Rahm Emanuel on Obama/Clinton Race

[iman]

Rahm Emanuel is a good friend of both Obama and Clinton. He has remained neutral in the campaign and discusses the primary and it's aftermath on Charlie Rose.

 

[noah617]

A fair and reasonable analysis. I hope he's right.

We sometimes get so caught up in defending our chosen candidate that we take our eyes off the ultimate goal: victory in November. It becomes like rooting for a sports team. We get more worked up and personal about all this crap than the candidates (or players) ever do. Hopefully the candidates will lead us by example and display graciousness and class in victory or in defeat.

 

[iman]

The losing candidate will do themselves a lot of good and engender goodwill from the party for working hard for the winner. I am sure that will happen.

 

[smelter]

^ I've been saying this from the very beginning of this infighting, we must keep our eye on the prize ...... a win in November!

 

[Kulindahr]

He takes all the fun out of it -- without all the hysteria and hand-wringing, the primaries would be boring!

At the same time, I think that the more Hillary looks like a Republican, the worse hole she's digging.

 

[iman]

^Republicans have valid interests and concerns that must be addressed by a winning candidate. I don't see Clinton as a Republican in any sense, but security is something that is important to Americans.

 

[naked gent]

^^ Concerning his Social Security plan Mrs. Clinton (inaccurately) accused him of favoring a "trillion dollar tax increase".

That sounds like a republican to me.

The fact that she was not offering any plan of her own closes the deal.

 

[NickCole]

^^ Concerning his Social Security plan Mrs. Clinton (inaccurately) accused him of favoring a "trillion dollar tax increase".

That sounds like a republican to me.

Obama has said he'd lift the cap on the amount of earnings subject to social security tax. He has refused to say, however, how he'd do that without raising taxes on the middle class or where he would apply a new cap. So it's reasonable, with such a vague "plan" to point out that lifting the cap would result in a trillion dollar tax increase. If he didn't place a new cap on it, it WOULD be a trillion dollar tax increase. If his plan WOULD place a new cap, why not simply say what that would be? The answer is because doing so would clarify that his plan increases taxes on the middle class, which he has promised not to do.

When called out on this, in the last debate, Obama got defensive, attacked Hillary and never explained the huge gaps in his "plan."

The fact that she was not offering any plan of her own closes the deal.

She has said that, like Reagan, she would appoint a bi-partisan commission to collect information and review the extent of the problem, and come up with a range of solutions and recommendations. That's a legitimate and smart plan.

 

[Centexfarmer]

Well, in an attempt to put things into perspective, Iowa was over three months ago, and within the next couple of months we should have a clear Democratic Party candidate.

November is more than six months away, and anything can happen.

What matters, and what I believe that Rahm Emanual is saying, is that a lot of what can happen will depend a lot of how the "loser" of this contest deals with it.

 

[naked gent]

She has said that, like Reagan, she would appoint a bi-partisan commission to collect information and review the extent of the problem, and come up with a range of solutions and recommendations. That's a legitimate and smart plan.

If you consider passing it off to some unnamed commission a plan you really do grade on the curve for your girl.

In any case her plan is the same as Reagan's plan (read republican plan) so she does sound like a republican don't she?

 

[NickCole]

If you consider passing it off to some unnamed commission a plan you really do grade on the curve for your girl.

If Hillary approached every problem with the response that she'd set up a commission to handle it, I'd condemn it as a cop out. But in fact Hillary has presented comprehensive plans, and defended them in detail, which Obama can't do, for Iraq and foreign policy, the economy (in addition to a plan specifically addressing the mortgage crisis), health care, energy, etc, etc. I agree with her that a bi-partisan commission is the best way to come up with agreement on what exactly the problem is and the best solutions to address it. Especially because any plan will need solid bi-partisan support to get through Congress.

In any case her plan is the same as Reagan's plan (read republican plan) so she does sound like a republican don't she?

You actually wrote that with a straight face?

Obama's plan is the same as Reagan's plan. Reagan used a commission to come up with it, but what he did was raise the cap.

 

[naked gent]

^^ They did more than raise the cap they also taxed SS benefits for the first time and increased the retirement age so Obama's plan is not the same as Reagan's plan.

Did you write that with a Clintonian face?

Nick my original point was accurate or not phrases like 'trillion dollar tax increase' sound republican to me. I'd remind you that to get to that trillion dollar figure you have to go many yrs out which means whatever her plan eventually is it also will be a trillion dollar tax increase.

And btw I agree that a commission is the only way to go.

 

[NickCole]

^^ They did more than raise the cap they also taxed SS benefits for the first time and increased the retirement age so Obama's plan is not the same as Reagan's plan.

Did you write that with a Clintonian face?

No I wrote it with a big Nick smirk because it's true that Obama's plan is what Reagan did, including Obama promising not to raise taxes on the middle class and to this day Republicans pretend Reagan didn't raise taxes. It's just more of the same old deception.

Nick my original point was accurate or not phrases like 'trillion dollar tax increase' sound republican to me.

Why does it sound Republican, simply because it warns of a tax increase? If that sounds Republican then it's high time it started sounding Democratic as well. Tax increases on the working and middle class, are IMO to be avoided if at all possible. Raising the cap, increasing taxes on workers making $97,500 to $200,000 is a bad idea in today's economy. A really bad idea. In cities like New York and Chicago, and increasingly in outlying areas, a family living on $100,000 is middle class.

I'd remind you that to get to that trillion dollar figure you have to go many yrs out which means whatever her plan eventually is it also will be a trillion dollar tax increase.

Not necessarily.

And btw I agree that a commission is the only way to go.

Well you have a funny way of showing support for Senator Clinton's plan!

 

[naked gent]

Why does it sound Republican, simply because it warns of a tax increase?

It sounds republican to me because they are the ones I usually hear making such claims.

Tax increases on the working and middle class, are IMO to be avoided if at all possible. Raising the cap, increasing taxes on workers making $97,500 to $200,000 is a bad idea in today's economy. A really bad idea. In cities like New York and Chicago, and increasingly in outlying areas, a family living on $100,000 is middle class.

Yours and Mrs. Clinton's concern for the middle class is duly noted although how you can be against taking their money for retirement but for forcing them to purchase health insurance, which although she refuses to give us the details you can be sure will cost them much much more, only speaks to the depth of your concern for that middle class.

 

[NickCole]

Yours and Mrs. Clinton's concern for the middle class is duly noted although how you can be against taking their money for retirement

I'm not against taking their money for retirement.

I'm against taking more of their money for retirement.

The middle class pays a lot into Social Security already and I haven't suggested they stop.

but for forcing them to purchase health insurance, which although she refuses to give us the details you can be sure will cost them much much more, only speaks to the depth of your concern for that middle class.

What figures lead you to believe health insurance under Clinton's plan will cost "much much more" than a middle class worker pays into social security??

 

[naked gent]

What figures lead you to believe health insurance under Clinton's plan will cost much much more than a middle class worker pays into social security??

Please try and not twist my words Nick. The health insurance mandate will cost much much more than any increase in SS taxes which was the subject we were discussing above.

Remember Obama was for increasing SS taxes and Mrs. Clinton, displaying her concern for the middle class, was not?

(at least until a commission tells her to do so)

 

[NickCole]

Please try and not twist my words Nick.

I'm sorry; I misunderstood what you were saying.

The health insurance mandate will cost much much more than any increase in SS taxes which was the subject we were discussing above.

Sounds a little like apples and oranges. But if you're going to equate the two, to be fair wouldn't it be increased cost of social security to the cost of health insurance beyond what the middle class is already paying?

And again I ask, what figures are you using to come up with that conclusion?

 

[naked gent]

^^First off the the those who are uninsured in the middle class are currently paying nothing unless they get sick so any cost beyond zero is the cost I'm using.

As for the figures I'm using I'm using the Massachusetts example which is the only one we have and in that example you can pay as much as 10% of your gross income for health insurance. Even if we cut that in half to 5% its still more than the increase in SS taxes in 1984.

Not to mention that after you purchase your mandated health insurance you'll be responsible for the average 10% increase in premiums each yr which is not the case with the increase in SS taxes unless your income is near the max.

 

[Shafted]

The losing candidate will do themselves a lot of good and engender goodwill from the party for working hard for the winner. I am sure that will happen.

Well, I know Obama would; not sure about Hillary, though. Her pride is stronger than her reason and Clintons HATE to lose.

 

[Kulindahr]

^Republicans have valid interests and concerns that must be addressed by a winning candidate. I don't see Clinton as a Republican in any sense, but security is something that is important to Americans.

It's not her interests and concerns -- it's her vicious, low attack methods.