"Queer as Folk" and "Six Feet Under": required watching for gays?

[MGTuohey]

I love both shows...great fun...but too may gay guys seems totally screwed up and willing to mold themselves into stereotypical roles. I dont think either is good as "The Essential Gay Man 101 required viewing material"

 

[Lube]

I know one person who admitted (in a rather shame-faced fashion) that something about human nature became clear to him while watching an episode of Dinosaurs.

I hereby suggest, therefore, that this is an important show that all people watch in order to better understand the human condition.

Lex

Neither show casts gays in a positive light so i would say neither.

I would love to see a gay version of The cosby show or family ties. Now that would be great for our community.

There would be people who would say Modern Family on ABC does that. Not sure I agree with them.

I love both shows...great fun...but too may gay guys seems totally screwed up and willing to mold themselves into stereotypical roles. I dont think either is good as "The Essential Gay Man 101 required viewing material"

As I said, this thread isn't about indoctrination.

It's certainly fair to say neither show is useful as entertaining ways to explore issues with being gay.

What would you suggest instead? Remember, we're not talking documentaries here. Current shows also don't count, since obviously knowledge about them is pretty widespread among young guys.

What movies/books/TV would you recommend to a gay guy struggling with accepting himself and/or coming out, and wanting to see how it's possible to live life and deal with issues relevant to gays?

 

[Lube]

I can suggest other stuff to read or view, but everyone has their own opinions. "Tales of the City" was much more realistic and all encompassing, but everyone has their opinions.

Thanks for the suggestion. (I think I missed it because you mentioned documentaries in the next line. Mea culpa)

I have added it to my Netflix queue.

 

[G-Lexington]

>>>What movies/books/TV would you recommend to a gay guy struggling with accepting himself and/or coming out, and wanting to see how it's possible to live life and deal with issues relevant to gays?

I spend a lot of time with gays and lesbians having trouble coming to grips with themselves and their sexualities. But I wouldn't ever suggest a TV show or a movie to help them do that. Not that one definitely WOULDN'T help - like in my friend's case, watching Dinosaurs helped - but I don't think pointing them towards an element of popular culture is the way to achieve that goal. For one thing, movies and TV shows are very much subjective. As seen in this thread, some people can love a show and others might hate it. And if they don't like the show, pointing them in that direction won't just "not help". but it might actually be detrimental. If they find themselves not relating (or actively disliking) something that's supposed to give them a sense of betterment, that might simply cause them to draw a deeper divide between themselves and "the gay community". Not just between themselves and the gays on the show, but themselves and the people who suggested the show, which they might expand out to include the entire set. ("This is what gays like?") Secondly, it's popular entertainment. Even shows that are "slice of life" simplify their issues for mass consumption. I've found it much more helpful to actually deal with the problem directly. If they live in my area, I invite them out with a night with me and my friends, for instance, to give them one (if only one) real world example of gays existing out-and-proud in the world. And that's usually more than enough to encourage them that they can make the same move.

I'll say that in all my years advising gay and questioning folks, I can't recall ever being asked by somebody for a movie or TV show to help them "see how it's possible to live life and deal with issues relevant to gays". Sometimes, I've had them ask about any "good gay movies", and at that point, I say something like "I quite liked 'Maurice'" or "I thought 'Jeffrey' was pretty funny." But at that point, I'm simply mentioning movies I like that happen to have gay characters or gay situations. I'm not attempting to "help via media". And I certainly don't think either of those movies is "important" for anyone to see - I just liked them.

Lex

 

[Lube]

But I wouldn't ever suggest a TV show or a movie to help them do that. ... I don't think pointing them towards an element of popular culture is the way to achieve that goal.... I've found it much more helpful to actually deal with the problem directly. If they live in my area, I invite them out with a night with me and my friends, for instance, to give them one (if only one) real world example of gays existing out-and-proud in the world. And that's usually more than enough to encourage them that they can make the same move.

I'll say that in all my years advising gay and questioning folks, I can't recall ever being asked by somebody for a movie or TV show to help them "see how it's possible to live life and deal with issues relevant to gays".

I totally agree, Lex, and I would never suggest that Queer as Folk is the only thing they need to accept themselves. As you suggest, that's utterly ludicrous.

Suggesting a movie or TV show would be one step--perhaps the first step--in showing someone who has only seen negative stereotypes that there are gay people out there that--day to day--deal with the shit that comes up when you're gay. It's something they can view at their own pace, in their own space, and doesn't require them to actually be out or visible in public. And it's something we can suggest even on an Internet site like JUB, where we don't have personal access to our "clients" the way that you do.

In fact, there's a new post on the Coming Out forum right now that deals with coming out to a dying parent. This was covered in QaF, although of course the situations are somewhat different. Note that I replied to him, and didn't even mention QaF, because that would almost trivialize his real life experience.

Movies and shows such as these are good to help us think about situations and how we might react. They are by no means meant to be any kind of "bible" as to how we should act.

Maybe that's why I'm an atheist. I don't even think the Bible should be used as a "bible" for your life. No writing--no matter how "perfect" or wonderful--can ever account for the complexities of real life.

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

>>>What movies/books/TV would you recommend to a gay guy struggling with accepting himself and/or coming out, and wanting to see how it's possible to live life and deal with issues relevant to gays?

I spend a lot of time with gays and lesbians having trouble coming to grips with themselves and their sexualities. But I wouldn't ever suggest a TV show or a movie to help them do that. Not that one definitely WOULDN'T help - like in my friend's case, watching Dinosaurs helped - but I don't think pointing them towards an element of popular culture is the way to achieve that goal. For one thing, movies and TV shows are very much subjective. As seen in this thread, some people can love a show and others might hate it. And if they don't like the show, pointing them in that direction won't just "not help". but it might actually be detrimental. If they find themselves not relating (or actively disliking) something that's supposed to give them a sense of betterment, that might simply cause them to draw a deeper divide between themselves and "the gay community". Not just between themselves and the gays on the show, but themselves and the people who suggested the show, which they might expand out to include the entire set. ("This is what gays like?") Secondly, it's popular entertainment. Even shows that are "slice of life" simplify their issues for mass consumption. I've found it much more helpful to actually deal with the problem directly. If they live in my area, I invite them out with a night with me and my friends, for instance, to give them one (if only one) real world example of gays existing out-and-proud in the world. And that's usually more than enough to encourage them that they can make the same move.

I'll say that in all my years advising gay and questioning folks, I can't recall ever being asked by somebody for a movie or TV show to help them "see how it's possible to live life and deal with issues relevant to gays". Sometimes, I've had them ask about any "good gay movies", and at that point, I say something like "I quite liked 'Maurice'" or "I thought 'Jeffrey' was pretty funny." But at that point, I'm simply mentioning movies I like that happen to have gay characters or gay situations. I'm not attempting to "help via media". And I certainly don't think either of those movies is "important" for anyone to see - I just liked them.

Lex

go read it ans may be a ya no see what ya write

they no gay characters! they a actors on falt screen doin of whateva script writers ans da culture of day got ins da soup play ta audience a make anythings a want ofs a it oh yeah include all da pap runs da tubes

suggest countrys deal with real before da make believe of da ways of da so call modern insane wards what a call countrys

but see da ways ya thinkin

anyway real world figurin da pap of centurys feed in brains of da ready made package public what no can function with out da

here picture of da sun ans it hot ans if world health organization was a any a brain they quaratine most countrys fa back dated time ins da padded cells

what a save a many peoples of many colors ans race a lot of shit what a still a taday ins overkill

ans stuff

right dat ma bit

has goodins

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

I totally agree, Lex, and I would never suggest that Queer as Folk is the only thing they need to accept themselves. As you suggest, that's utterly ludicrous.

Suggesting a movie or TV show would be one step--perhaps the first step--in showing someone who has only seen negative stereotypes that there are gay people out there that--day to day--deal with the shit that comes up when you're gay. It's something they can view at their own pace, in their own space, and doesn't require them to actually be out or visible in public. And it's something we can suggest even on an Internet site like JUB, where we don't have personal access to our "clients" the way that you do.

In fact, there's a new post on the Coming Out forum right now that deals with coming out to a dying parent. This was covered in QaF, although of course the situations are somewhat different. Note that I replied to him, and didn't even mention QaF, because that would almost trivialize his real life experience.

Movies and shows such as these are good to help us think about situations and how we might react. They are by no means meant to be any kind of "bible" as to how we should act.

Maybe that's why I'm an atheist. I don't even think the Bible should be used as a "bible" for your life. No writing--no matter how "perfect" or wonderful--can ever account for the complexities of real life.

no they not

if world make realllllllllllllll life ans kids a make see it all ova da world what stuff with made up crap

then ya get start

ans internet not full of endless folk go on about 100000 versions da same thing

like lot folk of cultres stuck in mud of lot history piss their heart right place but a no do nothin whens alls public polishin their own KNOBS



happy times fa da humans left no contaminates a buy da so call modern cultures stills ins da soup of hell theirs a own makins

countrys eat popcron while their own countrys still cause death on planet ans folk use tv DRAMA ta figure out LIFE! it a thang it is Really a wired

 

[G-Lexington]

Well, the thing is, at that point, nearly any TV show that has a gay character in anything more than just a very superficial role will probably help. I don't recall any shows with gay characters that treat them as pariah or anything, so they all get across what's easily the most important point - being gay (and out) doesn't have to mean the end of the world. You can just "be gay", and still have a job, and (straight) friends, and wacky situations that resolve themselves in 22 minutes. Everything else really spools out from that. Will & Grace could do the job just as well as QaF of that.

Can they identify more with gay characters doing things? Well, not to be circular, but they can if they identify with them. But, as seen in this thread, some do and some don't. And as seen throughout JUB, JUBbers identify with all sorts of characters across the spectrum of TV and movies - be it a Golden Girl, a Sex and the City character, or the youngest smallest gargoyle with the side wings. And from what I've seen, QaF and SFU characters don't seem to connect specifically with a lot more gays (closeted or no) than characters from other shows. Given that, the best I can offer is "if somebody asks me for a show with gay characters and storylines, yeah, I'd say those two shows would be good choices." And while that doesn't directly contradict your original post, I'd say it's certainly a hellaciously watered-down version.

Lex

 

[FanofFiction]

Well, the thing is, at that point, nearly any TV show that has a gay character in anything more than just a very superficial role will probably help. I don't recall any shows with gay characters that treat them as pariah or anything, so they all get across what's easily the most important point - being gay (and out) doesn't have to mean the end of the world. You can just "be gay", and still have a job, and (straight) friends, and wacky situations that resolve themselves in 22 minutes. Everything else really spools out from that. Will & Grace could do the job just as well as QaF of that.

Can they identify more with gay characters doing things? Well, not to be circular, but they can if they identify with them. But, as seen in this thread, some do and some don't. And as seen throughout JUB, JUBbers identify with all sorts of characters across the spectrum of TV and movies - be it a Golden Girl, a Sex and the City character, or the youngest smallest gargoyle with the side wings. And from what I've seen, QaF and SFU characters don't seem to connect specifically with a lot more gays (closeted or no) than characters from other shows. Given that, the best I can offer is "if somebody asks me for a show with gay characters and storylines, yeah, I'd say those two shows would be good choices." And while that doesn't directly contradict your original post, I'd say it's certainly a hellaciously watered-down version.

Lex

Will and Grace!!! Best suggestion thus far. It helped me when I was in the closet. It helped my husband. It also helped a fair number of gay men that I know... not so much help for the lesbians though. I think it's great because it has your two primary gay characters, they are not automatically in love with each other. One is a flmaer and totally cool with it, the other is a successful lawyer and shall we say, 'less flakey' comfortably gay man. Love it.

 

[Lube]

Will and Grace!!! Best suggestion thus far. It helped me when I was in the closet. It helped my husband. It also helped a fair number of gay men that I know... not so much help for the lesbians though. I think it's great because it has your two primary gay characters, they are not automatically in love with each other. One is a flmaer and totally cool with it, the other is a successful lawyer and shall we say, 'less flakey' comfortably gay man. Love it.

That was a very funny show!

 

[Lube]

Was the comment "straight men don't have a sensitive side" just the context of a conversation? It seemed like a pretty strong (hateful) statement.

Was the comment about every gay man being feminine just the context of a conversation? That was a strong statement as well (not at all hateful, but very ignorant).

I've said long ago that I realize that stereotypes exist for a reason. I simply do not go around preaching them or judging people based on them, because I know how it is to constantly fall short of them and feel like the outsider because of it.

Yes, advertisers target different communities for different reasons. Thing is, I'm not a walking demographic for an advertiser--I'm a fucking human being. And I see the people I come in contact day to day the same way as well--as human beings.

You and I will never agree on things because when I meet someone, the first thing I love to do is meet them through their own words, opinions, and points of view. You on the other hand, like to formulate who they are based on race, sexuality, etc., and then project all the qualities you have in your narrow-minded mind until proven otherwise. I would never judge people in such a way.

But hey, go ahead. Put every gay man in a box under the idea of concept of "pride." I do think it's funny that you so sharply went from one extreme to another, and it won't get any less funny. Even after you're put on ignore.

Saying gay men are more sensitive than straight men is "hateful"? Gee, you seem a little... oversensitive.

I never said every gay man is feminine. You are confusing me with Dduder or slnatak. Or exaggerating what I said. You make it sound like I believe every gay guy walks around with a feather boa and a lisp. Jasun isn't feminine. He's very masculine. But he clearly has some feminine traits. As do I. So what?

You're the one who's making the judgment call that "some feminine traits" = bad.

Why didn't you rail against this thread, where JUBbers themselves say how they could clearly see some effeminate traits in themselves even as young boys?

No, in your mind, Lube=evil, no matter what I say, no matter what topic, even if I agree with you on some things.

Black. White. Your world.

If, on the other hand, you want to meet for a drink, just let me know. I'll treat you with the same respect and honor that I treated the JUBbers who I served dinner to at our house (see my gallery).

 

[strangepoetry]

I know I'm bumping up an old thread that caused some friction and stirred debate, but I just wanted to say that to anyone who hasn't watched the show Six Feet Under and may be thinking about it, please go ahead and check it out.

It's really a great show in general...not just for the gay storylines. I started watching it because of this thread, and never expected to love it as much as I did. The writing, the acting, everything is just amazing...

Bears repeating: best finale to a series I've EVER seen. Still gives me goosebumps.

 

[FanofFiction]

Dante's Cove and The Lair. Both are terribly written, horribly acted, and I don't think either had a point... but they're gay and hot. Watch them.

 

[strangepoetry]

Dante's Cove and The Lair. Both are terribly written, horribly acted, and I don't think either had a point... but they're gay and hot. Watch them.

I couldn't make it through more than a couple episodes of Dante's Cove. I felt like I was getting dumber as I watched it. Awful.

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

all world>tv run by nappy wipes with thumb up their butt what slugs

so

end off planet

Lot countrys populations moronic stuuupid not deserve planet earth

thankyou

-

how invent toon spit - has guess

 

[strangepoetry]

all world>tv run by nappy wipes with thumb up their butt what slugs

so

end off planet

Lot countrys populations moronic stuuupid not deserve planet earth

thankyou

-

how invent toon spit - has guess

Oh Sloppy, you're TOOO pessimistic sometimes.
World's not THAT bad.

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

Oh Sloppy, you're TOOO pessimistic sometimes.
World's not THAT bad.

no word describe da 100 years of cultures shit waste on super shit control da toys make super nappy wipes

obvious lot cultures so full shit theys a turn inta theirs dream

 

[strangepoetry]

no word describe da 100 years of cultures shit waste on super shit control da toys make super nappy wipes

obvious lot cultures so full shit theys a turn inta theirs dream

Like I said...TOO pessimistic.

That's the way nature (i.e The World) works. Nature is indifferent. Heaven/Hell, Good/Bad--can't have one without the other. Animals eat each other. We're all predators and/or prey. That's the natural course of life, the law of nature. There will never be a perfect Utopia where everyone's thoughts and ideas and cultures interlock into the absolute model of Harmony. You'll never fix everything, but take heed in the fact that you can shape your own circumstances and experience into something close to tolerable.

(Or something like that...)

 

[Centipede]

I know I'm bumping up an old thread that caused some friction and stirred debate, but I just wanted to say that to anyone who hasn't watched the show Six Feet Under and may be thinking about it, please go ahead and check it out.

It's really a great show in general...not just for the gay storylines. I started watching it because of this thread, and never expected to love it as much as I did. The writing, the acting, everything is just amazing...

SFU is not a gay show idk why it's put next to QAF (terribad show).

and it's one of the best shows i've ever watched. best finale i've ever seen on tv.

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

Like I said...TOO pessimistic.

That's the way nature (i.e The World) works. Nature is indifferent. Heaven/Hell, Good/Bad--can't have one without the other. Animals eat each other. We're all predators and/or prey. That's the natural course of life, the law of nature. There will never be a perfect Utopia where everyone's thoughts and ideas and cultures interlock into the absolute model of Harmony. You'll never fix everything, but take heed in the fact that you can shape your own circumstances and experience into something close to tolerable.

(Or something like that...)

dat media dribble cultures dribble pants alls wewe da sum ofs a insanes

-

nature way more cause it not ans classified

how many toes got feet?