Radical new abortion law in New York...

[frankfrank]

^ You'd better buy Hunt's...OR ELSE. lol

 

[gsdx]

^ I don't believe I've ever seen Hunt's up here.

 

[rareboy]

^ Actually, we only buy President's Choice.It is made with Canadian tomatoes.

 

[gsdx]

^ So is French's. Not only are the tomatoes Canadian (mostly from Ontario), so are all the other ingredients. It's made here in Canada by Canadians, and it's bottled here as well.

I have to ride a bus to buy PC. I can get French's around the corner.

 

[rareboy]

^ That is funny, because we don't usually see the French's.....but my partner doesn't like the idea of French's being an American company.....we just can't win.

I am going to write Loblaw and ask them where they bottle theirs though.

Until the US lifts steel and aluminum tariffs at least.

 

[Mariatenebre]

Well I certainly don't think that abortions should happen at 9 months as by then the baby is fully developed unless it is to save the mother's life. Abortions should be done before this, before sentience, intelligence and personhood has developed.

 

[mikey3000]

And the best part is, if the baby should survive a botched abortion attempt and is delivered alive, the practioner now has the right to kill it right after birth. This is no longer a criminal offence but a medical procedure.

 

[opinterph]

""

Health is a very broad term.

[LFLOAT]

[/LFLOAT]Gotta link for that quote?

Although LifeNews reported that the Reproductive Healthcare Act “redefines a ‘person’ as ‘a human being who has been born and is alive,'” and describes abortion as a “fundamental right,” that change applies to language in the penal code, as the new legislation now regulates abortion as part of public health law instead of criminal law in New York.

Did New York Pass a Bill Legalizing Abortions Up to Birth? (Snopes; January 22, 2019)

 

[mikey3000]

New York passed it, and Kathy Tran, rep from Virginia, is trying for the same...

Right up until the last moments of pregnancy can practioners decide if a women's health, physical OR MENTAL is at stake.

 

[KaraBulut]

And the best part is, if the baby should survive a botched abortion attempt and is delivered alive, the practioner now has the right to kill it right after birth. This is no longer a criminal offence but a medical procedure.

Which shows a general lack of understanding of the procedure. The pregnancy is terminated before a late term abortion, although in quite a few of these procedures, the fetus was not viable (which is why the procedure was done). Keep in mind that these are about 1% of induced abortions and they are far fewer than the spontaneous abortions (i.e stillbirths) that Mother Nature is responsible for.

 

[luckynumbah7]

New York passed it, and Kathy Tran, rep from Virginia, is trying for the same...


Right up until the last moments of pregnancy can practioners decide if a women's health, physical OR MENTAL is at stake.

Yeah, we already know you don't care about mental health issues - we also know a lot of other people don't as well, which is why you're continuing to conflate labortion with 'mere' mental health. As if it can be brushed aside at your leisure. That's undoubtably because you are brushing it aside at your leisure.

So, a hint; people do not wait if waiting is at all avoidable. This will undoubtably come as a startlement but I'd be willing to lay some hard money down that everyone who has a uterus, whether it works or not, has already pondered what their preferred child status is, because it's a much more immediate concern (it relating to bodily autonomy and all) than the simple sperm donation you ponder. This does not change when mental health is involved.

Personally I'm not real concerned that (as an example of the recently listed-in-links, pretty sure) an 11 yr old didn't realize said rape meant she conceived and now it may take a bit of time for mental health to be worked through (and never mind the unlikeliness of actually having the ability to carry to term at that age).

Mental health isn't something you get to trot out like the boogeyman as if pregnancy has no toll in and of itself, mental and physical.

 

[rareboy]

^ You and everyone else is just wasting their typing on Mikey.

The outraged right wingers....who likely would be singing different hymns if a catastrophic late term pregnancy termination was needed by their own wife or daughter...(or who knows; maybe not), are simply using this as a cudgel.

They have neither experience or sufficient knowledge to present reasoned arguments or to see this as an incredibly nuanced and complex area of medical ethics and healthcare.

Save your pearls.

 

[luckynumbah7]

^ You and everyone else is just wasting their typing on Mikey.

The outraged right wingers....who likely would be singing different hymns if a catastrophic late term pregnancy termination was needed by their own wife or daughter...(or who knows; maybe not), are simply using this as a cudgel.

They have neither experience or sufficient knowledge to present reasoned arguments or to see this as an incredibly nuanced and complex area of medical ethics and healthcare.

Save your pearls.

Ah, but I'm not typing for Mikey. He's just the latest mutterer of Egregious Shit.

I'm typing for everybody else - and also for myself.

Think of it as more for the ...straddling-the-fencers, the not-quite lurkers who fall dubiously silent when things deemed to be of a (personally) black and white nature are 'discussed' that don't (again, personally) concern their own physical self. Which happens ...all the gods be damned time, quite bluntly. And such people almost always backpedal, going "It's more complicated, certainly! ....but we're not going to acknowledge that in law, because we care not how complicated the matter actually is; we want our illusion of control and we don't care how we get it." Whether that belief of control is God's* prerogative or someone swinging their dick around doesn't matter to me because it's the same reasoning/argument either way.

I mean, I certainly haven't seen a mention otherwise about mental health also being a primary concern, someone's gotta mention it.

*Refers to the belief that God gives you nothing you cannot handle; which I vehemently disagree with as a concept; just look at how many broken people there are, after all. It also (much more often than not, or Mikey wouldn't be relying on it) seems to be a firm foundation of the 'Fuck mental health as a concept' argument when paired with religion.

 

[KaraBulut]

...The outraged right wingers....who likely would be singing different hymns if a catastrophic late term pregnancy termination was needed by their own wife or daughter...

Or if they knew someone who had been through this because of anencephalic fetus (a fetus whose brain did not develop). The ultrasounds often don't pick this up until the second trimester. In some cases, when the ultrasound is inconclusive, they may have to do another more detailed ultrasound around the 6th month of pregnancy which puts things into the third trimester.

In the case of the person that I know who went through this, they found out on their ultrasound in the 5th month. They had to find a practitioner who does surgical abortions (non-surgical abortion is not an option and Catholic hospitals won't do the procedure). Their state required them to go to the clinic and listen to the fetal heartbeat in another ultrasound and then wait 48 hours, return again, listen to the heartbeat again and then they were able to have the abortion.

Their State does not allow third trimester abortions, so if it would not have been discovered in the 5 month, their options would have been to go to another State or carry the fetus for another 4 months with the knowledge that it would die immediately after being born.

 

[rareboy]

^ Too many outraged right wingers still think that late term abortion is a hobby....some kind of delayed morning after remedy. But the law change is designed to deal with exactly the kind of situations you describe. And too many men who think they should control a woman's uterus dismiss the terrible toll that carrying a non-viable fetus to full term can have on the physical and mental health of a woman.

Perhaps what is most repugnant is the arrogance of the crusaders to presume to know what is best for all women and to assume that a woman and her health provider aren't capable of making a sound and clinically responsible decision in her interest.

 

[KaraBulut]

...Perhaps what is most repugnant is the arrogance of the crusaders to presume to know what is best for all women and to assume that a woman and her health provider aren't capable of making a sound and clinically responsible decision in her interest.

The dirty little secret in the US is that we have been electing some really bad state representatives and the legislatures in many states don't look anything like the population when it comes to gender, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc.

A lot of the crazy legislation that is getting passed in the state legislatures is coming out of thinktanks and legal action groups that are funded by the same ultra-wealthy donors. That's why you'll see the same bills coming up in multiple states at the same time (an example from 2017-2018: a lot of states passed bills requiring state contracts specify that vendors must support the State of Israel- Adelson and his hundreds of millions probably paid for those bills). These bills always seem to be passed with the votes of white guys who belong to one party who are receiving donations from some special interest group.

Abortion is another area where bills are written by special interest groups and then passed by state legislators who receive donations from those same groups. Why we think that state legislatures understand circumstances like anencephaly (most can't even spell anencephaly) or incest or any of the complicated reasons that lead families to made a decision to abort a fetus is beyond me. Once upon a time, these things were private and were made in consultation with family members, clergy and physicians without the government interjecting itself into the situation.

Once these measures are passed, it can take years to get them repealed. One can look at sodomy statutes and miscegenation laws that are still on the books to see that legislatures shouldn't be making laws about sex and reproduction and when they do, it's a mess to clean up.

In the case of these "radical" new laws, it's not really new laws. It's trying to clean up the previous laws that were passed in attempts to make abortion difficult to obtain. The effect of these laws, too often, was that it just delayed the abortion to later in term which increases the number of second and third trimester abortions.

 

[luckynumbah7]

^Actually, I tend to believe a lot of guys think abortion is a hobby in their heart-o-hearts due to the way a lot of guys tend to come at/frame the conversation. I also think the lack of dealing with their own 'results' heavily influences that view - when the worst outcome you can get without a uterus is an sti (that most (occasionally erroneously) assume can be simply cured via a script for antibiotics & no 'time stamp' need be involved) then there's ...just not quite the level of critical thought involved that the topic requires. Mapping it onto the 'closest experience of the 'other sex'' just ...does not work.

I suspect a lot of cis guys think pregnancy is a stroll through the park too. Not so much some of the women because you can listen to them being two-faced about the whole affair if you pay really close attention - the 'they're immoral! (Except when I need one) viewpoint. Hell, at the moment a close relative even springs to mind.

 

[luckynumbah7]

Too many outraged right wingers still think that late term abortion is a hobby....some kind of delayed morning after remedy.

And there's an issue right there. Plan B ain't no hobby either and abortion itself is often still being portrayed that way. I can only assume it's because guys are encouraged to be incautious and cavalier about their own reproductive bits - which certainly isn't the same "You must be the responsible one regarding all sexual matters' message women get stuck with. That someone can read the list of side effects of plan B (and when it's considered less effective) and still pretend the med is a hobby is asinine.

 

[azanallover]

And the best part is, if the baby should survive a botched abortion attempt and is delivered alive, the practioner now has the right to kill it right after birth. This is no longer a criminal offence but a medical procedure.

I have pretty much given up on talking politics with gays, they are just too stupid and brainwashed.

 

[johaninsc]

I have pretty much given up on talking politics with gays, they are just too stupid and brainwashed.

they..?

have you looked at your profile pic lately?



that doesn't look like mayo in your mouth