Religion is ONLY words, NOTHING else

[Andreus]

Prefab religions like christianity, islam,.... have NOTHING to do with spirituality whatsoever. They NEVER had and NEVER will. They are the plain negation of spirituality. Religion and spirituality can not come from the outside, from a book or from something like that. Religion and spirituality can only come from the inside of individuals. As long as it comes from the outside, there is NO religion or spirituality.

thanks for such an..ummm

positive?

opinion

i'm sure we will all consider it

could it be that people can all find their own spirituality in any way that they feel comfortable? could it be that there are some times when you need more than the self centered process of doing only what comes to mind? could it be that there are times when you are confused and need to draw on some input from ohter like minded people?

and if they don't write things down, then how exactly is that going to happen?

If you amass wisdom in your life and we as human beings dont want to lose it, what is wrong with passing it on and recording it for the ages.

I REALLY dislike the CHURCH OF ME and it seems that there are way too many people in the world today that are unknowing members of the place.

just a thought

 

[turtle]

It is utterly and totally immoral to give a meaning to words which are totally empty by nature like faith, believe, believer, sin, god, salvation, etc... Not only are those words totally empty, they also are mere inventions of manipulators.

I take that as an insult.

You should learn more before you say such nasty things.

You cannot function at all without belief, religious or not.

If you have no faith at all, that would mean having no faith in your friends or family. The word certainly does have meaning, whether in a religious context or not.

If such things do not exist, neither does morality, so how can anything be immoral by your lights?

And you should learn to say what you have to say without throwing around insults.

-D

 

[bulge]

To me the very word "god" is an insult.

 

[Marvels]

To me the very word "god" is an insult.

Insecure, much?

Now words, like say, salvation - - if salvation does not exist, yet it still urges man to do their best to love and help their neighbors, as well as themselves, then does it not, in fact gain meaning?

If a word like sin - - though it may not exist, teach man to refrain from mindlessly killing, will not the word gain a meaning?

If I call you an idiot, will not half the people posting here agree with me?

Faith, as Turtle said (hey dude, weren't you the one who called me out about my dermatologist?), is intrinsic. It does not belong to religion. Neither does the concept of love, sin, salvation, hope, fealty, and limited warranty. It belongs to humanity.

Besides, if we've been "manipulated" into believing that there is a God. Wouldn't it hold true that something also "manipulated" you into becoming a puerile mess?

 

[turtle]

To me the very word "god" is an insult.

A word, like "god" or any other word, can be an insult only when it is used against a person, as when you call believers "immoral" and "manipulators".

I am no manipulator, sir, nor can your moral fiber match up to mine, which has been tested and tried in uncommon ways.

What is your actual problem? What drives your unreasoning, emotion-driven antipathy to religion? It sounds like the spiteful reaction of someone who has been hurt.

Well, you weren't hurt by me, but you insult me nonetheless.

-D

 

[conrad]

Maybe, just maybe, we might not be so sure of ourselves if we were to stop to remember that at times we do speak "just words", that is words that have no source in genuine thought. Some folks seem to place high value on what is usually called "speaking in tongues" but, in my own experience, I have never been moved by such outbursts. The apostle, Paul, apparently had the same reaction way back when he was on his missionary travels.

On the other hand, I find Paul's words on the subject of the Gospel of (that is the good news of) Jesus Christ which, by Paul"s own testimony, had changed him from a frustrated seeker who had hid his own "deep down doubts" in a zealous campaign of persecution aimed at those who had found a more hopeful, person-affirming, community-creating, faith which for them was based on what they had come to believe God had made possible by the life, ministry, death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth, whom they declared to be present to them in their own life situations. The words we have are of the changed man, Paul.

Now, when one speaks out of such a background of remembrance of things past and the recognition of one's own changed outlook, what issues forth is not "just words" but words of striving to tell others (and oneself too) the wondrous thing that has come to being in one's life. We Christians have a hymn which is a prayer for the means to express the joy we share with Paul and the great cloud of witnesses who lived in that faith since Paul's time: "O FOR A THOUSAND TONGUES TO SING MY GREAT REDEEMER'S PRAISE".

So, if you do think it's "just words" by all means start asking for interpretation. We Christians remind ourselves, occasionally, how important it is to speak plainly and truthfully. I'm delighted when I have opportunity to give expression to my faith; and, I remind myself to keep open to the testimony of others and not to be surprised when I learn something new. God is Still Speaking! The person I meet today or tomorrow may be the means for my hearing the Word of the Lord for me today or tomorrow.

Keep open for surprise! PEACE!

 

[bulge]

A word, like "god" or any other word, can be an insult only when it is used against a person, as when you call believers "immoral" and "manipulators".

I am no manipulator, sir, nor can your moral fiber match up to mine, which has been tested and tried in uncommon ways.

What is your actual problem? What drives your unreasoning, emotion-driven antipathy to religion? It sounds like the spiteful reaction of someone who has been hurt.

Well, you weren't hurt by me, but you insult me nonetheless.

-D

I have no intention at all to insult you. In practice the word "god" is often (mostly) used as an insult. It is done when it is used to proof something ("God said...", "that is not god's plan...", etc) but that is not what the insult is about. Usually it is assumed god also created THIS universe. Then the insult is flagrant. You insult men as you tell them they have been put in an universe like THIS by god and you insult god as you accuse him of having created this world. If god should exist, he cann't have any to do with this universe.

 

[closet case]

Religion is ONLY a bunch of words, NOTHING else. Only EMPTY words without any meaning. Those words create other words called theology, doctrine or otherwise. The words god, allah, yaveh, believe, faith, believer, unbeliever,... are totally EMPTY.

Okay, big deal. Everything is words with no definition until humans give them definition. I think it would be more precise to say there is a wide disagreement on the definition of certain words commonly used in religions, if that's what you were trying to say.

 

[Andreus]

words have power

history is replete with events that prove that reality

indeed they are all that separate us from the animals

they are what made civilization posible

the words of religions and faith have shaped human history for as long as it has been recorded

to try to say otherwise is just silly and reflects an unatural and unhealthy negative obsession with a resentment against an idea that has brought millions upon millions of human beings comfort through the ages

 

[Snade]

"'Just' words"? The "sticks and stones" ditty many of us learned as children is crap. Words maim and kill just as effectively as sticks and stones. Religion isn't mere words. Rather, it is a set of rules for belief and conduct that has led to more human misery and death since the dawn of human history than all the natural calamities combined. Every man and woman takes from "holy" writings whatever comfort he finds in the words that comprise them... and whatever condemnation he finds in the very different rules others may live by.

 

[conrad]

Why dwell on the harm done in the name of religion? We can all stipulate that the record is not pleasant. But can we not also stipulate that many of the great strides in human progress have been undertaken under the banner of religion.

When you observe the way in which religion is manipulated by politicians who are eager only to harvest votes, those of us who seek a more wholesome, a truer form of religion, have to make a choice; we can aim at the perversions of religion and hope that those who do the perverting are shamed and shown up for what they are, or, we can take the positive route of reminding others and ourselves of those who demonstrate in our time the way in which religion has been and can be today a force for positive good. Truth can be respected by those who profess no religion as by those who adhere to one or another of the many religions. Those who seek reconciliation, forgiveness, justice, and peace will often find themselves outnumbered by forces that pursue ways that divide peoples, that harbor grudges, that seek special advantage rather than simple fairness, accept war and conflict as inevitable.

We have plenty of persons and movements in our history which deserve our respectful remembrance and study. Some of them show people at their best; some, alas, show that we Americans have had our share of purveyors of evil in words and deeds. Compare the words and deeds of Martin Luther King in the push for civil rights to the words and deeds of the KKK in its support of segregation and discrimination--both claimed the support of Christian religion. Or, if you want to look at leadership at the highest level you might do well to look up Lincoln's religion in words and deeds in the Civil War and Bush's religion in words and deeds in the War in Iraq.

Words do have power. We ought to use them freely in speaking truth. And that goes for those who claim religion and those who make no such claim.

 

[thewiz]

Hmmmm....words and power. If I walk into a crowded theater and scream out "FIRE!"....will that word create or cause something to occur? I would hypothesize that utter chaos would result with people screaming and instinctively reacting to my word.

I think people are confusing "words" and "religion" with "faith." There is a significant difference. All too often religions become "do nots" meaning you can't do this, you can't do this. They fail to recognize the underlying purpose of the creation of religion in the first place....that of satisfying the spiritual cravings of mankind. I recognize and accept that some deny or say that they have no spiritual craving and no need for a "God" or "god." For many others, including myself, I recognize that I have a need to satisfy not only my spiritual need but a recognition that meditating on words allows me to create a picture upon which I can commune with a higher power that I have come to recognize. Call it crazy; call it insane; I call it true peace. For me, it is an opportunity to still my inner being, meditate that I am not the center but rather just a part that helps the center.

I think of the "words" of St. Francis of Assisi...."go, spread the good news (gospel)...use words if you have to!" Unfortunately religion all too often tries to use words for what Jesus the Christ specified as an action. Words tend to be nouns and connotate inaction; that was not the message that was preached. For that matter, the first covenant (old testament) envisioned actions just as sincerely.

So words can have power; they can help paint word pictures that allow us to associate or consummate a relationship; however we should attempt to use our actions (or lack thereof) to communicate the true message. Religions are but a framework of dogma that allow or guide this.

 

[KentuckyPython]

Oh my, I wonder how many islamic fundamentalist are blowing themselves up in front of the JUB office right now...

Probably about as many as there are fundamentalists who'd like to blow us all to Hell.

 

[Andreus]

truly and intentionally offensive

how disapointing

 

[Marvels]

Bulge: Do you really want this to become a philosophical debate? Because the whole "God cannot create evil thus He cannot possibly create the world" deal has been done and done so much, it's like cracking a Clinton joke at Comedy Central.

 

[cwtiffin]

I find such an emptiness in some of these posts. An emptiness that cries out for "words" to have meaning, to give some measure of respect, some level of
peace, some morsel of wisdom, some touch of love. To be able to meet us on the level in which we find ourselves. If you think it cannot be found in words, your form of communication in getting your point across makes you out to be a liar.

It is good to question, it is a healthy attitude to wonder why & to inquire. Lay upon your bed & commune with your own heart ~ just don't close your mind to the reasoning that you might not have it right.

Man is born for trouble & the sparks fly upward. Keep stirring the pot ~ something of value (namely, the truth) will eventually come to the surface. I have found that when I search sincerely, it always comes to pass. Naturally, there has been much hurt along the way, as well as much truth discovered, but that is life.

 

[bulge]

Bulge: Do you really want this to become a philosophical debate? Because the whole "God cannot create evil thus He cannot possibly create the world" deal has been done and done so much, it's like cracking a Clinton joke at Comedy Central.

Religion has been done and redone so much it is like cracking a Clinton joke at Comedy Central, except religion is lethal.

 

[Marvels]

So is politics.

Now riddle me this little boy, if you believe those words are so empty, then why do you consider them lethal?

Oh, and do you really expect us to take you half-seriously when all you do is snipe randomly whilst avoiding any real points of rebuttal? Because no offense, but grade schoolers seem to have more skill it interpolation than you do.

 

[Brijan]

So is politics.

Now riddle me this little boy, if you believe those words are so empty, then why do you consider them lethal?

Oh, and do you really expect us to take you half-seriously when all you do is snipe randomly whilst avoiding any real points of rebuttal? Because no offense, but grade schoolers seem to have more skill it interpolation than you do.

Marvels: One
Bulge: Nuth'en

 

[Kulindahr]

Prefab religions like christianity, islam,.... have NOTHING to do with spirituality whatsoever. They NEVER had and NEVER will. They are the plain negation of spirituality. Religion and spirituality can not come from the outside, from a book or from something like that. Religion and spirituality can only come from the inside of individuals. As long as it comes from the outside, there is NO religion or spirituality.

Sort of like as long as food comes from the outside, it has no energy or nutrition....