Republican Fucks Up BIG TIME (Will the Librual Media care?)

[hotatlboi]

^ The most secure job on a plantation was The House Negro.

Well that's pretty irrelevant to me considering that I have a good job that pays good money. I'd rather not have to give that up to become "the house gay" at McDonalds.

Your patience isn't admirable, it simply plays into the hands of the bigots and Toms.

I disagree, forcing the issue too early will create a backlash that will allow the bigots to better consolidate their current majority against us (i.e. the 2004 election).

 

[hotatlboi]

I'm sure glad MLK didn't listen to voices like yours, I really am!

You're not getting it.

I'm not saying don't advocate for it. I'm saying if you try to get government to enforce it before the acceptance has reached a certain level, it will not work. In the case of black people, the first efforts at equality were during reconstruction, and they were a dismal failure.

MLK succeeded because he lived in a time when people (whether they initially realized it or not) were willing to accept black equality. Maybe they needed to be convinced, but the state of society was such that it was ready for that. I think we are nearing that stage for the gay rights movement, but we have to be careful not to do something that will set us back. Having the president make a unilateral effort to say that gays are now equal is not the best way to go about it. Clinton tried that and it did not work for him.

I certainly hope Obama does make an effort to repeal DOMA and DADT but he probably will need to wait until he believes he can convince Congress to do so and when there is time in the agenda for that.

 

[Kulindahr]

Indeed, a preemptive declaration that "I am Obama and from now on gays are equal" that some people seem to want is likely to produce a backlash that will result in even more opposition.

A permanent solution will need a gradual approach that brings additional popular acceptance. That's already happening at the state level and having success.

I certainly hope Obama does make an effort to repeal DOMA and DADT but he probably will need to wait until he believes he can convince Congress to do so and when there is time in the agenda for that.

To end DADT wouldn't take any great effort; a law to end it could be written in fifty words or less. If a worthy law like the one letting people with concealed carry licenses carry in National Parks can be tacked on to something else to get it passed, the same could be done with DADT -- attach it to, say, an agriculture bill, or highway appropriations.

DOMA's a different matter; tackling that means swamping everyone with constituent mail, phone calls, even telegrams, and long speeches on the floor so everyone at home can see how well their congresscritter fought for them.

 

[Lostlover]

I'm sure glad MLK didn't listen to voices like yours, I really am!

So am I.

And I totally agree with you, there will always be issues that a president has to address. So, waiting for gay rights to be addresses when the president's docket is clear is foolish.

 

[Kulindahr]

LBJ (he was the president, ya know, AFTER Kennedy and BEFORE Nixon?) Well he risked the future of the Democratic Party (and indeed precipitated its rift and the ascendance of the GOP in the South) by DOING THE RIGHT THING, even though popular sentiment wasn't behind his noble deeds.

It's called presidential leadership, leadership Obama sorely, clearly, manifestly and certainly lacks. But, hey, he's got his, right? Screw the gays -- when you got yours, that's all that matters! Or so it seems from his pathetic record on gay equality.

Of course LBJ had the example of Eisenhower to both follow and appeal to, to get Republicans on board, and his ham-handed Texas-sized fist to keep Democrats in line. Obama has... um... there's got to be someone...

Sorry; no recent Republican has come down hard for civil rights, for anyone at all. Obama's on his own.

 

[iman]

LBJ'S first Civil Rights Bill, when he was in the Senate was all but tokenism and MLK understood what was possible and only pushed for the most basic of rights.

What rights of your have been infringed upon lately? I mean, it is not as if any of you is going to sign up for the military or find some poor slob to marry you. I find all this "victim" posturing pretty distasteful. Do you want to see some REAL victims? Look at the people that have the problems that Obama is currently addressing and save the oppressed victimhood for the leather/slave parade.

 

[NickCole]

I am content to take the long MLK road and am confident that 4 or 8 years from now many of our goals will be met.

I'll let MLK respond.

We know through painful experience that freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed. Frankly I have never yet engaged in a direct action movement that was "well timed," according to the timetable of those who have not suffered unduly from the disease of segregation. For years now I have heard the word "Wait!" It rings in the ear of every Negro with a piercing familiarity. This "wait" has almost always meant "never." We must come to see with the distinguished jurist of yesterday that "justice too long delayed is justice denied." --April 16, 1963

 

[NickCole]

no President is going to solve all our problems immediately and a realistic approach will produce a better outcome in the long run.

Nobody is expecting Obama to solve all our problems, immediately or ever.

Some of us merely expect him to fulfill the promises he made, like to repeal DADT and DOMA.

 

[CoolBlue71]

Nobody is expecting Obama to solve all our problems, immediately or ever.

So it's been said and written.…

Some of us merely expect him to fulfill the promises he made, like to repeal DADT and DOMA.

… There's a whole lot of the incessant whining from unreasonable folks who, contrary to "[not] expecting Obama to solve all our problems," are doing just that. By acting as though the fulfillment of promises has come to pass, and that Obama has failed, when we're only into the sixth calendar month of his administration…it shows inpatience, as well as unreasonable expectations and outlooks from people who are unrealistic.

This is a president who has inherited one shit pile of a mess from an inept predecessor (and who had his same party in power, in both the House and Senate, that supported him in lockstep).

 

[frankfrank]

Ah, Ronnie. The only question is: was he worse than George WTF Bush?

QFT..or, rather, quoted for alternate truth...

 

[iman]

Um, you keep framing this as an individual, "what's in it for you" sort of proposition. But it's not just about me and it's not just about you, it's about every gay man and woman's right to equality.

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Yes, and we can broaden it further and say it is about all humans right to equality. The real question is about the best way to achieve equality. I think an expanded Democratic Party, an immoderate Republican Party, isolated in the South, liberal judges and liberal appointees and elected officials is the best near term path.

Clinton was damaged at the outset of his term by the gay issue and we do not need to repeat that episode. There are two many critical problems that affect everyone for Obama to spend too much political capital on issues that directly affect a small number of people. Obama has promised to address DODT and I am confident that he will - at the most opportune time which is not necessarily NOW.

Gay marriage has made remarkable progress in the past ten years with a hostile administration and a hostile congress and that progress will continue with or without White House support. Gay marriage is a new civil right that has never existed before in human history and those gay people interested may just have to suffer some inconvenience before it becomes universal.

I want Obama to keep on doing exactly what he has been doing, I think he has the priorities correct.

 

[hotatlboi]

^ "Controversy?" WHERE? I have probably never heard ANYONE talking about abortion. The only people who talk about it are too fucking old to have one anyway, and usually, their largely being male, incapable of having one (save for those strange "straight" guys who put a Kotex in their ass and say shit like, "It's My Heavy Day," and I've never met one of them, either, nor read of their existence).

Clearly you've never been around the conservative or the religious much. Coming from that background, I've probably heard more about abortion than almost any other political issue, and from women too.

 

[Kulindahr]

Why mention only civil rights regarding race? You can prove your point with a SCOTUS case: Roe v Wade. No amount of prancing by the Admiral or ol' Nick Cole can obfuscate the ongoing controversy of abortion rights, a controversy that's far older than I am.

That controversy goes back to the second century A.D.

Clearly you've never been around the conservative or the religious much. Coming from that background, I've probably heard more about abortion than almost any other political issue, and from women too.

Yeah, Alfie runs in rarefied circles. All you have to do to hear abortion debated is spend some time on a college campus.

 

[Kulindahr]

What rights of your have been infringed upon lately? I mean, it is not as if any of you is going to sign up for the military or find some poor slob to marry you.

Whether I choose to exercise them or not is irrelevant; rights are rights.