Spain, or from outside Spain, to Catalonia, or else being born from them, and having had their parents' mother language as their own, before entering the Catalan educational system: those latter (like moi) are usually referred to as "charnegos/txarnegos", sort of "half-breeds". It is not about how many people understand or else speak the language, but about the status of the language among different groups and social classes. Spaniards outside Catalonia, particularly the usual good-for-nothing hating suspects, are pissed that Catalonia is not just like the rest of Spain, but with some funny folk frills, like Andalusia, and are too lazy to accept a language that they view to removed from their own cultural heritage, and more as a "consort" to Spanish than as the actual "coregent" that Iberian Spanish law sanctions, and yet also too close to them to benefit from any sort of exotic prestige, let alone any sort of practical advantage in any economic and scientific field... the one they fancy Spanish has

 

[belamyi]

My mistake. The correct spelling does remove the concept of disloyalty to one's native country, though that was indeed the original meaning of the word. In current usage "expatriate" does not imply this, it only denotes someone currently living outside their country of origin.

So it was just "you", and there are not thousands of 'more or less' native English-speakers (won't recall your particular case) who take the original of "ex-pat" as "ex-patriot"

 

[belamyi]

Dirty talk is not what it used to be anymore... damn boring conservative new society