Publicity of the Titanic

[doctorsun]

God, Doctorsun what a wealth of knowledge! I am most impressed. If I didnt know any better I would assume you were president of the Titanic Historical Society. The ship was not known to have split in two as many witnesses did not recall this fact except for young 17 year old Jack Thayer who drew a diagram and swore by the occurrence. It wasnt until Sept. 1, 1985 he was proven right as Dr. Ballard found the wreck on that day.

Whether or not the ship broke in two was quite the contraversy immediately following the sinking. The ships officers all swore that the ship sank intact and therefore, both the British and US inquiries into the disaster found likewise. Several witnesses claimed until the day they died that the ship broke in two. This, of course was proven when the wreck was found, which led to speculation that perhaps White Star swore the officers to secrecy so as not to imply the ship had been poorly-made.

In recent years, a lot of studies have shown that the breaking of the ship was not accurately protrayed in the movie. In the movie, the ship snaps in half dramatically and the stern falls causing a huge wave. If that had happened, I think it would have been very difficult to dispute that the ship broke up at all. Every single survivor would have seen it and there's no way White Star could have covered it up. Yet, even some survivors with no connection to White Star and no reason to lie also swore the ship sank intact. Instead, it's more likely that the ship broke apart more slowly, with much of the breaking taking place under the waterline. It was almost universal testimony, from both sides of the breaking argument, that the stern settled back in the water, almost to an even keel, before rising vertically and finally sinking. This lends to the theory of a slower breaking. So, while it makes for a dramatic scene in the movie, the breaking of the ship wasn't quite as spectacular as Jame Cameron would have us believe.

Also, it has been found that the ship broke into three sections, not just two, and likely broke from the keep up, not from the top down.

By the way, I'm by no means an expert. There are people who live and breath Titanic...even I don't have that kind of attention span.

 

[tommyj]

I agree DrSun. I think if it had been as dramatic as the movie scores would have remembered it. The movie also caused me great angina when I saw the depiction of First Officer Murdoch shooting and killing someone. He did not - and, in fact, performed most admirably in evacuating people. In fact, there is dispute whether any shots were fired at all (one report was that an officer fired down along the side of the ship to quell some rowdiness).

 

[doctorsun]

The story of a shooting has been around for a long time. Most accounts have it as Murdoch shooting a passenger (or simply firing into the water, or both) others say it was Chief Officer Boxhall. I don't think it's completely unsubstantiated as I believe there were actual accounts of it, but given the ambiguous details, it very well could be just a myth. It makes for a powerful scene in a movie, though (other films have shown such a scene, as well).

To me, the worst offense the movie makes is making it seem like Frederick Fleet and Reginald Lee missed seeing the iceberg in time because they were watching Jack and Rose on the deck. They watch them kissing, have a conversation, then turn and see the iceberg - too late, of course. I find this detail highly offensive to the memories of the lookouts.

 

[gsdx]

To me, the worst offense the movie makes is making it seem like Frederick Fleet and Reginald Lee missed seeing the iceberg in time because they were watching Jack and Rose on the deck. They watch them kissing, have a conversation, then turn and see the iceberg - too late, of course. I find this detail highly offensive to the memories of the lookouts.

I haven't seen the new movie and haven't heard about that scene. However, I find it in very poor taste as well and a shame to their memories.

 

[doctorsun]

This is the scene:

 

[doctorsun]

And here's an interesting video about the most recent theory about the break-up of the ship:

 

[Level27]

I agree DrSun. I think if it had been as dramatic as the movie scores would have remembered it.

However, tommyj, the point of fact is that, as you stated, young 17-year-old second-class passenger John (Jack) witnessed it and was proven right when Dr. R. Ballard found the wreck.

Whether or not the ship broke in two was quite the contraversy immediately following the sinking. The ships officers all swore that the ship sank intact and therefore, both the British and US inquiries into the disaster found likewise. Several witnesses claimed until the day they died that the ship broke in two. This, of course was proven when the wreck was found, which led to speculation that perhaps White Star swore the officers to secrecy so as not to imply the ship had been poorly-made.

In recent years, a lot of studies have shown that the breaking of the ship was not accurately protrayed in the movie. In the movie, the ship snaps in half dramatically and the stern falls causing a huge wave. If that had happened, I think it would have been very difficult to dispute that the ship broke up at all. Every single survivor would have seen it and there's no way White Star could have covered it up.

But then, what of the claim of the few survivors who did indeed witness the devastation? If they there was no reason for them to lie about the sinking, surely, wouldn't what they witnessed have some credibility?

Also, in my most humble guess/assumption/prediction/assertion, the first few lifeboats (that were barely half full before they were lowered) departed early on; this was way before the forward funnel was even counfounded, let alone the stern hugging the sky. The survivor who rode in those boats may have been the ones to have said on assumption that the ship sank as one piece. One has to take into account that these passengers, by the time they saw the stern sticking upwards, has already moved so far away from the sinking that the sight of the titanic was all but the size of a ball point pen. Perhaps they were close enough to barely se the stern's angle but then later wasn't close enough to see the split at all.

All in all, there was no saying that Cameron himself believed the split was sufficiently accurate in the events that occured. I think he simply added that in there because he founded it to be a good drama to add to the suspense. Hey, all typical movie producers fudge things up a little just to make it more dramatic, don't they?

 

[Jory]

And here's an interesting video about the most recent theory about the break-up of the ship:

I saw that on the History Channel I believe his theory was not proven

 

[tommyj]

Yes - level 27, I have a book that has sketches that Jack Thayer drew. As I recall he had depicted the ship splitting in two about two-thirds of the way back and actually had the smaller half pivoting 180 degrees around before going upright and then sinking!

 

[doctorsun]

Yes - level 27, I have a book that has sketches that Jack Thayer drew. As I recall he had depicted the ship splitting in two about two-thirds of the way back and actually had the smaller half pivoting 180 degrees around before going upright and then sinking!

Yes, Jack Thayer's drawings showed the bow rising back to the surface. However, it's now believe that what he actually saw was the Grand Staircase rising to the surface. This is one aspect of the sinking that was actually discovered during the making of the movie. The movie's Grand Staircase was an exact replica...made of the same materials and constructed in the same way...and during filming, it broke free of the ship and rose to the surface, so it's possible that this is what Thayer saw. No other witness ever testified to seeing the bow rise.

As for the breaking theory I posted above, no, it's not proven. It's impossible to prove. However, it does seem to be the most likely scenario given the wildly varying stories told about the break-up/non-break-up of the ship.

 

[Jory]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6vdR5Hp91Y&feature=related"]

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R.M.S. Titanic Whisle