Question about Brokeback Mountain.

[gmoney]

http://justusboys.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2026180&postcount=22

 

[JakeBequette]

He was murdered.​

 

[Joshua_me]

Odd.

I *just* finished watching this on HBO, for about the 10th time or so.

(As cliched as the "I just wish I knew how to quit you" line became,
it still brings tears to my eyes... Hell, just typing it out... )

It's a rare film in that it seems like rather a simple story at first, but blossoms
with deeper and deeper levels the more one watches it.

But, back to the question: It's hard to tell what really happened to Jack,
Ang Lee left it purposely ambiguous... Was that scene just in Ennis' mind, or
did it really happen ? There's no real way to tell.

And in a way, I suppose it doesn't matter.

Watching it this time through, I was struck by how great the actress was that played Jack's Mom. (I don't even know her name) But she says more with her facial expressions than even the best-written script ever could.

Those final scenes will haunt me forever.

Josh

 

[luminum]

No, I definitely thinks he had him murdered, or at least knew about it.

Rmember when she says, "Jack kept a lot of his friend's numbers in his hat..." whens he talks about Ennis being his friend.

I think that implies that she knows about his deceit and while possibly not directly involved, she may have known and consented.

 

[Muscles4daze]

I read the short story, it was in his mind. He died in an accident.

 

[luminum]

Um, I think when the line says "She said it was an accident..., but he knew they had got him witht he tire iron." it doesn't mean that it's just in his head and doesn't mean that what Jack's wife said was the truth.

While it doesn't discount the possibility of it being an accident, I think it's meant to be unsure. I thimk that the way she wrote the story, it would be fitting if it was a gay bash.

 

[iflookscouldkill]

Yeah, the woman that played Jack's mother was really good, you could tell just from her looking at Ennis that she knew something had happened between them.

 

[Kurn]

I read the short story and carefully.

But perhaps Ang Lee meant for the demise of Jack to be connected with all such events as well as with the social frustrations that breed them.

To at least a tiny extent we are all responsible for what happened to Matthew Shepard and to 'Jack Twist.' That is, we all participate in the mystery of it all. Perhaps not the violence. But still we can't quite figure out how to undo it all.
Ennis wasn't able to undo the "knot."
In other words, to spell it out; it wasn't just a Gay film...
It's a great movie.

 

[bcwang]

I think annie proulx in her short story quite explicitly implied that Jack was murdered.

 

[Curious George]

I only saw the movie once when it first came out. However, this is what I took away from the ending.

1. Jack wants a regular relationship and has started one with another man in the town where he lives.

2. He and the man are planning on moving in together in their own cabin and both will leave their wives.

3. Jack and his father-in-law, who is fairly rich and powerful. Have never gotten along.

4. When Jack's intentions are made clear, the father-in-law set Jack up to be murdered in a gay bashing.

5. Jack's wife tells the story that people claim happened when we see what really happened.

6. Jack's demise echoes the episode Ennis' father made him watch as a lad.

7. Jack's mother obviously knows who Ennis is and is aware of Jack and what probably happened to him.

 

[tonyboy]

Jack was murdered by gay-bashers... pure and simple. He was after all known as a guy that cruised the streets of the border towns.

The woman that portrayed Jacks mom was excellent.... she said so much with her eyes and body language. She knew what her son was, a fine man that only wanted to be with the person he loved most.

I've seen this movie twice and the second time was better than the first. The next time will even be better I think. As someone wrote ^, there are many layers to this story and each viewing reveals another layer.

I still think the best scene, the one that makes me the most happy is when Jack and Ennis meet after being apart for so many years, When Jack drives to Ennis' apartment and they kiss outside of the building. Deep and passionate love is shown by their embrace. Damn fine acting that is and a very moving scene.

 

[CaptainJohn]

Ennis had Jack murdered.

He found a way to quit him.

 

[james1200]

i just saw it for the first time this morning on HBO...ugh. i wish i didn't. what a depress-fest.

they showed a brief clip of jack being beaten to death without setting it up or explaining it afterwards but obviously it was some sort of gay bashing. wasn't he supposed to hook up with that other married guy (not ennis) in a cabin somewhere right when he died? maybe they got caught or something...

ennis was caught off guard when he heard that jack was murdered. remember the look on his face when jack's wife told him over the phone??...that was the most emotion he showed in the movie.

 

[HartfordGuy]

For lots of great Brokeback discussion, go to www.BetterMost.Net

 

[bcwang]

She died just after the movie released if I remember rightly.....

What?! Oh How awful...

 

[Joshua_me]

But perhaps Ang Lee meant for the demise of Jack to be connected with all such events as well as with the social frustrations that breed them.

To at least a tiny extent we are all responsible for what happened to 'Jack Twist.' That is, we all participate in the mystery of it all. Ennis wasn't able to undo the "knot."

That's a great observation, Kurn.

There's SO much symbolism in the book and the film...
I notice more and more each time.

(The 'slaughtered lamb', the tractor named 'Versatile'...things that
*should* have been obvious to me at first....)

I guess I'm too involved in the story to be my usual subliminal self.

Josh

 

[JackFTwist]

I think annie proulx in her short story quite explicitly implied that Jack was murdered.

I agree.

The timing of the story - published in the New Yorker in 1997, a story about Wyoming, was just weeks before Mathew Shephard was murdered in Laramie. While Jack was murdered in Texas, it is a very eery coincidence - or something that Proulx was tapping into with her author's insight, that being gay can get you killed, the very thing that Ennis feared. That sets up the final scene in story and book - "Jack, I swear..."

I have seen the film innumberable times and read the story more than that. It is great writing that moves me, that is a masterful movie that leaves me crying throughout.

 

[Centexfarmer]

I read the short story, it was in his mind. He died in an accident.

See, I got that in both the short story, and the film.

I also got that, considering Ennis' early childhood experience, that it was also left up to the reader/audience to decide which really happened.

In other words, you get to decide which it was.

 

[Centexfarmer]

But then that scene would've been completely pointless if he didn't get murdered. This was just a straight forward story of two people in love, in a society that doesn't accept it. And what happens in the world around them because of it.

Jack was murdered, I don't see why it would leave it 'open'. There was no reason to. In what was shown of how their relationship would not be tolerated at all, and his death being an 'accident' would've been real stupid.

Jack Died. Now whether it was an accident as Jack's wife described...which she seemed a little indifferent about, or he was murdered as Ennis envisioned it...either of those two scenarios are open to interpretation. That's all I'm saying.

I like that both indifference of one character was shown at the same time of Ennis' fear and hurt about what he was hearing. Either way the point about Jack's death is that he died. Jack's death is what touched Ennis' life.

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[JackFTwist]

The short story is less clear than the movie but I think it is yet clear that Jack was murdered for being gay. The short story makes a greater emphasis that Jack died alone (without the one he loved). The movie by its visualization of what Ennis thinks in the short story is mor direct that Jack was murdered. Going back to the short story, it is clear that Jack's wife goes into an official story when talking to Ennis, who she had figured out was Jack'slover. Of course there was an official story, no one would say that Jack was gay. And no one dies that way by accident, it is an official story to explain his dead body on the side of the road with the face bashed in. Anie Proulx is too good of a writer. If she just wanted to say Jack died in an accident, that would be what was clear.

The two collections of her Wyoming stories that include Brokeback Mountain are well worth reading.