Representation of Gays in the Media

[gsdx]

What movies do you feel tackle the issues of homosexuality properly?

Making Love (1982), starring Harry Hamlin, Michael Ontkean, and Kate Jackson.

At the time, it was one of the best and certainly one of the most daring movies about homosexuality and starred top-named stars of film and television. It dealt with all the issues of a married man finally coming to terms with his desires and feeling and the effect it had on his family.

And not a stereotype in sight!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084293/

 

[gsdx]

Here's a scene from Making Love

 

[G-Lexington]

Not going to answer your questions point by point, but rather toss out some generalities. Sorry.

I think the media does a decent job. They're aware of the pressure gay rights groups will be all over them like ugly on an ape if they step out of line. Political correctness, perhaps, but whatever works.

The most important thing about to remember about the media is that it's a distillation of real life down to its simplest form. Nothing is mentioned or brought up unless it's important to the plot. In a movie like...oh, Indiana Jones, say, we don't know much about the school he teaches (taught?) at. We don't know anything about the teacher next door, or if the head of the department is a smoker, or what have you. Why not? Because it ain't important. We don't care about the department head's nic fix - get to the snakes!

Because of that, only the main characters of most TV shows and movies end up as three-dimensional characters. And, quite often, even THEY get short shrift. (One reviewer astutely pointed out that the three Charlie's Angels should be called Tits, Ass and Hair.) So there's no need to say "this guy's gay" unless that's important somehow. And if it's important enough to say, they're usually going to spend some time with it, and flesh out the character. You rarely see the "eccentric" next-door neighbor pop his head in the door just so the main character can make a fruit joke.

And that's fine. I think as time goes on, we're going to see some more progress there. As recently as, oh, twenty or thirty years ago, if a white guy had a girlfriend who was of another ethnicity, it was for a reason. If she was Asian, she'd suddenly reveal her martial arts prowess. If she was Mexican, she'd admit she was an illegal alien, or be called upon to translate something in Spanish, or something. She just couldn't BE another race. But that's changed. Now she CAN just be Asian or whatever. That can go without comment. Nobody in the audience will puzzle about it - "So why was she Asian?"

Eventually, I'd like that to be true of gay characters, too. Because if someone's gay on TV or the movies, it's because it'll be relevant. There's a gay panic moment coming, or a scene in a gay bar, or someone's gonna learn that "gays are people too". I don't have anything against these scenes, really, but you know one's on the way. It'd be nice to see the sidekick mention his boyfriend, and then have it never referred to again, in any way shape or form. Then we'll know we've made it.

Lex

 

[RobinGoodfellow]

Clarification: DO you want gay in the media NOW, or as a whole? I'm sort of asking for a clarification because there does seem to appear to be a shift from how gays have been portrayed (usually the sidekick, good for advice, and always horny) to a bit better (essentially more realistic). Even then there have always been exceptions.

Hmmm...On second thought, it feels like you want us to write your paper for you. Not trying to be a jerk, but if you don't know the answers to your own questions, you just don't the subject matter, and I have no idea how to point you in the right direction. Meaning, of course, that your paper is going to come off as shallow and you're not going to get that good of a grade.

Sorry; but when you are looking for arguments to present, it just feels weird all of a sudden...

RG

 

[Sunshine]

What characters on TV do you feel represent what being homosexual is really about? A select few from Queer As Folk and Batman & Robin.

What characters on TV are just a terrible stereotype? Jack and Will from Will & Grace ( but you have to love them.)

What movies do you feel tackle the issues of homosexuality properly? Shelter

What movies make a mockery of the issues? Another Gay Movie ....like bad.

 

[luminum]

My opinion is that basically any citation of a "bad stereotype" contains some validity to it, especially nowadays where barely anyone in mainstream media can get away with a purposefully hurtful stereotype. if a stereotype exists, it's typically in good humor, aware that it is in some way a stereotype, or meant to represent an individual who embodies the basis for those stereotypes.

I enjoy representations that depict average-Joe types, but I recognize that they are only part of what the queer community is composed of and I enjoy seeing all representations.

While some may now consider characters like those in "The Birdcage" or Jack McFarlane of "Will and Grace" deleterious to modern queer advancement, I enjoy them because I feel queer individuals who identify with those characters deserve to be represented. Likewise, characters like those in "Making Love" or "Brokeback Mountain" are important because they demonstrate that the individuals who comprise the queer community are varied, ranging from seemingly ambiguous lives all the way to socially "masculine" backgrounds.

Whether or not important issues to the queer community are "overly negative" or "unrealistically negative" is interesting. In one way, it's important to stay aware and vocal about issues like HIV/AIDS, hate crimes, discrimination, rejection, or even things like drug use. But an over-saturation or unbalanced representation can lose the idea that these are merely important issues to the gay community, not issues that ARE the gay community.

I think steadily, fictional media representation is demystifying the gay experience. While queers remain a minority in most mainstream programs, the nature of the characters has become more about their characterization and less about their sexuality.

I think a good example of this change is the character Marc St. James in "Ugly Betty." While Marc may represent a flippant, effeminate, gay boy, major storyline involvement usually features him serving as Wilhemina's loyal page boy or conspiring with his friend Amanda over silly, shallow issues. Rarely is his involvement based around his sexuality. Likewise, his later relationship with Scott St. Paul was a crisis not because of his sexuality or his "gay-related" issues with Scott's behavior or dress, but rather because of his own personal issues. Being a fashion-oriented individual, he has trouble relating and accepting his attraction to the disorganized and sloppily dressed Scott (who, as an example of diverse representation is also gay). He is not ashamed to reveal his relationship with Scott because "gays aren't supposed to go for that type" but because his coworkers are all fashion-oriented, expecting everyone's love interests to be as stylish as they.

In a way, it makes Marc's somewhat "stereotyped" behavior and appearance refreshing, as you come to understand that his motivations are not because all gays "are fashionable, foppish, and witty" but because Marc is "fashionable, foppish, and witty." The character's autonomy from standard stereotypes is further strengthened by Scott, who is his "opposite reciprocal." Likewise, their relationship is written with a dynamic that is based out of their differences in personality, rather than the stereotypes attributed to gay couples.

I think a deluge of representations of queer individuals free of the so-called "negative" issues associated with gay life, such as HIV/AIDS or oppression would be unbelievable. Both gay and straight audiences wouldn't accept it because those issues are still relevant in the here-and-now. What gay man today can live his life and never honestly feel the hand of prejudice at any time? Only one who lived in the heart of the Castro (believable) and never left and never heard news of the outside (unbelievable).

That isn't to say, however, that representations of happy, "gay issue"-free queers should not exist at all. One great example is the book "Boy Meets Boy" written by David Levithan. The novel is written with the intention of presenting a world for the protagonist where being queer is like having brown eyes. The characters are able to form relationships and interact without the specter of prejudice to consider. But even the novel understands its suspension of belief and involves a subplot where a side character comes from a home/city that is relatively conservative (yet contemporary) with its position on queer issues.

I think a final side of queer issues to show involves queer "negative" issues but avoids queer victimization. Queer individuals feel oppression and the weight of HIV, but unlike the representations of the past, they confront and challenge them, and ultimately persevere through them. Chuck may be an older "troll" with late-stage HIV in Logo's "Rick and Steve", but he and his twink partner Evan engage in safe, albeit raunchy, sex. The character Joe Bunch in Jame's Howe's "Totally Joe" encounters torment by a school bully for his unapologetic (or unfliching) homosexuality, but begins a school-wide movement that puts an end to name-calling and bullying. To me, those are the most realistic representations of what it means to be gay now. It involves both the serious issues that gays face, but also reminds us of how much we can do about them now that other gays could not in the past.

Um...end rant.

 

[tbonez]

Tell me if you feel that homosexuality, the "gay lifestyle" and gay issues (including HIV/AIDS and rights) are represented properly in television, movies and the news (are we only hearing about the negative aspects of homosexuality in the news?).

As far as mainstream commercial TV goes (with I generally loath) the gay characters are drama queens or caricatures of stereotypes. Six Feet Under and some other shows being the exceptions.

What characters on TV do you feel represent what being homosexual is really about?

Hmmm. I honestly can't think of many. The gay couple on Six Feet Under were sincere IMO. People don't want "real" they want outrageous, sensational, dramatic...They don't want people who "represent", they want people who entertain.

There are a lot of good gay role models on TV, just their sexuality is never revealed to the viewing pubic beyond a nod and a wink.

QAF the UK version. Well done, balanced and fair but it did focus on one aspect of the "gay lifestyle...Namely (mostly) shallow, sex obsessed clubbers. In other words, stereotypes The American version was pretty piss poor IMO, despite a few good storylines.

What characters on TV are just a terrible stereotype?

Queer Eye For the Straight Guy, one gay guy for each stereotype...Flamy fashion, condescending-queen foody, a mussel mary (with no muscles!)

Mad TV, Lesbionic Woman and countless other comedy sketches that just aren't funny Just trading on stereotypes for laughs.

Big Brother, Josh Welch the bitchy shallow hateful queen.

In general I find gay characters rely heavily on clichés.

I should add that I think that 99% of American/Canadian TV is pure unadulterated crap.

What movies do you feel tackle the issues of homosexuality properly?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0250478/ Nico and Dani ...Also called Krámpack (Basically translates to 'a hand job') - It's in Spanish but available with subtitles. A story of coming of age and dealing with your sexuality. (One boy is straight, the other gay.) No stereotyping AT ALL. Sincere and as heartfelt as hell,

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115640/ Beautiful Thing - English, as in the UK. Two very young English boys in the protects in London fall in love and struggle to rise above their surroundings. No sterotyping a good story well told. Funny at times but NOT a comedy.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086904/ Another Country - English UK - Cambridge. It's the story of Guy Burgess who became on of the "Cambridge spies". A mostly true story about being gay in elitist 1930's England. Guy accepts his homosexuality and his lover retreats into the closet. Moving, beautifully filmed and enlightening...Loved it

Broke Back Mountain.is as Good as they get.

What movies make a mockery of the issues?

Just about every American gay-themed movie I have ever been exposed to with the exception of Broke Back. Most trivialize, dwell on stereotypes and have an obligatory comedic sub-plot. Granted, I tend to avoid them so I have only seen a hand full.

 

[tbonez]

What I'd like to ultimately accomplish with the paper is to prove that we are only focusing on the negative stereotypes of gays because that's what a) extremists want us to see and b) everyone wants to see.

Personally, I suspect that is a whole lot more of "b" rather than "a" ... If by "everyone" you mean straight people. They want to see (it seems):

1) Gay men in crisis - "Oh the poor dears! What fragile wretched lives they live!"
A bunch of really nice straight, liberal thinking people come to the rescue of the helpless queer. They take pity on the distressed little waif and solve his problem for him. Last scene: Solitary gay man being welcomed into the loving home of the extended straight family. (That's a popular one)

2) Gay man for comic relief - Gay hairdresser or office assistant or some other menial job generally occupied by women (On TV). Helps introduce levity to a story line. He'll come skipping into the office, silk scarf tied around his neck and patent leather shoes...red...on his feet. (Notice how all gay men on TV where shiny shoes? Brand new glaring white trainers at best...one that have never seen a gym.)

Notice how gay men are either always single and depressed about it, or flitting in and out of little relationships...which ultimately END

The gay men's crisises are always about their sexuality. They were beaten because they were gay, they killed someone because they were going to be outed... It's never a crisis because they lost their job or they had a car wreck, no those story lines are reserved for straight people.

I am hoping to prove that by putting out movies like "The Birdcage" and "I Now Pronounce You Chuck and Larry" the media is simply feeding the beast. Not teaching it the difference between stereotype and fact.

I have always maintained that movies like La Cage aux folles http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080489/ (the REAL "bird cage") should only be seen by gay people. BTW I thought The Bird Cage was pure dreck, Nathan Lane aside, he was at least amusing. The guy who played the son was a total A-hole that never could have been the product of gay parents...He was the most homophobic, heartless character in the movie!

 

[tbonez]

I guess you see what you want to see Stacy. Selective seeing, just like hearing.

I found positive Gay & Lesbian role models on t.v. shows and supported them./.

You may very well be right about that. I never watched Buffy and have never even heard of Torchwood.

Stacy:

As you already alluded to it's about comfort levels IMO. As long as 'they' think we can be easily spotted by mannerisms and hairstyles then 'they' feel safe. You see a guy in the gym showers and he's sporting a bodywash puff and detoxifying hair conditioner you can 'avoid the homo' you think. The girl you hired to babysit your kids has long hair, a nice figure an wears eye shadow. Obviously she isn't gay...she even shaves her legs!

If you point out many gay bois/girls are not obvious and 'they' get nervous. I had a guy I used to work out with (for a few weeks) tell me he didn't feel comfortable with me coming in the showers when he was in there "in case I got the wrong idea". I just told him I wasn't into very small men thus he had nothing to worry about. Problem solved!

About QAF, How many straight guys do you think actually watched it? Of those straight guys how many do you think had any homophobic ideas in the first place? I can't see many 'middle America' straight couples in Iowa sitting down with a bowl of popcorn to watch Brian pump some guys butt in a public toilet. If they did I suspect all they would remember the next day was the butt sex and they'd have totally missed any "message".

 

[tbonez]

dopple ganger Yes, IE sucks.

 

[tbonez]

what about "six feet under" too? i mean the straight people were more fuckups than David and his partner.

Ditto, I did mention that.

 

[sabot3ur]

does anyone here watch mission hill?

I love the little cartoon gay couple with the navy dude, hahaha. so cute.

 

[luminum]

I love Mission Hill. It's actually credited as the first animated gay couple kiss. The representation of those two also got Mission Hill a lot of positive press from the gay community during the time.

I just read a very interesting article in the Advocate about so-called "negative" and "positive" representations of gay individuals in TV as it applies to things like Real World, that fitness show on Bravo!, and Project Runway. Basically it felt that the 90's perspective of "positive" and "negative" portrayals of queer individuals on TV is outdated and that the craziness portrayed by these people isn't mean to be reality or reflective of the queer community in general because at the end of the day, it's reality TV and ALL people are subject to being portrayed as crazy people for the ratings.

 

[luminum]

But is anyone really showing those people who don't know anything other than what they're already assuming happens anyway? That is my ultimate question. What are we teaching society about what being gay means? Because I've been around JUB for over a year and I've had gay friends outside of the JUB community that are not fuck anything that moves, drug taking, bar hopping, run into a room for comic relief and run back out gay people. But you won't ever see them on TV. Because they're just like anyone else in the world. And to show a "regular average gay" would mean admitting that they are no different than anyone else.

That may be true, but on the opposite side of the coin, is that even something ANYONE should be expecting from TV? In the end, television is about ratings and sensationalizing events. While it's easy to look at portrayals of a specific minority and question their portrayal, are the rest of the characters being portrayed as "average, normal, people"? For example, while Jack and Will may embody certain gay stereotypes, is Grace anything more than a stereotyped Jew, woman, fag hag, ubranite? Is Karen anything more than a stereotyped WASP?

Are gays actually being portrayed abnormally? Or are they being treated to the same hyped-levels of abnormality that are applied to all characters in a show in order to make TV interesting?

I mean, how many women are best friends in New York who compare their incredible, rich, affluent, sexual lives with one another?

Are we expecting too much from what is essentially an entertainment industry?

Is the fact that close-minded individuals feed off these portrayals a product of the characters or because the heterosexism and their own prejudices only allow them to selectively see what want? Can I be certain that when a so-called "normal" gay man is introduced in a show that these people will watch, learn, or care? Or will they still look for the portrayal they're already comfortable with and call the flaming queen "abnormal" and the nymphomaniac housewife "normal"?

 

[cocktales]

Stace,

YOU"RE a minority (Jewish), so you have some idea what it's like to be "different"!

Some of us are double, even triple minorities out here in real-land and find it almost impossible to swallow!

You have received some "great" ideas as you asked.......

Look at Hollywood Gays........99.44/100% of them "stay" in the closet and will deny being gay till their last breath they take....

(tells you a LOT about how they think being gay will affect their leading man/woman roles in the movies)....

However, when TV/Movies present our life-style, they usually canNOT tell it "like-it-is" or else it is just too boring, 'cause we are NO different than a hetero-couple!

YES, that's right, we live and love just like a man and a woman....that does NOT mean we have sex the same........though! lol

I totally agree with some of the JUBBERS who've listed the good aspects of TV and movies.....

Broke-Back "was" typical, because two men of that era could NOT come out or they would be killed/ostracized, etc....and they played it exactly like they would have/should have during that time....

Think about what a positive effect our life would have/take on "if" hollywood gays would say, "I'm mad as hell, and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore"! ..........and ALL announce they are gay and proud and take it or leave it!!!!

Unfortunately, the public decides by buying or paying for tickets when gay people "act" and if they are homophobic, a gay man/woman will NOT make it.........end of saga!

Good luck, I could write much, much MORE! lol

 

[tbonez]

Here is the paper.

I'll try and have it graded and back to you by the end of the week.

BTW: Feel free to fondle me to get it up....Your mark I mean.

 

[tbonez]

Why would she?

You're married.

I'm married, not dead. Looking is permitted as is light fondling through 501's ...Says so in our pre-nup.

Besides, Stacy is a woman and I'm offically gay so it's not sex... Even if we both end up with wet spots.

I am sure I could get other things up too, ya know.

I know you could!

I think that fondling those who are grading your work is well within the boundaries of "married" status. As long as it's just for a grade

Look, Sometimes a little fluffer is the most efficient route to padding an assignment. And it's a hell of a lot more impressive than a good 'litteraturliste' at the back end!

 

[tbonez]

Dinner's calling. I had better go kill it before the neighbours hear it and call the police.

Saved your paper Stacy and I'm looking forward to reading it later...Unless I have a better offer... in which case it will be tomorrow.

Thanks for posting it!

 

[Muskox]

It's a little late, since you've already written the paper, but if you're really interested in the subject, you should take a look at the series "The Wire" that has a gay main character, Omar, who is as complex as anything you'll see on television. The show was on HBO and is now over after five seasons. Get or borrow the DVD sets. It's the best thing I've seen come out of television.

 

[sabot3ur]

hell to the yeeah!

good job