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Researcher still looking for the "gay cure"

  • Thread starter Thread starter Soilwork
  • Start date Start date
Magneto: Are you a God-fearing man, Senator? That is such a strange phrase. I've always thought of God as a teacher; a bringer of light, wisdom, and understanding. You see, I think what you really fear is me. Me and my kind. The Brotherhood of Mutants. Oh, it's not so surprising really. Mankind has always feared what it doesn't understand. Well, don't fear God, Senator, and certainly don't fear me. Not any more.

X-Men (2000)

Yoda: Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.

Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace (1999)
 
These types of things have horrendous consequences.

By trying to "wipe" things out, you are getting rid of the most important factor, the factor that has kept humanity running and strong...biological diversity. There is nothing more dangerous then trying to get rid of certain traits. You just cant put into words the dangers of doing this for humanity.
 
What do you bet that the idiot, hypocritical religionists who are so against any kind of stem cell research or any other medical procedure that "alters God's creation" will be all over themselves to support this one?

And, furthermore, if science was able to tell which children would be born gay, but there would NOT be any known way to "cure" it, those hypocrite fundamentalists would be trying to pass laws making abortions mandatory if the child would be born gay.

That trait exists for a reason. This planet is already overpopulated by humans. If one assumes that there would be 10% more procreation if every human being were hetero-, it would NOT mean a mere 10% more people in this world, but more than twice as many. Compounding (as with interest calculations, etc.) makes numbers do some strange and counter-intuitive things.
 
This issue came up like, months ago when PETA started spamming it to all the gay groups I belong to.

Look, the scientists don't believe in eugenics for sexuality. They think it's wrong, Rosselli said that it makes him uncomfortable, which means in his scientific and expert opinion, it's not the right thing to do.

I love gay campaigners to death, but I think that this is all about misunderstanding how science works. In order to prove or disprove the hypothesis that sexuality (in rams) is controlled by hormone variance int he womb, they have to perform experiments where they increase the amount of hormone and decreases the amount of prenatal hormones and see what happens.

Example: You want to know if sunlight is necessary for plant growth. You take a plant and put it in the sun and see that it grows. Then, in order to confirm that sunlight is the x-factor, you take anothe rplant and keep it in cosntant darkness. The plant may die, but it demonstrates that sunlight is necessary for plant growth. It's not done because you want to kill the plant, it's done because you need to see if that's the case, to prove that it IS sunlight that helps the plant live.

So understand that when these scientists 'alter' some rams, it's part of determinging whether or not the hormones are the X-factor in homosexuality, not because they have diabolical plans to stop gay kids from ever being born.

I'm sorry if some rams get changed into heterosexuals or homosexuals in the process, but that's what it takes to know. It doesn't 'stink of eugenics'. How can gay campaigners attack these scientists for basically trying to see if being gay is genetic or not? Because if they prove that it IS genetic, which is where the results are pointing, then they prove what gay campaigners have always been saying but never had the solid scientific proof to back up.

The only eugenic threat is from media spin. Who said that a nicotine-like patch is being developed? Did the researchers say that? Did the researchers propose that? Or did the journalist throw that in as a possibility?

Scientists say that 'theoretically' increasing prenatal hormones could change sexuality. If someone asked me if that could theoretically be done, I'd say that yes, it could too. But if you asked me if I would ever allow it to be done, I'd say hell no and I think the scientists asked for their opinions on the validity of that theorteical procedure would say the same.

You can ask if that technology would be abused in another country, and yes, that's true. It could. But all scientific fact can be used appropriately or abused. Does that mean we shouldn't ever learn anything?

Botox is made from the bacteria that cuases botulism. Less than 50 grams of that toxin could gruesomely kill the entire population of the United States. But, it can also be used to paralyze the muscles in some aging WASP's face. Because the toxin is so dangerous, does that mean we shouldn't have ever learned about it or how to cultivate it? Or how it works so it can be treated if someone gets botulism?

Scientific fact is just like power. It can be used for good and bad, but at the heart, it only exists because we seek understanding. Does performing these experiments mean that we'll know what causes homosexuality and heterosexuality and the entire scale of sexuality? Yes. Does it mean that the findings could potentially be used for the unethical idea of a 'cure' or prevention? Yes. Does it mean that that is what it WILL be used for? No. Whose responsibility is it to stop this important and enlightening and beneficial scientific research from being abused? People like us, our representatives, and scientists.

The difference between this and Nazi eugenic experimentationw as that Nazis stated that their express goal from allof this research was to one day make it so that there would only be those specific traits.

But this researching is not making that statement, in fact, he's made the complete opposite statement. He just wants to know what the x-factor is. He may have to do the same process, because the scientific process is fixed and the same for everything, but his intentions are not the same. There is no threat in his research and no maliciousness.

Isn't it strange that gay groups are basically ont he same side as anti-gay groups who don't want his research to point where it's headed? And we seem to be on their side only because we don't like the fact that some rams were born heterosexual instead of homosexual so that the result we want can finally be proven? Let's stop missing the forest for the trees.
 
You also have to consider whether or not it will be legal for it to be done. There would have to be laws created for this level of eugenics, since psychologists will say that homosexuality is not a disease and not a detriment as will most doctors and scientists. They can't say that homosexuality in and of itself is a physical detriment to the individual, only the outside statistics that are not an inherent physical/genetic consequence to the behavior in question.

So it would be an aesthetic/frivolous change and that would fall under some eugenic law, which I don't think will be allowed since it would open the door for all and any aesthetic genetic/developmental alteration.

But that's an interesting point that you're bringing up. By natural selection, 'gay genes' would have to die out because affected offspring would not likely mate and therefore would not pass on the trait. But in humans, homosexuals do mate at time and produce offspring, none of which are garunteed (so far as we know) tobe gay or be carriers.

If it is genetic, it's pribably very complex, and I'd love to study the model of inheritance for it and what other factors play into its expression.
 
whatever, good on em you know, they have found somthing in life they want to do, and they are doing it, there is no way i agree with what they are doing. but geez im not gonna say they dont have the right to do it. us saing they are bad, is the same as them saying we are. no point getting into a battle over this. as long as there are people out there with different points of views, there is going to be arguments, wars, violence. fuck it. im over violence they can have fun tampering with sheep in the end. im still going to enjoy being who i am.
 
Okay, but they're not doing anything wrong. Read the article and see for yourself. Look at what one misleading title has done.
 
Okay, but they're not doing anything wrong. Read the article and see for yourself. Look at what one misleading title has done.

How is my title misleading when they come right out and say

Potentially, the techniques could one day be adapted for human use, with doctors perhaps being able to offer parents pre-natal tests to determine the likely sexuality of offspring or a hormonal treatment to change the orientation of a child.

Michael Bailey, a neurology professor at Northwestern University near Chicago, said: “Allowing parents to select their children’s sexual orientation would further a parent’s freedom to raise the sort of children they want to raise.”

I suppose it's not a pound of cure, but it IS that ounce of prevention...
 
Alright.

I'm going to weight in:

Lumium and Soilwork bring up GREAT points. Both of them are right, in the respective areas that they are talking about.

We live in a world of intersectionality. Science does not occur in a Void nor does are the scientists immune to social factors. That said, science is a peer reviewed, carefull planned process. There are procedures in place to ensure that the research is valid. And we all know how the media spins things.

However, why is the study not also looking at if hetrosexual rams can be turned gay? I know it's orgionaly a study on herd productivity, but clearly the study has bipassed its origonal mandate. It could be expanded to explore other options. So it does seem to come from a prejuiced perspective.

Secondly, the technologly could also be very dangerous in other areas of the world as well. But the likelyhood of Iran finding, affording, and implementing a program seems very unlikely, since hanging is cheaper and more effective.

So overall, it needs to be subject to additional reviews, such as eithcal reviews and it needs to be handled very senstively by the media.

But neither option is likely happen. The problem is that the research will become public domain, meaning that anyone could continue researching it. Including defense departments, etc.

Scary.

But perhaps needed.
 
If parents can abort their children, it's not so far-fetched that they might pick and chose their features as well. Through genetics we will turn children into products, like custom built computers...
 
How is my title misleading when they come right out and say
Sorry. I mixed this up with the other thread about "the Gay cure with sheep" thread. So that was my mistake.

But as for that article, yes, it is misleading. The writer of this article states that this is a potential possibility that can arise from this research. The researcher hasn't said that. The quote from the neurologist is only commentary from someone who is a professional (and therefor can comment) but is not related to the study.

So basically, the researchers did not say that this was their goal. The writer of this article said that this "could" happen, which is far different from "Researcher still looking for gay cure".

The researcher isn't looking for a gay cure and he never was. A correct title would be taken from the article itself, "Critics fear the findings could be abused." or "Critics fear researcher's findings could be abused."

The researcher himself responded to this media explosion with his own press release stating that a cure is not his goal at all and that he doesn't believe ethically in a cure. He's trying to figure out the process of what makes us who we are. Just like scientists want to find out how white blood cells fight disease (and couldn't that research be abused to stop people from being able to fight disease?) so they'll understand it completely.

You might be concerned about that punce of prevention, but it's all in how you spin it. You're afriad of what can come from this objective science, which is legitimate. But you're also looking at it as prevention of homosexuality when the results in these findings would just mean the ability to choose sexuality--induce heterosexuality, bisexuality or homosexuality in an embryo. To me, this science provides the pathway to understanding how sexuality develops and could be used/abused to induce sexuality (any of the three) into an embryo, not just to prevent homosexuality.
 
well, let's add some "gay" to the water supply and clean up this place then.
 
Let's find a cure for ignorance first. That seems to be a MUCH bigger problem than gay people.
 
If we cured ignorance 80% of our politicians would be out of a job.
 
Well...They'd likely all end up on reality TV shows...I can picture it now .."Coming this fall, NBC's 'Washed Out' featuring George W. Bush, Tony Blair and Stephen Harper!"
 
What is wrong if someone is trying to find an origin of deviant conduct?

A flashback:
In the mid 90s I was one of guinea-pigs in one bizarre research. 20-something conscripts were taken to a hospital and two green doctors in their 20s were exploring our reactions to electric impulses including in genital area (I can not imagine the aim of experiment).
One of the doctors was obviously gay. I wouldn’t refuse to take his stand :-)

"A deviant conduct"?

You know where you're at, don't you??

If you're infering that is deviant to be gay, you've visiting the wrong place. If you're saying certain sexual expressions -- behind closed doors or not -- among homosexuals are "deviant," I suggest you spell them out. And prepare to be taken on -- because just anything can be debated. But not everything can be believed.
 
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