Prez Obama on Al-Arabiya TV 1st

[HenryReardon]

And btw, Reardon, the beardy one said he came to fullfil OT law, not dismiss it. There's a couple of interpretations of that, deppending on what side of th fire and brimstone fence ye sit.

Actually, when you strip away all the crap, his message can be boiled down to this, "be in the world, but not of the world." In fact, the only time he really lost his temper was when the world invaded the church (temple).

The fundies, and for that matter the Popes of the past, could learn a lot from that.

All they need do is go through life doing good things and paying no attention to the shit.

 

[Kulindahr]

Any in-depth study of the Middle East, Islam, Israeli-Palestinian conflict shows you that it is a small % of Muslims who want war with the west. The generalizations you made are indicitive of arguments made by someone not learned on this subject. Many people suffer from the ego-centricity of too much patriotism and miss the reality of the conflict.
I didn't vote for Obama but he is doing the right thing here. Bush, as great as he was, didn't do enough to let the Middle East (outside of Iraq) know we want to be their friend and eventual world partner 10, 50, 100 years down the line.

Knowledge on this has to begin with the answer to these questions:

How did there come to be a (Pahlavi) Shah in Iran?
How did the dynasty survive?
What brought about its fall?

I'm betting that Obama knows the answers to these and could give them thoroughly without looking up from work at his desk.
I bet Bush didn't know anything about Iran except it produces oil.

I'll leave it there, because to say more at this point would require answering those questions in part, and I don't want to do anyone's homework for them. I will, though, note that the Wikipedia article on the dynasty is barely sufficient to even call a small beginning.

 

[jktoooo]

Henry, in a way they're right.

There was no world movement of Islamic extremists until President Carter's National Security Advisor, Zbigniew Bzrezinski, deliberately chose the extremist factions as the one to aid with U.S. arms and encouragement in Afghanistan.

What?

What part of Islam and islamists invading, slaughtering and ultimately controlling most of Western Asia (Persia, Pakistan, etc.) do you NOT undertand?
What part of islam and islamists invading, slaughtering and ultimately controlling North Africa don't you understand?
What part of Islam and islamists invading,m slaughtering and for a time controlling western Europe (italy, Spain) do you not understand?
Waht part of islam and islamists invading, slaughtering and ultimately controlling Eastern Europe (istanbul/turkey) do you not understand?

islamists went as far as they could based on what they understood was the 'earth".

Part of the encouragement came in the form of helping them gather any willing
We know those schools as the extreme fundamentalist madrashahs which now serve as the indoctrination halls for future terrorists.

It's NOT "extremist" Islam if it is fundamental and basic in islamic teachings.

Under Reagan, arms and funding increased, and no one bothered to change the prioritizing of that aid to the most extremist groups in Afghanistan. Osama bin Laden, who while Carter was president had built an army of 4,000 brought with him from outside Afghanistan, founded Al Qaeda with U.S. knowledge -- and aid and training.

the more obvious threat during this time was communism. it had to be fought on all fronts. but socialists don't understand this as they think communism would be good for us.

Then under Reagan and Bush I, we did what to a Muslim is unforgivable: we walked out on them, something even a dog doesn't do to a comrade.

why is that unforgivable? We aided them that far. what you just stated is that they are ungrateful for help.

So we inaugurated, fomented, trained, and armed a worldwide movement of hate which had not previously existed.
Then we spit in its face.

More "hate America First".......so tiredsome is this attitude.

As though that weren't enough, we kicked dirt it its face, too: the Muslim world tolerated Bush I aiding Kuwait in the Desert Storm operation, because Saddam, not very devout by even the loosest of standards, was considered a possible threat to the guardians of the Holy Places, i.e. Saudi Arabia, and they wanted him smacked down.

"tolerated" my ass! they BEGGED for help!
Quite getting you "history" from Rosie O'Donnell.

But we were expected to pack up and go home after, not invite ourselves, so to speak, to set up house in a corner of their tent.

Nope, YOU ARE WRONG. The threat of Saddaam HUSSEIN (yeah, the same Husseing as in Barack HUSSEIN) was too much and they wanted america to protect them.

OMB --- the rest of this is just about too much for me tonite.

Libtards....can't live with them.....can't.....
lmao!

By abandoning people we'd been friends to in Afghanistan, we showed ourselves not worthy of trust or respect. But Muslims understand how one ruler can be different from another, so after Reagan, they were hesitantly willing to believe Bush would be the friend they thought they'd had. When we didn't honor their understanding of friendship and hospitality, we demonstrated in their terms that it wasn't just one 'ruler', but the nation, that wasn't fit to be treated as human.

We couldn't have done a whole lot worse than if, had there been a Caliph, a U.S. ambassador had walked into his tent and pissed on his favorite rug in front of all his sheiks.

Now, when you befriend a stray, train it to be a vicious attack dog, then cut off its food and piss on it, can you honestly expect it isn't going to go for your balls?

This is a clash of worldviews, but we're supposed to be the smart ones with understanding. Instead, we birthed and trained a movement that we then turned into an enemy, handing the worldview-community we've given cause to hate us a weapon suitable for attempting our destruction.

And they don't, by the way, hate us for our way of life, they hate us because we gave theirs no respect whatsoever and treated them like crap.

 

[jktoooo]

With Islam, culture and religion frequently merge and become one.

well....you got me on this one......Islam is, in the Muslim mind....a TOTAL way of life....including "cultural", "religious" and YES "Political".

 

[jktoooo]

You're getting hysterical again. I didn't say the sword verses of the koran were justified. Anyway, to save me trawling through biblical verses, I'll give you a quote that justifies rape, genocide and slavery all in the oner.

"Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves."

fine, you brought one.

How does this make the murderous verses in Islam holy and good and righteous.

further, where do you see Christians freely slaughtering and killing and committing mass genocides to spread christianity?

Just because there are currently no christian nations (other than your own, I struggle to think of one country that I could truely regard as christian as opposed to broadly secularist so this seems like a pointless exercise,) doesn't mean there aren't a hell of a lot christians out there that don't want to see a return to the biblical laws. The dominionist movement in your country for example. A sizeable minority, who hold a fair degree of clout within the christian right. They would happily see a return to biblical law where gays and lsbians would not be the only ones on the recieving end of a fuck-load of rocks. They're not in power just now, but it could happen. All it takes is a catastrophic, polarising event to drive the rest of the god squad over to thier side.

Christianity could have easily barbarically taken over America within the last 150 years. Why they didn't? Christianity was easily 85+ percent American population and this didn't happen. Why?

In islam, once the islamic population becomes 20-30% of a nations population, it's good by personal freedoms and liberties ---- hello Shari'ah!

Eeeeh...that. The fairly scarey wingnut movement in your own back yard that you seem oblivious to,





Actualy, to find examples of christian barbarism, you only need to look about a decade or so back, to Northern Ireland. Or even sooner than that, in the balkans.

okay, so you say northern Ireland.....where in christian teachings it states for them to be as "barbaric" as they were?

and as far as the 'bulkans", you haven't a clue what happened there. Christians, non christians and non muslims were being persecuted and slaughtered. It took years and years for these people to fight back against Muslims and their barbaric ways.

I'm even less likely to take you seriously (think I'm kiddin' maself, I don't think that's possible,) if you characterise your opinion on something so ultimately as "the truth."

that's RICH! coming from someone who has the communist LOGO across the american flag! so, you must stand for personal liberties? right?

lol! LMao! such a mental disorder is this "liberalism".

And I wasn't trying to refute the verses you've quoted from the koran. I'm certainly not sticking up for islam. I was pointing out that you're railing against something simply because people like you need an enemy.

Oh, buddy, we are the enemy whether we like it or not. this is what islam teaches....we can't do a damn thing about how much hate and contempt islam teaches muslims must have for us.

Paranoia is a chracteristic of the far right, and the hysterical "everyone needs to agree with me!" to the extent that you're offended when they don't does fuck all to disspell that notion.

actually, that describes everyone on the far left.
it's like a liar calling a truthful person a liar.

And btw, Reardon, the beardy one said he came to fullfil OT law, not dismiss it. There's a couple of interpretations of that, deppending on what side of th fire and brimstone fence ye sit.

yes, and i'm sure we'll live to see that day, right?
lol!
lmao!

 

[Kulindahr]

Many of you people just do NOT understand Islam and how it affects Muslims.

***shakes head***

it's very frustrating dealing with "liberals" and their fantasy world they live in.

***shakes head***

Obama trying to appeal to Muslims is just stupidity....PLAIN STUPIDITY!!!!

Can't you Gays on here understand that Islam HATES GAY PEOPLE.....PERIOD?

Not only does Islam HATE gays.....Islam teaches Muslims to:

.....Hate Jews (especially Jews)!
.....Hate Non Muslims!
.....Lie and deceive the Non Muslims to further the islamic agenda
.....Commit mass genocides of Non Muslims and Jews in order for Islam to be the only religion on earth. Al Qaeda, Ahmadi Nijad, all those crazed Islamic freaks SPEAK THE TRUTH OF WHAT ISLAM TEACHES.

Stop defending Obama's ignorant stupid actions and understand Islam is virtually incompatible with western society as we know it.

There's a certain amount of truth in there.

But Islam also teaches to treat with respect your neighbors who treat them with respect. That means there's room here for the principles Sun Tzu taught, for the principles of guerilla warfare. I think Obama is applying those not as a way to win per se, but as a way to separate the militants from those who would be quiet neighbors. That will narrow the scope of the conflict at this stage.
Bush erred in seeing war as just applying violence. He should have read Sun Tzu, von Clausewitz, and Machiavelli, just for starters, because war is fought on multiple levels. Islam, with principles such as you note above, understands this -- and Obama, with these moves is, IMO, applying it right back at them.

Maybe he really thinks we can be friends; I'd say, "Not in this version of Islam". Maybe he's setting up for a judo move. Maybe his mind is somewhere else. But out of three or four possibilities, only one is bad, and I find it improbable --

after all, he's not totally naive; he did fight and beat McCain.

 

[Kulindahr]

This "small %" is so insignificant that tens of thousands of people --- muslims and non muslims alike --- are killed at the hands of Muslims every year. Don't make it sound as if it is insignificant....it is SIGNIFICANT INDEED!



Obama is doing the WRONG THING by thinking that Muslims can be our friends.

from the Qur'an:
Sura (5:51) - "O you who believe! (Muslims do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."

Sura (5:80) - "You will see many of them befriending those who disbelieve; certainly evil is that which their souls have sent before for them, that Allah became displeased with them and in chastisement shall they abide." Those Muslims who befriend unbelievers will abide in hell.

Sura (3:28) - "Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah..."

Sura (3:118) - "O you who believe! do not take for intimate friends from among others than your own people, they do not fall short of inflicting loss upon you; they love what distresses you; vehement hatred has already appeared from out of their mouths, and what their breasts conceal is greater still; indeed, We have made the communications clear to you, if you will understand." This verse not only warns Muslims not to take non-Muslims as friends, but it establishes the deep-seated paranoia that the rest of the world is out to get them.

Sura (9:23) - "O ye who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Whoso of you taketh them for friends, such are wrong-doers" Even family members are not to be taken as friends if they do not accept Islam. (This is the mildest interpretation of this verse from the 9th Sura, which also advocates "slaying the unbeliever wherever ye find them").

Sura (53:29) - "Therefore shun those who turn away from Our Message and desire nothing but the life of this world."

Sura (3:85) - "And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers."

Sura (3:10) - "(As for) those who disbelieve, surely neither their wealth nor their children shall avail them in the least against Allah, and these it is who are the fuel of the fire." Those who do not believe in Muhammad are but fuel for the fire of Hell (also 66:6, 2:24. 21:98).

Sura (7:44) - "The Companions of the Garden will call out to the Companions of the Fire: "We have indeed found the promises of our Lord to us true: Have you also found Your Lord's promises true?" They shall say, "Yes"; but a crier shall proclaim between them: "The curse of Allah is on the wrong-doers" Muslims in heaven will amuse themselves by looking down on non-Muslims in Hell and mocking them while they are being tortured (see 22:19-22.

Sura (1:5-7) - "Show us the straight path, The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray" This is a prayer that Muslims are supposed to repeat each day. "Those who earn Thine anger" specifically refers to Jews and "those who go astray" refers to Christians (see Bukhari (12:749)).

This goes on an on in all Islamic teachings such as this!

Obama is an IDIOT!

Leftists are IDIOTS if they believe Middle Eastern ISLAMIC NATIONS will be our "friends".

Yes, and even bush was an idiot to believe so.

Thinking on those who grasp the art of war, I look at that and realize that what Obama is doing is a strategy arising straight from what you cited.

Fascinating.

 

[EwanSF]

fine, you brought one.

How does this make the murderous verses in Islam holy and good and righteous.

further, where do you see Christians freely slaughtering and killing and committing mass genocides to spread christianity?

I'll say this for a final time. I'm not sticking up for Islam, I'm saying you hate it (and muslims along with it I suspect,) because you're a far-right propaganda mouthpiece. Anyway, if you care to look at the history of the genocide in Rwanda, where the clergy helped propogate the emnity between the tutsis and hutus, as they saw at as beneficial to thier missionary work, ie, convincing a sizeable number of the hutus that what they were doing was well within the grace of god, you'll see quite a good example of christians using horrific violence to spread the faith.

Christianity could have easily barbarically taken over America within the last 150 years. Why they didn't? Christianity was easily 85+ percent American population and this didn't happen. Why?

In islam, once the islamic population becomes 20-30% of a nations population, it's good by personal freedoms and liberties ---- hello Shari'ah!

Oh did you see that video on youtube? Those figures have no basis in science, just thought I'd point that out. Anyway, the dominionist movement is reletively new, as is wahabism. It's still gaining momentum. That's why you've not been living under a theocracy.

okay, so you say northern Ireland.....where in christian teachings it states for them to be as "barbaric" as they were?

and as far as the 'bulkans", you haven't a clue what happened there. Christians, non christians and non muslims were being persecuted and slaughtered. It took years and years for these people to fight back against Muslims and their barbaric ways.

Chritianity doesn't need the bible for violence. No patriarchal religions do. In NI it was a sectarian devision. It was violence done in the name of religion. And again, I think you may be reading selectively into the histories there. While atrocities occured on all sides, in serb controlled Bosnia, some of the worst attrocities since the second world war were carried out against people for the simple fact that they were muslim. Serb nationalists have a tendancy to be fundamentalist in the russian orthdox faith.


I''m not bothering with the rest as it's just too easy. You're a fuckin' charicature man.

 

[Kulindahr]

Where are gays put to death in "Christian" Countries? by the way, which nations in this world are 100% full, or even 90%, Christian rule with complete and total Christian law ---- like we find in Islam with Islamic shari'ah? On a more related [to your comment] note about gays being put to death Iran puts gays to death; Saudi Arabia will put gays to death; Pakistan will put gays to death; UAE will put gays to death; Egypt will put gays to death; Syria will put gays to death; it goes on and on pal.

There's a good point: Christianity took a while, but it finally learned that what Jesus said about not holding temporal power was a good thing (though we still have the slow learners suchas America's theocratic ReligioPublicans).

Islam not only has no such warning, it goes the opposite direction.

 

[opinterph]

fuckwit....

Oh puhleeze.

Drewsuf, you are a most intriguing guy. ​

A person who is not only lacking in clue but is apparently unable or unwilling to acquire clue even when handed it on a plate in generous portions. [Link]

 

[Kulindahr]

At this point, it doesn't much matter why they hate us. All that matters is the fact that they do hate us.

And, I've got news for Barry O, when you hold an olive branch out to these people, they regard it as a sign of weakness. It's a cultural thing.

What "they"?

You speak as though Islam is a monolithic bloc of people, all marching to a Hamas-like drummer.

 

[Kulindahr]

With Islam, culture and religion frequently merge and become one.

Very good point.
Yet frequently, religion trumps culture -- recall that one of the things which got the Shah of Iran in trouble was that he started celebrating the culture of the ancient Persian civilization -- which since it was not Islamic, was infidel, according to religious leaders.

 

[Kulindahr]

Actually, when you strip away all the crap, his message can be boiled down to this, "be in the world, but not of the world." In fact, the only time he really lost his temper was when the world invaded the church (temple).

The fundies, and for that matter the Popes of the past, could learn a lot from that.

All they need do is go through life doing good things and paying no attention to the shit.

Um... no, you can't boil His message down to that, because while it is critical, it gives no guidance as to what it is to do in this world one is to be in.

He didn't "lose His temper", if you read the account -- He had it tightly under control: someone who'd lost his temper wouldn't stand there and fashion a whip out of tie-cords for cages. He loosed His temper, which is an entirely different matter (all those who confuse "lose" and "loose", consider yourselves chastised).
It wasn't a matter of "church" and "world", either -- it was a matter of "church" and His Dad's house: those operations He booted were church operations, but His Dad had said they didn't belong in His House.
It was a very libertarian moment.

Yes, fundies and 'evangelicals' and Popes (not just of the past!) could learn a bit from that. It doesn't, however, boil down to "go through life doing good things and paying no attention to the shit", because doing good things demands paying attention to the shit -- most good things require fixing shit, not ignoring it. As has been said, all that is needed for evil to prosper it for good men to do nothing, and nothing is just what you get when you ignore the shit.

 

[youngnihilist]

Christian fundamentalists... yeah right. they hardly exist. milosevic wasn't one, by the way. northern island? hardly.

they hate us. they want to kill us. and we offer them love and hugs. uh huh, that's gonna go over well.

obama will lead us to destruction. but you know what? i dont care. its meant to be. there, my username fits me now?

 

[Kulindahr]

What part of Islam and islamists invading, slaughtering and ultimately controlling most of Western Asia (Persia, Pakistan, etc.) do you NOT undertand?
What part of islam and islamists invading, slaughtering and ultimately controlling North Africa don't you understand?
What part of Islam and islamists invading,m slaughtering and for a time controlling western Europe (italy, Spain) do you not understand?
Waht part of islam and islamists invading, slaughtering and ultimately controlling Eastern Europe (istanbul/turkey) do you not understand?

islamists went as far as they could based on what they understood was the 'earth".

Did you finish high school?
It must have been a government school if you did, because your logical abilities are excessively lacking.

That's a nice list, but it has nothing to do with the subject of Islamic extremism.

It's NOT "extremist" Islam if it is fundamental and basic in islamic teachings.

But is it?
Obviously, not the majority of Muslims have thought so throughout history: most of them have done what Obama said, just wanted to raise their children and live their lives.

Study a little history.

the more obvious threat during this time was communism. it had to be fought on all fronts. but socialists don't understand this as they think communism would be good for us.

Oh -- so making an enemy for yourself for the future is acceptable if you're fashioning it to fight a current enemy?
That excuses a LOT of stupid foreign policy. It's almost as good as the excuses Clinton had.

why is that unforgivable? We aided them that far. what you just stated is that they are ungrateful for help.

Please go back and read. You're showing incredibly poor reading comprehension.
It gets really tiresome having to explain things to people in baby steps. I set put what I meant very carefully -- go READ it before you spout off.

More "hate America First".......so tiredsome is this attitude.

That's a nice hindbrain, kneejerk response to history.
It's also blind, immature, and counterproductive, because it makes you look like a bloody fool. If America were filled with knee-jerk ignoramuses, I might hate it. Fortunately, it isn't, so I content myself with hating the people who only support the parts of the Constitution they like and oppose the rest -- you know those people, the ones called Democrats, and the ones called Republicans.

You can't love anyone, even -- perhaps especially -- yourself, without facing the truth. The truth is that we treated people in that part of the world as serfs set down there for our benefit, starting back before WWII, as we manipulated governments to get lots of oil cheaply, and supported and encouraged fascists in order to keep it coming.

Want to know something? Most of the anti-Jew hatred in the Islamic world today stems from the Nazis, who managed to export it via the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem. Want to know something else? The U.S., in order to keep its favorites on their thrones so the oil could keep coming, not only tolerated that attitude but made use of it. Politicians from both sides of the aisle are guilty; it was "in our national interest".

Well, it's never in our national interest to support tyranny, seeing as what we stand for is that "these truths are self-evident, that all men are created equal, and are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty...."

Maybe it wouldn't be tiresome if you stopped hiding behind a farcical mantra of "America right or wrong" and realize that a true patriot knows that to love his country is to hold it and its leaders baldly accountable for every breach of liberty.

"tolerated" my ass! they BEGGED for help!
Quite getting you "history" from Rosie O'Donnell.

I wasn't aware that Rosie "You can't have guns but my bodyguards can" O'Donnell knew any history. For that matter, I wasn't aware she cared.

If she does happen to know a minute or two worth, I'd be more likely to shoot her on sight if she came on my property than to listen to her for more than 0.0001 seconds.

Nope, YOU ARE WRONG. The threat of Saddaam HUSSEIN (yeah, the same Husseing as in Barack HUSSEIN) was too much and they wanted america to protect them.

Abraham Lincoln warned against the fallacy of changing the meaning of words while you're using them, because it confuses one's thinking. Your thinking is quite confused, and it shows quite clearly in the fact that you can't keep the same meaning of the third person plural pronoun from paragraph to paragraph or post to post.

"They"-Kuwait wanted America's help. "They"-Saudi Arabia agreed with reservations. "They"-the-Muslim-world had mixed feelings, which were led by nervousness over having infidels in the Kingdom which is Protector of their Holy Places. As it turned out, they were quite right to have those misgivings, since we set up shop and didn't go away.

Third-grade arguments... did you even finish middle school?
Are you aware of how moronic an argument from similar names is? Here, watch me do it:

Your screen name is "jktoooo", which contains the letters "JK", which is the same as "Jack Kennedy", or even "Jackie Jennedy", so from your name I guess you must be one of those libtard Dumbocrats who want to hand out country over to the communists, right? And you're so excited to have a librul as your hero that you spell "too" with extra Os!.
But wait, you probably aren't old enough to remember John Kennedy, so I guess what you're really excited about is John Kerry, the loser libtard Dim -- right?

OMB --- the rest of this is just about too much for me tonite.

Libtards....can't live with them.....can't.....
lmao!

I don't really know what a "libtard" is, unless it's short for a chick who has been LIBerated from her leoTARD, or maybe a LIBrary TARDy slip, or perhaps a LIBby's cusTARD.
If you tell me who or what they are, maybe I can help with your approach-avoidance problem.

Until then, this LIBertarian musTARD-lover is going to have a sandwich.

 

[Kulindahr]

Well, I just watched the vid three times, the last while reading the transcript. It doesn't seem terribly bold, novel, or revolutionary, except insofar as this: he noted that in the past the U.S. has tended to just dictate to people, so his just speaking plainly about things that are rather just common sense is a change.

One thing that made me wonder is how he thinks the 'Palestinians' can get a contiguous state -- that's an interesting one, if you look at a map.

Another interesting item is where he says he had Muslim members of his family. Radical Muslims will recall that his father was a Muslim -- and count Obama as an apostate, someone to be killed on sight.

 

[HenryReardon]

Um... no, you can't boil His message down to that, because while it is critical, it gives no guidance as to what it is to do in this world one is to be in.

He didn't "lose His temper", if you read the account -- He had it tightly under control: someone who'd lost his temper wouldn't stand there and fashion a whip out of tie-cords for cages. He loosed His temper, which is an entirely different matter (all those who confuse "lose" and "loose", consider yourselves chastised).
It wasn't a matter of "church" and "world", either -- it was a matter of "church" and His Dad's house: those operations He booted were church operations, but His Dad had said they didn't belong in His House.
It was a very libertarian moment.

.

OK. He didn't 'lose his temper,' perhaps 'took notice of the world' or some other phrase would have been a better choice. On the other hand, it was a matter of "church" and "world" in the sense that worldly endeavor had invaded the house of God.

 

[Lostlover]

I don't understand this notion that the entire Muslim religion should be condemned forever, as if they're incapable of progression.

Last time I checked, white American raped, lynched, enslaved, and used blacks as property for a good CENTURY. They grew out of it.....sorta.

That's the older peoples' legacy of being afraid of people and sowing some other website.

Hopefully, in the near future we can make amends and start talking to Cuba and other groups that were never hostile to us.

By the way, it isn't all of white America.

 

[HenryReardon]

I don't understand this notion that the entire Muslim religion should be condemned forever, as if they're incapable of progression.

.

Progression isn't possible for the Islamic purists.

Islam is a religion caught in a 10th century time warp. There is no built-in mechanism for change. As far as the fanatic leaders of Islam are concerned, what was written is cast in concrete forever.

In that respect, they're sort of like Southern Baptists and other Fundamentalists.

 

[jktoooo]

Did you finish high school?
It must have been a government school if you did, because your logical abilities are excessively lacking.

That's a nice list, but it has nothing to do with the subject of Islamic extremism.

first, there is no "extremism" if what Muslims do to spread Islam is basic Islamic teachings: further Islam, through deceit, war, killing/genocides.
that's what my point was: Islam spreads through war, deceit, killing/genocides.

But is it?
Obviously, not the majority of Muslims have thought so throughout history: most of them have done what Obama said, just wanted to raise their children and live their lives.

Study a little history.

It only takes a few to cause political strife and change.

Oh -- so making an enemy for yourself for the future is acceptable if you're fashioning it to fight a current enemy?
That excuses a LOT of stupid foreign policy. It's almost as good as the excuses Clinton had.

Apparently so, and Obama and you leftists liberals will find out when you realize that defending Islamists/Islam will only bite you in the ass in the end.

Please go back and read. You're showing incredibly poor reading comprehension.
It gets really tiresome having to explain things to people in baby steps. I set put what I meant very carefully -- go READ it before you spout off.

Kulindahr, please accept this fact: it's not my "reading comprehension that's the "problem", it is your logic that is the problem.

That's a nice hindbrain, kneejerk response to history.
It's also blind, immature, and counterproductive, because it makes you look like a bloody fool. If America were filled with knee-jerk ignoramuses, I might hate it. Fortunately, it isn't, so I content myself with hating the people who only support the parts of the Constitution they like and oppose the rest -- you know those people, the ones called Democrats, and the ones called Republicans.

You can't love anyone, even -- perhaps especially -- yourself,

Ah, so loving myself will solve the problem.....ah, I get it! NOT!
what an idiotic response!

without facing the truth. The truth is that we treated people in that part of the world as serfs set down there for our benefit, starting back before WWII, as we manipulated governments to get lots of oil cheaply, and supported and encouraged fascists in order to keep it coming.

so, 9/11 was justified in your eyes.
more Hate america First.

Want to know something? Most of the anti-Jew hatred in the Islamic world today stems from the Nazis, who managed to export it via the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.

Uh, then what should we make of these 1300 year old teachings in islam, yes 1300 years BEFORE Nazi'ism?:
Qur'an:
"Amongst them [Jews] we (Allah) have placed enmity and hatred till the Day of Judgment. Every time they kindle the fire of war, Allah doth extinguish it; but they (ever) strive to do mischief on earth. And Allah loveth not those who do mischief. -Surah 5:64 (Yusuf Ali)

"When in their insolence they [Jews] transgressed (all) prohibitions, We said to them: "Be ye apes, despised and rejected." -Surah 7:166 (Yususf Ali)

"Those who incurred the curse of Allah and His wrath, those of whom some He transformed into apes and swine [Yup, the Jews], those who worshipped evil;- these are (many times) worse in rank, and far more astray from the even path! -Surah 5:60 (Yusuf Ali)

"And well ye knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath: We said to them [yes, again the Jews]: "Be ye apes, despised and rejected." -Surah 2:65 (Yusuf Ali)

So Loving are Islamic teachings towards Jews that Islam's end of days prophecies cannot be ushered in until Muslims kill all Jews:
from Sahih Hadiths of Bukhari (authentic traditions)-
"(Muhammad said The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.

It's time for YOU to get YOUR facts straight.

Anti Semitism is a cornerstone of Islam, for 1300 years, LONG BEFORE NAZI'ISM ARRIVED.

in fact, it could be considered that Muslims engaged in the first Jewish Holocaust as they SLAUGHTERED and expelled Jews from Arabia because of Muhammad's desire to destroy Jews. In once instance alone Muhammad oversaw the killing of 900 Jews, the Jews of Banu (tribe) Qurayza, who had surrendered to him peacefully and unconditionally but he had 900 of them slaughtered/beheaded. and thrown into a trench the jews dug for themselves.


After I discovered your inaccurate and untruthful assumption that islamic anti semitism stemmed from Nazi'ism, I realized who and what I was dealing with.
I've shattered your untruthful assumption and choose not to address the rest of your nonsense since I've completely discredited your point of view WITH PROOF OF ISLAMIC TEACHINGS THEMSELVES.