Racial Segregation in the Washington DC area

[JayQueer]

I found an interesting article online, and I thought it might be good for discussion. Even if you're not from the Washington DC area, this might be interesting --

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...census-shows/2011/10/14/gIQAbCc1TM_story.html

The Washington Post did an article about the changing racial diversity of the Washington DC area. They noted that in the last 20 years, most DC suburbs are becoming more diverse. The number of all-white neighborhoods is declining, as Asian-Americans and Latinos are moving into suburban areas such as Fairfax County & Loudoun County, Virginia and Montgomery County, Maryland.

But what they also found that the number of neighborhoods that are all or overwhelmingly African-American are increasing, particularly in Prince George's County, Maryland, which is adjacent to Southeast Washington DC.

Prince George's County is a unique case study because it is known as America's wealthiest county with a majority African-American population. Many neighborhoods in Prince George's County are both majority African-American & have routinely have household incomes at around, or above $100,000.

(As a side note, Prince George's County votes overwhelmingly for the Democratic party, but because of their religious beliefs, most residents are strongly opposed to homosexuality & gay marriage)

But while Prince George's County has become a "Black millionaire's mecca," White residents have been fleeing the county in droves and Asian-Americans and Latinos are generally not moving in either. Many affluent Black residents have relocated to Prince George's from other areas, citing a desire to live among other successful African-Americans and to live in a place where "race isn't everything."

But isn't that the irony?

While Prince George's has been successful in becoming an enclave for affluent African-Americans, what does it say when people of one race only wish to live among other people who look just like they do?

Is it okay to only criticize all-white (or mostly all-white) neighborhoods for not being inclusive to others, when people of another race or ethnicity voluntarily segregate themselves into their own neighborhoods?

What do you guys think about the article?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...census-shows/2011/10/14/gIQAbCc1TM_story.html

I'm curious about what you guys think of the article...........especially if you are from the Washington DC area.

 

[hendley]

My read of the article is that is it isn't so much that Blacks voluntarily self segregate, but Whites Asians and Hispanics don't want to live near them.

Here are some quotes from the article that supports this interpretation:

"A lot of white people don’t want to live around black people"

and

"Many whites remain unwilling to buy houses in black neighborhoods, Logan said, and so are most Asians"

From my personal experience this is true. Growing up here in "liberal open-minded" California a good friend of the family, who also lived in the same complex we lived in, was a retired African American minister. A Japaneses family moved into the unit next to his and after a few months they moved out. The reason was simple the retired Black minister they lived next to did not have a job, but drove a nice Cadillac therefore they though he was a drug dealer.

Ludicrous!!!

 

[JayHawk]

All I know about DC is:

Generally speaking if you are on a street named after a southern state then you better know how to defend yourself.

I have observed self segregation for a long long time in the very integrated military. Shrug.

There are similar stories about bused kids doing the same segregation even though they were bused to different schools to end that and give a wider experience.

The vast difference is that previously white people had neighborhoods where they told blacks and Jews not to move in. And if they did move in then the pressures up to and including violence started to get them out.

Self segregation is a choice and there is nothing wrong with enjoying your community or your ethnicity.

 

[MisterMajestic]

I found an interesting article online, and I thought it might be good for discussion. Even if you're not from the Washington DC area, this might be interesting --

Is it okay to only criticize all-white (or mostly all-white) neighborhoods for not being inclusive to others, when people of another race or ethnicity voluntarily segregate themselves into their own neighborhoods?

JayQueer.....You're "Indian" but you talk about everything but your Indian race....I find that interesting...My home-state Governor Nickey Haley is also Indian but when she fills out certain applications she'll place a "check-mark" by "white"....Gov. Haley skips right over the little-block that states "Native American"......She was questioned about it a while back and was too embarrassed to answer...

I'm sure you're proud of your American Indian heritage...Do you feel that if you start a thread about "Indians" in America you won't get as many responses?

___________________________________________________
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[SonOfSlobone]

Prince George's County is a unique case study because it is known as America's wealthiest county with a majority African-American population. Many neighborhoods in Prince George's County are both majority African-American & have routinely have household incomes at around, or above $100,000.

That just means if you have two wage earners, they each make 50K a year. That hardly qualifies as wealthy these days.

 

[JayQueer]

JayQueer.....You're "Indian" but you talk about everything but your Indian race....I find that interesting...My home-state Governor Nickey Haley is also Indian but when she fills out certain applications she'll place a "check-mark" by "white"....Gov. Haley skips right over the little-block that states "Native American"......She was questioned about it a while back and was too embarrassed to answer...

I'm sure you're proud of your American Indian heritage...Do you feel that if you start a thread about "Indians" in America you won't get as many responses?

I think you are confusing "American Indians" and "Indian Americans". They are very different.

"American Indians" refers to "Native Americans" or the indigenous people of the Americas, before Europeans came here.

"Indian Americans" refers to people who are originally from South Asia, or the Indian subcontinent (India, Pakistan, Nepal, Bengladesh, Burma, Sri Lanka). I am Indian-American.

In the U.S. Census, "Indian Americans" are classified as "Asian Americans."

Gov. Nikki Haley of SC is Indian-American. She should have checked off the "Asian-American" box as her ethnicity. She is not White, although her husband is.

By the way, the Washington DC area has a large number of Indian-Americans (who are classified as Asian-Americans). They live mostly in Fairfax County, Virginia, but also in Loudoun County & Montgomery County, Maryland.

 

[SonOfSlobone]

Gov. Nikki Haley of SC is Indian-American. She should have checked off the "Asian-American" box as her ethnicity. She is not White, although her husband is.

That's not completely clear either. In the old division, people from India were considered part of the Caucasian race, same as Europeans. People from East Asia, as well as Native Americans, were grouped together as Mongoloid.

In the US, the term Asian-American usually refers to East Asians, whereas in the UK it generally refers to South Asians (Indians and Pakistanis). Obviously these terms aren't very helpful, and most serious scientific study of race now tends to deny that it's a concept with any clearly identifiable meaning.

 

[-Kane-]

PG County isn't unlike any community around the United States. White flight and Black self-segregation has been the trend for many decades.

So whatevers.......

 

[JayQueer]

PG County isn't unlike any community around the United States. White flight and Black self-segregation has been the trend for many decades.

So whatevers.......

No, the big difference though is that Prince George's County is an affluent suburban county that is mostly African-American, and becoming a magnet for affluent African-Americans..

The article mentioned that there aren't many places like PG County at all. DeKalb county (Atlanta) has a lot of African-Americans, but their average income is no where close to the average income in PG County..

In counties or areas that are overwhelmingly African-American AND low-income/ high crime, it would be understandable that 1) Whites, Asians, etc. would not want to live in a high crime area, so they don't move there, and 2) many of the African-American residents in a low-income/high crime area may not have the financial resources to leave for a safer & more affluent neighborhood. So the racial segregation in those areas may not necessarily be by "choice."

But in the case of PG County, it is a relatively safe area that is affluent (by national standards). PG County is also much closer for commuters to Washington DC than other suburbs.

And yet, Whites and Asian-Americans aren't moving in. And middle class to upper-middle class African-Americans are making a conscious choice to buy new homes in upscale subdivisions in PG County where almost everyone is African American and willingly send their children to schools where over 90% of the students are African-American.

That's why I think that PG County is an interesting case.

 

[Danncer128]

I go to University of Maryland which is in PG County. I never got the feeling that the county had all that great of a reputation and I still feel that way after living there for 4 years. As a matter of fact, kinda glad I'll be getting out of there in May. The crime is getting ridiculous not just near campus but county wide. I mean a guy tried to rob an elementary school earlier this week...not sure what he thought he was going to get.

I mean for the time I've lived there, I'm really not sure where these nicer, richer communities are...and being next to montgomery county, which is like millionaire haven has to give the people in PG County a complex haha!

 

[JayQueer]

I mean for the time I've lived there, I'm really not sure where these nicer, richer communities are...

I think the article was referring to communities in PG county outside the Beltway (I-495) like Bowie and Upper Marlboro.

 

[rareboy]

But isn't that the irony?

While Prince George's has been successful in becoming an enclave for affluent African-Americans, what does it say when people of one race only wish to live among other people who look just like they do?

Is it okay to only criticize all-white (or mostly all-white) neighborhoods for not being inclusive to others, when people of another race or ethnicity voluntarily segregate themselves into their own neighborhoods?

The crux of the original post, isn't it?

But if you are trying to equate the blackification of the neighbourhood as the whites move out and sell to blacks with the past overtly racist policies in many white enclaves to not sell to blacks, Asians or at one time even Jews, then that fish don't hunt.

It isn't about wanting to live in a community of people who 'look' like you do. It may have more to do with common aspirations, religious affiliations, friendships or even social aspirations and business interactions.

There is nothing wrong with people of similar faith or race wishing to live near one another to create a community. It is only structurally wrong when it is actually a policy of a community to exclude others.

And no one can prevent one group of people leaving an area when it no longer offers them the sense of community and inclusion that it may once have.

To give a very benign example, when I was growing up, there were lots of families with kids on our street.
As the older people whose kids had grown up moved away or just died, every house was sold to a family that had kids. Older people just didn't buy houses in our neighbourhood. Years later, after we had all grown up and left, our street was very quiet with 90% older people on it again. All the houses sold to childless couples or more mature and established families. Sometimes the dynamic of change in a community isn't only because of skin colour or race. Sometimes it is the result of economics and other demographic conditions.

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

wot article sayin

washin tons a not multi ethnic all color ya like assorted in nice hollowood image?

or lot anothda thangs or

they got fill space up on papa or all out a job?

anyway

was amazin

thankyou

 

[MisterMajestic]

I think you are confusing "American Indians" and "Indian Americans". They are very different.

Which group do you fall under?

 

[JayQueer]

Which group do you fall under?

I said above. I'm Indian-American, as my parents immigrated here from India.

Gov. Nikki Haley is Indian-American too.


For more info --

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_American

 

[JayQueer]

I found another article about this trend, but this was mentioned on the BET website (Black Entertainment Television) --

"Even a Wealthy D.C. Suburb Is Getting More Segregated"

http://www.bet.com/news/national/20...hy-d-c-suburb-is-getting-more-segregated.html

I found this statement from the article interesting --

But while Blacks are moving into Prince George to be around other upwardly mobile Blacks, whites are leaving in droves. The simple fact of the matter is, as a white man living in Bowie, Maryland, put it rather matter-of-factly to the Post reporter: “A lot of white people don’t want to live around Black people. It’s crazy, I know.”

Perhaps the most frightening aspect of this story isn’t simply that some whites are apparently terrified of living around Black people. It’s that some whites are terrified of living around Black people even when those Black people are wealthy, educated and employed. If whites fleeing Prince George’s County are unwilling to live around that county’s Blacks, some of whom are millionaires, what sorts of Blacks do they find tolerable? The answer seems to be none...

 

[TommyTrojan]

As a white person who has previously lived in predominately minority neighborhoods, it was an interesting experience to be in the ethnic minority and to occassionally feel uncomfortable or just different.

And people who are ethnic minorities: feel free to agree or disagree, but my take is that, while there may be things that "white people like," there isn't necessarily a white culture, at least one that is celebrated as such. So when minorities live in white neighborhoods, it's more of a case of them not being able to "celebrate" their culture rather than having to celebrate white culture.

For white folks, it's different. Many (most) ethnicities celebrate their culture, as they should. So when white people live in minority neighborhoods, they are not only not "celebrating" their culture (such as it is) but they are also constantly exposed to celebrations of culture that isn't their own.

Hmm, I'm not sure if that made sense. At the risk of sounding super racist, let me try it like this: if you're black living in a white neighborhood, you don't have to "be" white, you just may not be able to "celebrate" being black. But if you're white living in a black neighborhood, you not only can't "be" white, you also have to live with others "celebrating" being black, which you aren't.

Not saying it's right or wrong or that's how I necessarily feel, but putting that thought out there for discussion.

 

[palbert]

I lived in D.C. and the suburbs for number of years. When you are more familiar with your subject - and able to expain it more lucidly - open a new thread. Until then I'll give you the nickname Polly.

 

[Knucklehead]

Heh, I live in PG County so I can't help but comment on this.

The reason why whites are fleeing this county and avoiding it is this pathetically feeble-minded oversimplification I keep seeing people make, which is probably grounded in latent racism.

PG County is really a tale of two areas. Inside the beltway in PG County, you have some of the more dangerous communities in the entire country.

Outside of the beltway, however, is a substantially quieter, suburban environment with little crime.

Yet I constantly hear white people referring to PG County, including those quieter suburbs, as "dangerous" or "crime-ridden." That certainly isn't true of the town where I live, which leads me to believe that people are just seeing a bunch of black people in one area and assuming it to be dangerous.

That said, I could see why a rational person would want to move out of this county. Aside from the suburbs in central Maryland like College Park/Hyattsville, PG County is depressingly boring. It's a sprawled-out mess of poor infrastructure (the main highway by me is a fucking shitshow), dull chain restaurants/stores that close early, and no excitement/entertainment of which to speak. That's why I'm moving to a different area soon that's right by Montgomery County.

But what's ironic to me is that most of the dumb honky asses who move out of this area aren't moving for those reasons. They move to even more boring, more inaccessible, more dead and dull, far-away suburbs (if you could even call them that) in Anne Arundel and Calvert Counties. So I'll just sit here and laugh at their pathetic existence of going to the grocery store at 7 o'clock and going home for the rest of the night and doing nothing after their two-hour commutes.

Dumb

Honky

Asses...


Nice...I guess racial slurs are fine as long as they are directed towards white people..

 

[SonOfSlobone]

What's depressing about this is how little seems to have changed since I was a kid. In those days, there were no black families in upper-middle class neighborhoods -- they couldn't afford it.

But if an African-American family ever managed to move into an all-white blue-collar neighborhood, the next day there would be a For Sale sign on every white family's lawn. (That's in the North -- in the South it would be a burning cross on the black family's lawn.)

If you asked any of these people why they were in such a hurry to sell, they'd probably say "I have nothing against black people myself. But I have to protect the value of my home. The longer I wait to sell, the less I'll be able to get for it." Of course this was just thinly disguised bigotry.