Religion And The American Presidential Election

[Kulindahr]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

I'm Christian, and, hell, if I was giving the candidates a maximum of 100 points (to determine the worst to the best), I'd give a candidate 25 or 30 BONUS POINTS for being athiest!

Even though some people will argue that athiesm itself is a religion (because it IS a belief system having to do with our existence or origins), I'd certainly rather have a President shoving that "religion" at us, than shoving the Pat Robertson style of religion at us, which seems to be prevailing nowadays.

Part of the reason the Pastor Wright stuff came up at all, was because Obama was forced to wear his Christian religion on his sleeve, otherwise the vile Spinmeisters would have continued to convince the American public that he is a Muslim - one of the few prejudices in this country which are as intense or perhaps more intense than racial ones. (Of course GAY is another one.)

I'd give no points for being atheist; I might even knock some off -- atheists are too out of tune with the general population.
As a Christian, I would give points for a deist (which a large portion of the Founding Fathers were) or for an agnostic. I've learned it's best to knock off 20 points for anyone claiming the mantle of "Evangelical", and another 10 for every well-known "Evangelical" preacher that endorses him (and I mean him, because "evangelicals" are about as likely to endorse a female candidate as Obama would be to pick Jeff Schoepp (http://www.nsm88.org/index2.html) as a running mate).

That's a good thought about Obama being pushed into wearing his Christianity on his sleeve.

 

[sabot3ur]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

religion is such a fucking trip... I'd give a candidate super extra bonus points for not having imaginary friends, but aren't they all religious to a certain degree?

but you can't base everything off religion, it always depends on the person.

 

[Croynan]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

Still waiting for an intelligent and up-to-date response croynan...

try reading the original posting again and see if you can get it right for a change.

what is happening with that tape of the minister is nothing new. one would expect it in American politics and probably more so this time as Mr. Obama is the first major African American candidate for the office of the presidency.

try working on that and see if you can understand any of the above.

have a good weekend.

eM.

 

[spooger]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

What the fuck is up w/ your pointless name calling? Either stick to arguing the merits of the situation, or shut up. You aren't furthering the discussion otherwise.

For me, I am religious (Catholic), and I am very happy to be a member of my church, and to attend Mass and to read the Bible. If you don't get enjoyment out of those things, or believe that Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior, then that's perfectly fine. Luckily in my country, it's completely up to each individual to believe or not believe. I feel the same way about a Presidential candidate. They can believe or not believe in GOD. I don't feel that they should have to hide their religious beliefs anymore than I think a non-believer should have to hide theirs. At the end of the day, all that matters to me, is that they do a great job as our nation's leader.

i agree with what Alpha1851 said, and i am Christian as well, but....

your statement about a believer not having to hide his belief reminded me how sad that Christians (Catholics in our case) must hide their sexual beliefs.....were it not so!

as greaves has said, relegion should not have a place in politics; although, as others have stated as well....a candidate's religiosity (or lack thereof) contributes to who he is and is inseparable from the psyche...

what one prays (hopes) for is a REAL leader with decent morals and standards who will deal reputably and determinedly with his country's challenges....regardless of relegiosity.....

but since i live in THIS world, i'll have to decide my vote in this world as well.....

but if the OP's thesis is just that relegion shouldn't play a part in politics anywhere....

i agree....but get real!

 

[G-Lexington]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

Any thoughts? Yes - you're just as boring as those potheads down the street who can only talk about legalization.

Lex

 

[greaves]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

Yeah and in England the fucking queen is defender of the faith and head of the church.

Go figure.

Straighten your home before you trash on mine.

The Queen is not an elected politician. Seeking to be elected President, and the role religion plays in that, is what this thread is about.

 

[rareboy]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

Any thoughts? Yes - you're just as boring as those potheads down the street who can only talk about legalization.

Lex

It is strange isn't it, that greaves only ever posts about religion and his loathing of it in all forms. Even to the point of worrying about it in the elections in a country he doesn't live in. It is almost as though he has no thoughts on anything other than religion at all....

The scary thing is that I am in total agreement with the original post. And so was Jefferson and the founding fathers.
What the Hell happened along the way? Was it just because of Kennedy being Catholic that so much focus was placed on the faith credentials of any candidate?

 

[Spensed]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

Yeah and in England the fucking queen is defender of the faith and head of the church.

Go figure.

Straighten your home before you trash on mine.

Plus, unlike the States, England doesn't have, and sees no need to implement, a constitutional separation between Church and State. So there's nothing to straighten there.

On the other hand, the US Constitution, in its implementation at least, separates Church and State. And, unless the Constitution is changed, it makes no consitutional sense to erode that separation.

Given that, it's a fair comment that far too many religious folk keep trying to cross the line.

 

[eddielee]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

I have no problem with Presidential Candidates who follow a certain religion. I only have a problem if they abuse that religion to get votes. A lot of Candidates will play the "religious angle" and court Christian voters. The problems is the Candidates are often full of crap.

Whether anyone likes it or not, religion is an important fiber of American culture and it always will be. It's always going to play a role in Presidential elections.

 

[wascallywabbit]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

My 2¢, as a completely areligious person:

There's nothing wrong with politicians being people of faith, and there's nothing wrong with them talking openly about their beliefs. Religion only becomes a problem when it's exploited to serve political ends. That's something we should resist - but we should do it in a way that doesn't demonize all faith or attempt to erase every trace of religion from the public square.

 

[wascallywabbit]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

I would love an atheist President. That way I know his or her 'religious beliefs' wouldn't get in the way of his/her common sense. I've had enough religion shoved down my throat over the past 8 years.

I'd just as soon not have an atheist president. In my experience, atheists can be just as fervently dogmatic as Baptists. If I had to choose, I'd go with the Baptists - at least they can sing.

I think people make the mistake of thinking that atheism is somehow the opposite of religion. It's not. In an odd way, atheism is a product of religion, in the sense that it's a reaction to it. In reality, the opposite of religion isn't atheism, but complete indifference. I'm so areligious that I'm not even an atheist - I'm a don't-give-a-shit-ist. The whole idea of going to the trouble of denying the existence of god and proclaiming yourself an atheist seems kind of pointless to me - as pointless as it would be to make a point of denying the power of juju and declaring yourself an ajujuist.

 

[wascallywabbit]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

I doubt you'll see an atheist in office very soon. I think Americans religious organisations haven't progressed much from the Founding Fathers - a bunch of dissatisfied puritanical protestants.

Many of the founding fathers were deists, and they were wary of organized religion - hence the separation of church and state.

 

[greaves]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

It is strange isn't it, that greaves only ever posts about religion and his loathing of it in all forms. Even to the point of worrying about it in the elections in a country he doesn't live in. It is almost as though he has no thoughts on anything other than religion at all....

The scary thing is that I am in total agreement with the original post. And so was Jefferson and the founding fathers.
What the Hell happened along the way? Was it just because of Kennedy being Catholic that so much focus was placed on the faith credentials of any candidate?

rareboy

(A) If you access greaves' profile you can see the last 250 threads posted. Most of them are not about religion.

(B) Everyone, where-ever in the world they live, should take an interest in American Presdiential elections. The result will impact on all of us, whether we like it or not.

 

[rareboy]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

^ Whatever.

The important point is that the people who envisioned the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution would probably weep to see how the political charlatans scrambling for power since the 1960's just can't seem to get there without somehow demonstrating that they are card carrying subscribers of the Revelations of St. John fanzine.

...and never underestimate the power of the American religious right in helping to ensure that their guy will be in the Oval office to help bring on Armageddon and help them rapture their way to the high heavens.

 

[KaraBulut]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

I doubt you'll see an atheist in office very soon. I think Americans religious organisations haven't progressed much from the Founding Fathers - a bunch of dissatisfied puritanical protestants. .

Many of the founding fathers were deists, and they were wary of organized religion - hence the separation of church and state.

If I remember correctly, Madison, Jefferson and Franklin were the Episcopalian Deists.

Most of the Founding Fathers were Episcopalian, Presbyterian or Congregationalist (Episcopalians and Presbyterians are not Protestant). Quite a few were devout Christians.

They were wise enough to realize that if 13 colonies with different religious histories were to form a union, the federal government should not support one religion over the other. There was also some bitterness over England's attempt to force the colonies to make the Church of England the state religion for the British colonials.

The concept of Church and State came from the writings of Madison and Jefferson after the Constitution and Bill of Rights were enacted and ratified. The first amendment's establishment clause is often confused with the concept of separation of Church and State. It doesn't actually contain that phrase.

 

[greaves]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

And don't forget this band of brothers:

http://www.calodges.org/no406/FAMASONS.HTM

Music provided by a Freemason.

Don't think you're being manipulated?

Look at the symbols on your dollar notes.

 

[RobinGoodfellow]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

I hate when people only go halfway...The phrase (separation of Church and State) itself comes from Jefferson and Madison, and is generally used because the actual amendment is rather difficult to remember...

Still a cool idea!

RG

 

[frankfrank]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

...and never underestimate the power of the American religious right in helping to ensure that their guy will be in the Oval office to help bring on Armageddon and help them rapture their way to the high heavens.

If there IS going to be such a thing as The Rapture, a lot of these guys are going to be collectively saying "Oh, shit!" when they suddenly notice they're still in their physical bodies after most of the people suddenly disappeared...

 

[greaves]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

More from the book of Jeremiah:

 

[SUP3R B0i]

Re: Religion And The American Presidential Electio

Religon should play noooo part in the election plan and simple