Problem with a "straight" friend

[otters]

...yeah, I must be crazy possessive, being the first person to desire monogamy and fidelity in a relationship. I've certainly never met anyone else looking for that, haha.

IMHO it would have been more helpful if you wouldn't have purposely misinterpreted my probably blunt but absolutely serious question as a kind of an insult, or whatever.

 

[coffeespoons]

IMHO it would have been more helpful if you wouldn't have purposely misinterpreted my probably blunt but absolutely serious question as a kind of an insult, or whatever.

"Purposely" implies intentionality. I read your comment the way it appeared to me. If I misinterpreted it, blame it on the communications gap technology provides which gives no space for discerning tone, etc, but don't assume I willfully misinterpreted something. That wouldn't serve to benefit me or anyone else.

 

[sixthson]

I don't know how much I plan on being his counselor. I've been a good gay role model thus far, haha, but he tramples over whatever boundaries I try to lay but never acknowledges his bizarro behavior. So at this point, before anything else, I'm trying to consider how to get him to stop acting weird around me more so than getting him to open up, since it seems he's had that opportunity for a long time but hasn't. While I understand his arrangement with his wife is his deal, the fact that he acts so shady around me when she's present, treating me like a totally different person (something others have noticed) tells me that she has no idea, he feels guilty and recognizes that his behavior toward me is inappropriate. When he got in trouble at the end of the first semester for not bringing her around, it was because she was worried there was someone else. They sound very monogamous, at least in their ethics.

You can't get him to stop or start doing anything. You have no power over him, but it sounds like he has power over you. Take it back. He may or may not be interested in you, he may or may not be gay. You are attracted to him and it is affecting your reasoning.
If you truly want a monogamous relationship with someone, stop looking at a married man. Even if he left his wife for you (pipe dream), what makes you think a man who would do something like that would be faithful to you?

You can't help that you occupy the same space everyday, but you do have control over how much space he takes up in your brain. You take control and stop waiting for him to choose you.

 

[coffeespoons]

You can't get him to stop or start doing anything. You have no power over him, but it sounds like he has power over you. Take it back. He may or may not be interested in you, he may or may not be gay. You are attracted to him and it is affecting your reasoning.
If you truly want a monogamous relationship with someone, stop looking at a married man. Even if he left his wife for you (pipe dream), what makes you think a man who would do something like that would be faithful to you?

You can't help that you occupy the same space everyday, but you do have control over how much space he takes up in your brain. You take control and stop waiting for him to choose you.

Don't worry. I'm not waiting for him to choose me. He's a walking disaster area--I realize that. Not being able to just stop feeling any kind of way about him doesn't mean I'm imagining a trajectory for us. Those feelings are just there. The problem is it's harder to get rid of them when he continues behaving so oddly, and it's hard to know how to address this and set appropriate boundaries with a guy who's insecure about his sexual identity. How do you tell a "straight" married man that his putting his arm around you, staring, erections, etc don't feel platonic? He's the one who brought this into my life. As I said, when I found out he had a wife, I was like, "Oops--better back off." Yet he initiated all the bizarre behavior that followed. I just feel like he needs some measure of accountability here since he's been the active agent and I've been the passive agent this whole time. I guess I'm just upset because it feels like he's dumped all this weirdness on me and gets to waltz away from it totally clean while I'm the one suffering the consequences. While I don't have complete control over him, I can lay some boundaries, and if he doesn't respect them, I can terminate my friendship with him. It's just the "how" of it that confuses me.

 

[sixthson]

The first step is to admit you have no friendship. You have a crush on someone you believe to be attracted to you. He might very well be, but this is not a foundation for a friendship or anything else. The time you have spent together has mostly been a game of cat and mouse, not something people do when forming a friendship. Let's assume he is attracted to you and it sounds like he is. But he is a big mess. But you want him to understand the error of his ways. That is probably not going to happen and you need to stop spending so much energy on him. Chalk up your suffering to a valuable life lesson. At least the two of you never followed through with something that broke you heart. Good luck.

 

[Ganoderma]

(...). How do you tell a "straight" married man that his putting his arm around you, staring, erections, etc don't feel platonic? He's the one who brought this into my life. As I said, when I found out he had a wife, I was like, "Oops--better back off." Yet he initiated all the bizarre behavior that followed. I just feel like he needs some measure of accountability here since he's been the active agent and I've been the passive agent this whole time. (...). I can lay some boundaries, and if he doesn't respect them, I can terminate my friendship with him. It's just the "how" of it that confuses me.

hi coffeespoons,

Thanks for your response. I still have the opinion that you should tell him all the issues you have listed in this quote. So just make an appointment with him that you want to discuss in private with him some aspects of his current behaviour (or something like that). And tell him during this private meeting that you are annoyed about his behaviour and see how he is responding. I have no clue about how he will respond. It's more important that he will know by then that you are annoyed by his behaviour.

Well, you are an open & out & proud gay guy and it seems to me that you are an adult. I tend to think that people like you (with your backgrounds, etc.) must take a lead when it comes to have such a tough talk with him.

I tend to think you won't have a real alternative, as it might well that he will otherwise continue with his behaviour.

Feel free to respond and I would like to wish you good luck. Please note that its easy for me to give you this advice. So I am realizing myself very well that it's tough for your to set this step.

Take care & all the best.

 

[TX-Beau]

OK Ganoderma basically sold you what you needed to hear in a nice way - I'm going to be blunt.

You are an adult, act like it.

Yes you do know what to do, you just won't do it.

All this angst over what? Every time he does something you don't like you stiff arm him in the chest and say "I don't like that - STOP!" Every time, you ignore his texts, you don't return his phone calls, if he harasses you in a professional environment, you report him.

I can't count how many times people in here have used their "feelings" as the reason they can't stop enabling, but you know what, you may not be in control of your feelings (and yet sometimes you are,) but you for damn sure are always in control over where you put your feet.

If your "feelings" are so unmanageable that you won't walk away from this - the problem is not his.

 

[dralockhart]

Aren't you glad I got you to get on here? So, you know, total strangers could flip out at you without for a single moment trying to inhabit your shoes. I feel like they're missing a lot of the nuances, i.e. in a small program in which you both work with and have classes with this guy, cutting him out of your life isn't really an option (and yet somehow you're getting raked over the coals for not doing just that?).

Here's the deal as I see it (and a lot of your other buds do): Yes, he's attracted to you. That's not a question in my mind. He stares at you. He gets aroused by you. He cuts anyone off who's trying to sit by you so he can cozy up to you. He talks about you at length. Yes, his wife and he make a super weird couple. Yes, there seems to be no chemistry. Yes, she seems both oblivious and paranoid.

BUT... he seems like an utter coward to me. He's been only too happy to have super weird interactions with you and never so much as acknowledge them. He's not being honest or open with you. He's not being honest or open with his wife. There's clearly some recognition of his feelings toward you because, as you mentioned, he treats you completely differently when his wife is around, as if he were guilty of something. He's got totally weird issues when it comes to gender, considering some statements he's made in the past, and we already know he is insecure and cares too much what people think about him. And let's remember, he's living off his wife. If he's gay, what are his options? Coming out to his wife, being homeless (considering she's the primary breadwinner), and having to somehow figure out a divorce?

Given what I know about him, I think his story will end up there eventually, and I think he'd be saving himself and his wife a wasted life if he pulls off that Band-Aid right now, but I highly doubt he will ever scrounge up the balls to do it given his current behavior.

I think you should call him out. The fact that others have witnessed his bizarro behavior should keep him in his place. I know it sucks because it's gay man's word vs. "straight" man's word (and we know how that usually works out), but I think in this case there's strong enough evidence for you to approach this confrontation fearlessly.

 

[sixthson]

Aren't you glad I got you to get on here? So, you know, total strangers could flip out at you without for a single moment trying to inhabit your shoes. I feel like they're missing a lot of the nuances, i.e. in a small program in which you both work with and have classes with this guy, cutting him out of your life isn't really an option (and yet somehow you're getting raked over the coals for not doing just that?).

Here's the deal as I see it (and a lot of your other buds do): Yes, he's attracted to you. That's not a question in my mind. He stares at you. He gets aroused by you. He cuts anyone off who's trying to sit by you so he can cozy up to you. He talks about you at length. Yes, his wife and he make a super weird couple. Yes, there seems to be no chemistry. Yes, she seems both oblivious and paranoid.

BUT... he seems like an utter coward to me. He's been only too happy to have super weird interactions with you and never so much as acknowledge them. He's not being honest or open with you. He's not being honest or open with his wife. There's clearly some recognition of his feelings toward you because, as you mentioned, he treats you completely differently when his wife is around, as if he were guilty of something. He's got totally weird issues when it comes to gender, considering some statements he's made in the past, and we already know he is insecure and cares too much what people think about him. And let's remember, he's living off his wife. If he's gay, what are his options? Coming out to his wife, being homeless (considering she's the primary breadwinner), and having to somehow figure out a divorce?

Given what I know about him, I think his story will end up there eventually, and I think he'd be saving himself and his wife a wasted life if he pulls off that Band-Aid right now, but I highly doubt he will ever scrounge up the balls to do it given his current behavior.

I think you should call him out. The fact that others have witnessed his bizarro behavior should keep him in his place. I know it sucks because it's gay man's word vs. "straight" man's word (and we know how that usually works out), but I think in this case there's strong enough evidence for you to approach this confrontation fearlessly.

It's no coincidence that this thread is so much like your own thread on a "straight" guy liking you, now is it?

 

[dralockhart]

It's no coincidence that this thread is so much like your own thread on a "straight" guy liking you, now is it?

The coincidence is that instead of using my own account for posts on my friend's behalf he now has his own.

 

[truszgold]

DUDE!!! He is married and you are desperate and he is lacking in booth social skills and relationship skills. PLEASE avoid this trainwreck. Mr Right is coming, so be availablle.

 

[Maestoso]

I am attracted to straight guys too, they have the qualities that I like in a soulmate. Strong, a little egoistic, super protective (over their girlfriends/wives only unfortunately) and just someone you can lay on his shoulders. Funnily most of the gay men I met have mostly feminine traits which does not suit my taste at all. However, straight guys have no love nor feelings towards men, there can be friendship or bromance but thats about it. Do not go above that boundary.

 

[dralockhart]

I am attracted to straight guys too, they have the qualities that I like in a soulmate. Strong, a little egoistic, super protective (over their girlfriends/wives only unfortunately) and just someone you can lay on his shoulders. Funnily most of the gay men I met have mostly feminine traits which does not suit my taste at all. However, straight guys have no love nor feelings towards men, there can be friendship or bromance but thats about it. Do not go above that boundary.

I feel like there are just as many gay guys who are strong, egoistic and protective. The problem in this case is that the co-worker who's been described is coming across like a closet case who is attracted to coffeespoons, not a straight man to whom coffeespoons has an unrequited attraction. He's trying to figure out how to deal with/confront this guy about his inappropriate behavior if he has no intentions of coming out and plans to just continue using coffeespoons for his weird flirtations.

 

[coffeespoons]

Well, all, I have updates on this troubling situation. School has started back up and, as such, I have done my best to distance myself from "straight" boy (let's call him Kyle). The minute things commenced, I started getting regular text messages. I tried not to read too much into them. I had to be there for campus orientation, which he also attended, and within five minutes of our being reunited he was touching my shoulder. We were asked to speak to incoming students and as we gathered in a room, he made a beeline for the seat right next to me. Within moments, he was crossing his legs toward me and fidgeting like he was nervous. I think he noticed I was more abrupt with him than usual and also hung around him less, so he tried even harder. One night he even sent a text that said (I'm fairly certain his wife was out of town that night on a job), "In interest in one or several cats? There are some outside my apartment. I know you like cats." I replied, "Not on your life."

One night riding home on the train with a friend (let's call her Nancy), he said, "I feel like [my name] is so cold and distant lately. What's going on with him? Is he okay?" Nancy said, "You need to talk to him." She told me about this right after.

He approached me in our office area the following week and asked if I was okay and said he was worried. This is totally out of character for him, so I said, "I'm a little disarmed by you acting like a human being and showing concern." I told him I was overextended and got the heck out of there. Then he texted me and said, "That crack about me acting like a human was you trying to diffuse the emotional intimacy." I agreed to have a sit down conversation with him and tell him what was up with me. I also texted Nancy and said, "We're going to talk finally. But he is chicken shit, so he'll come to you again to try to pry about me. Don't let him. Keep referring him to me until we talk." She agreed.

Well, she lied. The two of them went out for drinks one night and he brought me up again. She cracked. She said, "Listen, one of the first times we hung out together, you brought up a billion times the fact that you'd never experimented before. And you say one thing and do another, like one minute you'll be talking about wanting to have kids, but in the same breath you'll say that your wife and you know divorce happens and is an option. Whatever is going on with you is getting projected on [my name]." She never told me how he reacted other than to suggest he had no awareness that he'd crossed any boundaries with me. She still encouraged me to talk to him.

That very night, without revealing to me he had this conversation with Nancy, he sent me a strange text message asking if I knew about an LGBT essay contest. I told him no but thanks and left it at that. A few nights later, he sent me an article by a scholar we'd talked about a long time ago. A few nights after that, he sent me a forward to another essay contest. Monday, a friend of mine asked what was going on between us. "What do you mean?" I asked. "When we were waiting for our trains after class," she said, "he didn't say bye to you when you got on yours. But he peered around the column like four times once you went to watch you go. It was like watching a seventh grader with a crush." Yesterday, he tried to catch me in my office but I was with a student so he backed away. Today, he popped by as I was leaving my office and told me he wanted to pick my brain about something religious (my educational background). It felt more like an excuse to talk than something he actually wanted to know. And during our class together today, he planted himself in the seat directly across the room from me. I felt him looking up several times at me and then looking away. He also does this thing were he turns his head directly toward me and scratches his ear or rubs one eye so there's an excuse to look at me.

I don't know what to do, guys. I guess we can have a talk, but I don't expect him to confess anything. But the problem is, whether or not he confesses to a crush or feelings for me or whatever, he's still behaving like he does. He's still making constant attempts to be in my life despite my avoidance of him. He wants too much. It's like he wants me to be his work/school boyfriend without acknowledging that I'm his work/school boyfriend. I have no interest in having my emotional energy drained by someone who gives me nothing back.

What do I do or say? Avoidance is at least leaving me better off than I was last year, but it's still not enough.

 

[KaraBulut]

I guess we can have a talk, but I don't expect him to confess anything. But the problem is, whether or not he confesses to a crush or feelings for me or whatever, he's still behaving like he does. He's still making constant attempts to be in my life despite my avoidance of him. He wants too much. It's like he wants me to be his work/school boyfriend without acknowledging that I'm his work/school boyfriend. I have no interest in having my emotional energy drained by someone who gives me nothing back.

So, the behavior continues.

Your assumption that he will avoid being honest is your rationale for avoiding being honest with him?

Hmmm....

 

[coffeespoons]

So, the behavior continues.

Your assumption that he will avoid being honest is your rationale for avoiding being honest with him?

Hmmm....

Well, also my paranoia that this coward is going to rely on the "predatory gay man" trope and try to spin this all off as my problem, not his. I can only hope that the people who have witnessed his weirdness will come to my defense if he ever did anything like that. But considering what he's got to lose (his marriage, his breadwinner, his straight privilege, etc) I don't know what to expect from him.

I'm also a little freaked out. My friend practically told him, "We feel like your closet-y-ness is leaking out and you're being a creeper" and instead of avoiding me or trying to straighten up his act, he's still staring and been trying to contact me.

Yet will still talk about his wife as if nothing's up.

 

[TX-Beau]

If you're being harassed call the cops.

There comes a point where you are at fault for not rectifying the situation.

 

[TX-Beau]

And yes, it's pretty much that simple. You only make yourself look impotent by giving up any power over your own damn life.

We always have options, use them or admit you are enjoying the drama.

 

[coffeespoons]

You're right. I'm enjoying the drama so much that I've been intentionally avoiding/shutting down dude the moment school started back up. I didn't realize getting stared at or texted were offenses that police would actually respond to. I feel like guy has been playing it pretty safe, so I get to be creeped out but there's not a lot of tangibles that I can use against him. And yeah. I'm aware of my options. The issue is that all options seem to have pretty undesirable consequences. If I thought confronting him would magically solve all my problems and wouldn't have the potential to make matters worse, I would've done it already.

 

[Kyanimal]

Having just found this thread, and reading through it all, I"ll grant your "friend" has a problem, if not several.

However, as "Cold" as this might sound, those are His problems, not Yours! And, though I'm all for altruism, they are things He has to deal with, and it's not Your responsibility to take on any/all of His baggage!

Let's also be Truthful here. The fact that you feel some kind of "duty", to possibly help this guy figure out his own uncertainties, suggests you hold more than a casual interest in Him!

If you are finding that so uncomfortable, I urge you to take a deep look at your own feelings/desires, in regard to Him, and seriously consider a "reset"!

It seems you have as much of an attraction to Him, as He (seemingly/obviously) does to You!

You're allowing yourself to be drawn into a "No Win" situation! It's not just Him. It's Both of you!

For your own sake, I'd highly recommend, as difficult as it might be for You, to put that guy on personal "Ignore"!

He will Never by "Yours", or You "His", as much as you're granting him control of you as if you are "His".

Be social. Be friendly. Be pleasant. But that's it!

You have allowed this dude to get under your skin, and into your Heart, where he doesn't belong, and sounds like he never will.

On the other hand, since Time is so short, and none of us are going to survive Life anyway, if you'd be willing to abandon your own morals, with the gravity of "morals" being questionable in the long run (What's the Real point?), it also sounds like you might be passing up the opportunity of a "Lifetime", to "Bag" a Hot "Straight" Man, on "The Down Low", and fuck each other, like bunnies, curl each others' toes, and make some Awesome stories to remember in both your old ages!

Do not loose sight that those choices are Yours to make. And, nothing is written in stone.

All the more reasons to ... No Matter What ...

Keep Smilin'!!
Chaz