Religion is ONLY words, NOTHING else

[turtle]

I find absolutely no reason in life, in nature, why there should be such a thing as "a god" In practice, real life, if you grew up in christianity, you "believe" in it. The same if you grew up in any other religion, you "believe" in that religion. It is my concidered opininion that religion is simply a means of controling the minds of people, for there is absolutely no evidence of a so-called almighty god.No praying for peace stops a war; no praying for rain makes it rain;The mere fact that that are so many 'gods" could be proof enough that no one is tops.Nothing in nature is ass licking to a god, yet for time imemorial life has just continued. If there is an almighty god, then he has made every thing as proclaimed and then he has made you what you are. So blame the B....d if you want to blame, or accept your niche in life.
BrettKyle

Well now, BrettKyle, you are half right. There certainly is no God of the kind you describe.

There is a psycho-emotional complex within you that requires you to hold some kind of basic beliefs about life. We cannot make a decision without knowing why we are making it. We accept the idea that right and wrong exist, and need some idea of why something might be wrong or be right in order to make moral decisions and to function socially and emotionally.

So, if not religion, some sort of "ideology" or "world-view" is required for our mental, social and emotional function. When life was more simple, only a simple understanding was needed. As life and the moral questions we must each decide become more complicated, a more complete world view is required.

Science does not address moral questions adequately at this time. I am one who believes that religion and science need not conflict at all. I believe that the Universe is a coherent living being of which I am a part. I believe sentience like our own is encouraged to develop within the Universe to provide amelioration of the conflicts and harms that inevitably accompany freedom.

We should not ignore our religiosity just because it is a human phenomenon. We should try to understand it and direct it into healthy paths. Ignoring it is a huge mistake, it is too integral to our psyches. Our consciences will enshrine our truest beliefs whether we like it or not. For healthy function, our consciences must not only be clean, they must be well-furnished.

I do not agree with accepting your niche in life. If you don't like it, change it. God has nothing to do with it. Don't blame God for what people do and have done. But neither should you ignore the very real spiritual aspect of life just because previous generations have misunderstood it.

-D

 

[Kulindahr]

I find absolutely no reason in life, in nature, why there should be such a thing as "a god" In practice, real life, if you grew up in christianity, you "believe" in it. The same if you grew up in any other religion, you "believe" in that religion. It is my concidered opininion that religion is simply a means of controling the minds of people, for there is absolutely no evidence of a so-called almighty god.No praying for peace stops a war; no praying for rain makes it rain;The mere fact that that are so many 'gods" could be proof enough that no one is tops.Nothing in nature is ass licking to a god, yet for time imemorial life has just continued. If there is an almighty god, then he has made every thing as proclaimed and then he has made you what you are. So blame the B....d if you want to blame, or accept your niche in life.
BrettKyle

One of the first pastors I remember in my life suggested that most prayers aren't answered (except "no") because they were silly prayers. I know that many, if not most, of my prayers have been silly -- and all I got was, well, nothing.
But I have witnessed several occasions where things happened that could not be explained without something supernatural. In two of those, appeal to the name of Christ was involved, without a request for anything specific, and what I can only call miracles occurred.
Your opinion of what religion is, is not borne out by the facts if you study early Christianity, back before the institutional phase sort of calcified things. Nor is your opinion of who is a Christian correct; my sister attends a church where well over 2/3 of the people did not grow up Christian; rather, they found convincing evidence, and changed course.

 

[Marvels]

Brett: For one, I'm glad you stated that what you posted was your own opinion, and not an all-encompassing truth that most non-believers (sorry to generalize, is there any other way to say it?) run through here with. On a related note, there's also no evidence that there is no God, aside from certain everyday incidents that most people would consider miraculous, like say, stigmata and a dancing sun.

Now nature, nature, nature...well, nature does not think, does it? Animals don't think, they follow schematics that are based on instinct. Their cognitive functions process only the simplest of data, all of which are based by previously applied reinforcement. You won't see a rabbit running right into a hyena as a statement on Darwinian counter-hegemony. Rocks aren't sentient, and trees may be alive, but they aren't exactly planning a War on Terror as we speak.

Only we have transcended the binds of forced schemas that nature imposed on everything else - - which is why we must look onto something else that could shed light on how we are where we currently are. To some, evolution is the answer to this conundrum. To others, like myself and most probably a lot of people here, the answer is God.

As for praying, well Kuli got it right. You don't pray for something that you yourself can accomplish. Going the extreme is also silly, since praying for something virtually unattainable would be just a waste of time. So don't pray for World Peace. Pray for a chance to do something to make it happen.

 

[turtle]

Here is my daily prayer, from a Universalist, rather than a Dualist perspective, or, you might say, from an expanded Pantheist perspective rather than that of a traditional Theist.

My Dear God
I will be you hands today
I will be your heart today

-D

Why are we asking God for help, when we are designed to be that help.

 

[Kulindahr]

Brett: For one, I'm glad you stated that what you posted was your own opinion, and not an all-encompassing truth that most non-believers (sorry to generalize, is there any other way to say it?) run through here with. On a related note, there's also no evidence that there is no God, aside from certain everyday incidents that most people would consider miraculous, like say, stigmata and a dancing sun.

As for praying, well Kuli got it right. You don't pray for something that you yourself can accomplish. Going the extreme is also silly, since praying for something virtually unattainable would be just a waste of time. So don't pray for World Peace. Pray for a chance to do something to make it happen.

There was something bugging me in the back of my mind when I wrote that about prayer. I couldn't pin it down, but reading this made it coalesce.
God granted us all a certain amount of free will -- that is to say, we are free to choose within the constraints of the world around us; obviously my free will does not extend to teleporting to Jamaica for a picnic and then to Tibet to see the Dalai Lama, in the same afternoon! He has integrity; He will not tread on our free will (which is the reason for a LOT of the suffering in the world, BTW). So with regard to world peace, such a prayer is a fel-good exercise, because a positive answer on that from God would require treading on a LOT of people's free will -- He just won't do it. So that's a limitation on prayer, and a reason a lot of prayers go seemingly unanswered. I know; it's possible to point to exceptions in the Bible, but consider that what's in the Bible is the story of the working out of His great Plan for rescuing His Creation that got screwed up; there, He crosses that line and tweaks things a bit. But He isn't likely to tweak things for your high school basketball game.

As for miracles: there's miracles, and then there's magic. John, in his Gospel, refers to miracles as "signs", and there's a lesson in that: they're not just feats of power for the sake of looking good or whatever, but they point to something beyond themselves. Specifically, since they're outbreaks of divine power, they point to God: who He is and what He's like.

Just thought I'd throw that in.

 

[turtle]

It is not just free will for thinking beings.

All life in the Universe has the freedom to change, and is, in fact, designed to change.

That freedom inevitably carries risk.

We developed our sentience so that there would be an awareness of, and possibly some protection against, the harms and conflicts that necessarily arise.

We see, because the Universe wants to see.

We think, because the Universe wants to understand.

We feel, because the Universe cares.

We are barely out of our infancy as a species. I do hope that we grow up and learn to take our proper place in that scheme before we destroy ourselves and much of our current world.

We are not here to seek God's salvation, we are here to provide it.

-D

 

[Marvels]

I think this thread has officially been hijacked.

Turtle: Now, now, as much as I find myself concuring with your point of view, I feel inclined to say that your last post was tinted with quite the messianic complex.

Kali: To simplify - - I prayed for Jesse Bradford to walk up to my room and ask me out to a date, but God didn't answer. I prayed for a Xbox 360, and my dad bought me one the next day. So yeah, hurray for limitations.

 

[Kulindahr]

I think this thread has officially been hijacked.

Turtle: Now, now, as much as I find myself concuring with your point of view, I feel inclined to say that your last post was tinted with quite the messianic complex.

Kali: To simplify - - I prayed for Jesse Bradford to walk up to my room and ask me out to a date, but God didn't answer. I prayed for a Xbox 360, and my dad bought me one the next day. So yeah, hurray for limitations.

Heh. I broaden my prayers, like, "God, send a cute guy my way who will like me!" My rationalization is that I'm not asking Him to change anyone, just to find one that fits the bill and nudge him my way.

 

[french]

how can in a period of 4,000 years a book [torah] and be compiled all accurate none of the writings contradicting each other all over hundreds of years, and then jesus come and fufill 300 of these predictions! i fail to understand how that could be made up. it can't!

 

[Kulindahr]

That's one of the reasons I'm A Christian, french. Every now and then I think, "It would be so much nicer to just ditch it", but then the weight of evidence waves at me, and I sigh....

 

[french]

yes me too because personally i would love to be buddhist but the evidence, the strong evidence for christianity is just great and it's not just the history, but there's other things too.. like 42% of ppl who convert to christianity have dreams of jesus christ and jesus tells them to find the path or something. it's amazing! there was a whole city in the phillipines that got visions like that and they all became chrsitian!

i will admit that the history of the bible is sort of bumpy but not too bad especially since lots of red sea scrolls have recently been found. islam is very convencing but like hinduism and mormonism, i find it to be made up. imho tho. because it just doesn't have the rich and great history as christianity and altho islam answers a lot of questions from christiantiy if i had the time i could pick up a bible and answer questions and make my own religious book and look at science and easily come up with a book. give me 10 years lol.

 

[french]

also i might add that the Buddha could very well be a prophet in Christianity. people often ask how on earth.. well, look at the old testament, or torah for reference. it clearly states that there have been hundreds of thousands of prophets. so it makes you wonder maybe the Buddha was a prophet!! he did come before jesus and such.

 

[Kulindahr]

I keep meaning to look at Bhuddism. When I was at college, a Roman Catholic Deacon I moderately respected said he was Bhuddist-Lutheran-RomanCatholic, finding them amazingly compatible. I'm somewhat dubious, but given some of the Bhuddist things I do know, I think it's worth looking into.

 

[french]

oh yeah it's a beautiful religion. it really gives you peace. hinduism is nice too. in fact ppl who profess the hindu faith are the happiest in the world

 

[Marvels]

there was a whole city in the phillipines that got visions like that and they all became chrsitian!

Yeahbuwhat?

Sorry, I'm from the Philippines, but I've never heard of the phenomenon you mentioned. I must have been to busy being cruel to others.

 

[french]

how are you cruel exactly??

anyways it was a village of about 2500 ppl i will find the link.

 

[Lucas07]

I so remember my philosophy class here.
I think religion is man made. Religion is old. Religion doesn't apply to the times.
God is there. God exists. No doubt.
Faith.
Religion is nothing but a choice. And personally, I think religion makes everything complicated.

 

[Marvels]

how are you cruel exactly??

anyways it was a village of about 2500 ppl i will find the link.

Oh, I'm not so cruel. I'm not even commenting on your excellent punctuation.



Lucas: I remember my philosophy class. Our professor put his cup of coffee on the eraser holder at the bottom of the blackboard and began to write over it, letting ground chalk fall right into the brew. Then he drank. Lovely times.

 

[french]

sorry my english is poor i am not good at speaking english or at least not making complete sentences lol. but also i type really fast but if i take the time i can write just like a typical english person lol.

Like this. I fail to see where I put you were cruel, yet you say you're cruel. It doesn't make sense.

lol that took me a while to make if perfect but still oh well it's just punctuation no need to make a big deal out of it.

 

[Marvels]

sorry my english is poor i am not good at speaking english or at least not making complete sentences lol. but also i type really fast but if i take the time i can write just like a typical english person lol.

Like this. I fail to see where I put you were cruel, yet you say you're cruel. It doesn't make sense.

lol that took me a while to make if perfect but still oh well it's just punctuation no need to make a big deal out of it.

A cruel person would