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Reclaiming language- thoughts?

dodo2761

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What are your thoughts about gay people calling themselves fags- queers etc?

Black people calling themselves niggers.....(hate that word)

I was a member of a group recently where someone thought it was ok for them to call themselves bent, even though other people were offended by this.
That person continues to call themselves this knowing that others find it offensive- is it ok for gay people to call themselves bent but if a straight person called the same person bent would that then become offensive.....?

Can of worms I think](*,)
 
I think pejorative words are always offensive - regardless of who utters them or their reasons for uttering them.

This is because words have a history and connotation associated with them, and for those affected by this history, the connotation will always remain.

I've been callled a nigger by black and white people - in each case it was offensive, but I would even go as far as saying it was more offensive when said by another black person. Likewise, I hate it in Black porn when the guys go: "Fuck me, nigga!".

The same goes for words such as puff, fag and the various other gay insults.
 
i use fag and faggot all the time, along with bitch. in a playful, friendly way, to refere to myself or to friends.

context is everything. "correct" words like gay or homosexual can be deeply offensive if used with malicious intentions.

yeah, there is room for misunderstanding, which is why i only use such words with good friends, and in places where it doesnt really matter (like here, bitches!) and if straight people use the word faggot, they better know exactly what they are doing... which is why i wouldnt even go near the word nigger.
 
my definition for faggot is ignorant straight guy.
 
I think pejorative words are always offensive - regardless of who utters them or their reasons for uttering them.

This is because words have a history and connotation associated with them, and for those affected by this history, the connotation will always remain.

I've been callled a nigger by black and white people - in each case it was offensive, but I would even go as far as saying it was more offensive when said by another black person. Likewise, I hate it in Black porn when the guys go: "Fuck me, nigga!".

The same goes for words such as puff, fag and the various other gay insults.


Thanks for this- I think we feel the same
 
They can call themselves that if they want, it's their right.

But if they called ME a fag, even if they were gay, that's gone too far by then.

What if you are in a position of some authority and say a younger person who was abused by someone using the same word you choose to call yourself happened.
i.e. you decide that you are a 'bender' or 'bent', and it just so happens that the other person has just reported some homophobic abuse because someone called them 'bent' or they grew up being abused by a parent who kept using the word in a deregatory way to describe them- so it was a form of abuse.
How can it be ok for you to use it to describe yourself, when somone else finds its use derogatry to other gay people?
 
In the UK 'fags' =

achat-benson-hedges-lights-cigarettes-85.jpg




Whilst 'faggots' =

mr-brains-faggots.jpg


I wont post what "Bristols" are then ;)
 
It's a nice thought, but I don't think re-claiming words really works that way. As much as we throw out "nigga", the moment a white person calls a black person "nigger", black people get angry/offended. Words are only as powerful as the intent behind them. And as long as there are racist white people who seek to convey their malicious intent by calling someone "nigger", then the word is gonna remain powerful. There's not a whole lot black people can do about it. I suspect the exact same pattern will play out with "fag" or whatever else.
 
I think pejorative words are always offensive - regardless of who utters them or their reasons for uttering them.

This is because words have a history and connotation associated with them, and for those affected by this history, the connotation will always remain.

I've been callled a nigger by black and white people - in each case it was offensive, but I would even go as far as saying it was more offensive when said by another black person. Likewise, I hate it in Black porn when the guys go: "Fuck me, nigga!".

The same goes for words such as puff, fag and the various other gay insults.

Thank you for that ... well said!

i have always hated self referencing pejorative words .. hate it .... hate it...

and i am not a queen ... i am not a girl ... and i am NOT a fag ... please don't refer to me as such if you wish to win my attention ...

and we can't expect to receive respect from the world-at-large if we can't treat ourselves and each other with greater respect ... from what we call each other to our behavior in the street ....
 
I had this discussion with a class before, because I don't believe in the whole "reclaim the word" theory. Afterward, one of my students came up to me and said while she understood my stance, she as a black woman didn't think it was bad when she called her white husband "nigga." She said he knows she loves him, and she didn't see anything wrong with it.

I said, "You're a very religious woman, aren't you?"

"Yes," she replied.

"Well, if Jesus came down here today and walked into this room, would you say, 'What up, my nigga?"

She was flabbergasted. "No, of course not!"

"Why not," I asked.

"Because that would be disrespe. . ." Then she stopped. "Okay, you got me."

God, I love light bulb moments.
 
Uh. Wow. I'm kind of surprised at the amount of people against this kind of thing so far.

You realize that "gay" was first a claiming of a word, right? Previously the "gay rights" organizations, if they could even be called that, were calling themselves 'homophiles' and demanding not rights or gay liberation, but, well, pity. This was before the widepsread use of gay or homosexual.

I know a LOT of people who identify as queer, myself included. Some of them identify as queer and not gay. I identify as queer AND gay.

I don't see what's so offensive about bent if it isn't being used in a pejorative context. In terms of definition, it's the opposite of straight.

Words are always being taken and taken back.
 
I know a LOT of people who identify as queer, myself included. Some of them identify as queer and not gay. I identify as queer AND gay.

Me too. To me queer implies a more radical stance. Gay politics can often seem to be about assimilation into straight society. I want equality. I don't want to be assimilated.
 
Richard Simmons screaming "Fag" at me does not have the same implications as a redneck with a knife.
 
Actually, the tone and the intention when speaking it out play a very great part in determining the meaning.

But yes, offensive words are offensive, even when the person saying doesn't mean it.
 
X-cess is right, quoting Roland Barthes in Death of the Author when he wrote that there is "no outside of the text." Today it is well and truly accepted in academic and political domains to use the word 'queer' to speak to theories, ideas, politics, issues etc that come from and address people who do not fit into heterosexist/heterocentric (itself an irony) arenas. To use 'GLBT' is inadequate, and dare I say, somewhat unpronouncable, a bit like Prince calling himself by that silly symbol..., as there are those who deny that they are included in that label but whom the discussion ought/seems to address and include, and to use a word such as pansexual is inappropriate since not all people who fall outside of the label heterosexual or heterocentric are positioned merely by their sexual preferences or only by sexual politics. 'Queer' is also a word that reduces the power of those who would denegrate us simply by its assumption by the non-hetero communities.

The fact that people feel offended by even us using these words seems to have something to do with a sense of reduction: If we believe/feel that a term has been used that reduces our meaning to only include that of a sexual nature (a nature that is pointedly not accepted by the larger and dominant straight community), then we are insulted because that is what we struggle against as we search for validity and expanded meaning in the broader community that we do in fact contribute to meaningfully and generously but are often denied access to or respect in. If the words are not applied as nouns, but as adjectives and the sentence doesn't declare us to only exist in a sexual nature, then we generally find the language less or even unoffensive. There is a world of difference between being gay, and being a gay; being queer and being a queer. One allows for other experiences and space for a broad and inclusive social meaning, the second allows space only to exist as a sexually (and historically, definitively in the broad heterosexual community, abhorrent) entity.

As discussed extensively by many literary theorists and social commentators, and perhaps none more persuasively than Lee Edelman in his book, Homographesis, using the (also relatively modern) words of 'homosexual' and 'heterosexual' to speak to the various ideas we are concerned with is dreadfully fraught, too! The fact is that relatively few people will be very happy about the discussion of any ideas/persons/politics etc that include this group of ideas and words for a very long time.;)

But! - unless we all want to reduce our conversations to include only the most basic of language that is so bland it can only offend by implying the listener/reader has no capacity to comprehend or participate in a more 'fruity' or impassioned exchange, we ought to seriously consider that expanding our repetoire of words can actually reduce over-generalisation or the risk of improperly inferring, as well as lead to broader minds - our own included. No language is neatly wrapped to only mean one thing, and really, who wants for there to never be a risk of taking offence? "Beauty needs ugliness," said Crazy Jane to the Bishop when he challenged her right to walk the High Street.
 
I always find this entire topic of conversation so damned amusing. When people get offended by a word I just have to laugh quietly to myself. A word only has as much offensive power as YOU give it. It doesn't matter how much intent was behind it, or what context it was used in. If you want to be offended by it you will be, if you don't, guess what, you won't.

I use words like faggot, fag, homo, cunt, twunt, twat, bitch, woman, slut, whore, hoe, nigga, and many other terms in my normal every day language. Oh as well as the word goddamm. When people get offended I just give them a blank stare and walk off. I don't have time for such petty bullshit, I am an adult, with a rather large vocabulary, and frankly don't give a damn what someone else thinks of my usage of any word. They are just words to me, a means to an end, the end being my conveyance of a concept or idea.

When people grow up and realize the only person or thing that can offend you is yourself then maybe shit like this will finally become irrelevant. Remember kids, "only you can choose how you feel", "he who angers you controls you", and "there is no offense where none is taken". Have a great day.
 
Isn't it defence mechanism? You call me a name that has negative connotations and instead of rejecting that name I take that name on and use it with a positive connotation and make you look like the fool.

That old rhyme your mother used to tell you that sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me is probably one of the best pieces of advice you're ever likely to get. The moment you let someone have that power over you, that power to bring you down mentally with words then that is the moment you lose. Why would anyone object to someone taking back that power someone *thinks* they have over them?
 
A word only has as much offensive power as YOU give it. It doesn't matter how much intent was behind it, or what context it was used in. If you want to be offended by it you will be, if you don't, guess what, you won't.

that is complete nonsense. i agree with the way you handle some situation - just ignore it, because its not worth your time - but that doesnt make whats said less offensive. if a complete stranger on the street hatefully calls me faggot, it is offensive, wether i let it get to me or not. even if i didnt notice him at all, because i had on some headphones or something, what he said still is offensive.
 
as for reclaiming slurs, let me explain how i see it. words like "faggot", used offensively, bascically say: "you are gay, and thats wrong." referring to yourself as "faggot" says: "yeah, im gay, so fucking what." i think its empowering. maybe a little juvenile, like mohawks or tatoos, but hey, im still young, i can afford to be a little juvenile :)
 
as for reclaiming slurs, let me explain how i see it. words like "faggot", used offensively, bascically say: "you are gay, and thats wrong." referring to yourself as "faggot" says: "yeah, im gay, so fucking what." i think its empowering. maybe a little juvenile, like mohawks or tatoos, but hey, im still young, i can afford to be a little juvenile :)

Right on.

Right on to asadoyayunta too.

Carlb85 - I think that's pretty fucked up. You're ignoring context completely and also who has claimed what word. That's just pretty ignorant and you're also giving the green light for everyone else to say whatever they want, be as insensitive as they want, because it's "just words." But the way we use language is political. My biggest example of this is that you said you use the word "nigga" - sorry, but if you're white, I think that's really fucked up. If a straight person used the word faggot casually, or whatever, I think that'd be pretty fucked up too.
 
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