Rise of Fascism in the United States [SPLIT]

[rareboy]

This is horrifying and no one seems to be making much out of it although even Rand Paul seemed shocked and upset by the US doing this...pointing out that
even the worst of criminals are entitled to hearings.

This is the kind of shit that even the rogue states around the world don't tend to do much less brag about.

The US has pulled a lot of shady shit in foreign waters and countries over the years...but this is at a very different level.

 

[Kulindahr]

 

[Kulindahr]

 

[KaraBulut]

This is horrifying and no one seems to be making much out of it although even Rand Paul seemed shocked and upset by the US doing this...pointing out that even the worst of criminals are entitled to hearings.

Often when I'm taking a position on an issue, I look around and see who else is taking the same position. Normally, I wouldn't be on the same side as Rand Paul but his anti-government libertarianism does overlap with my fundamental belief that the President and the military shouldn't be the judge, jury and executioner.

The graphic shows that we had ships in the Caribbean. If they had evidence that the ship was transporting drugs and those drugs might be headed for the United States, then they could have easily seized the boat and its cargo. Once you blow up a boat, you destroy the evidence, so we'll never know who was on that boat.

 

[rareboy]

Rubio's comments on the execution are also really, really disturbing.

He basically brushed it all off, more or less saying that is isn't worth the time to interdict vessels and that they'll do it again.

 

[KaraBulut]

Rubio's comments on the execution are also really, really disturbing.

He basically brushed it all off, more or less saying that is isn't worth the time to interdict vessels and that they'll do it again.

I think someone needs to check Marco's basement for pods... or his missing huevos.

 

[Alistair]

Often when I'm taking a position on an issue, I look around and see who else is taking the same position. Normally, I wouldn't be on the same side as Rand Paul but his anti-government libertarianism does overlap with my fundamental belief that the President and the military shouldn't be the judge, jury and executioner.

The graphic shows that we had ships in the Caribbean. If they had evidence that the ship was transporting drugs and those drugs might be headed for the United States, then they could have easily seized the boat and its cargo. Once you blow up a boat, you destroy the evidence, so we'll never know who was on that boat.

I instantly questioned that, do we even have a legal standing to do it?

 

[Norri]

I'm usually the optimist but, from where I sit, Democrats are wandering around with no plan to fix anything and Republicans are no longer Republicans... at least the Republicans who believed in power being invested in Congress as a representative democracy, limited government, pro-business policies and civil liberties.

You are more optimistic than I am as I don’t see the democrats as desiring to fix anything rather I see the democratic left more likely than the republican right to be the ones to pick up Trumps cudgel and use it for their own purposes. Under the institutional theory of American politics this is the third decade of its 80yr cycles and while the first two (the Civil War and WW2) resulted in a more muscular federal government both times it was centered on security while the current times suggest that this time it be economic and that’s a better opening for the left than the right.

Social Security recipients are staring down an across the board 20% benefit cut in a few yrs and the concentration of wealth is consistently getting worse and such issues are taylor made for the generous left more so than the austere right. A politician who promises not to cut benefits when the time comes will be a winning and popular pol and if he, or she, also reduces inequality people won’t be so fussy about any details constitutional or not.

In the constitution our founding fathers created a document for men of goodwill and Trump has shown just where the seams are, and since the left has more ideas about all the good things government can do now that Trump has given them a roadmap on how to do it I expect they will.

And just think Trump is doing things that are not very popular but keeping SS intact and going after the rich will be very popular which is another way of saying SCOTUS will be obliging. (once again a switch in time will save nine)

 

[KaraBulut]

I instantly questioned that, do we even have a legal standing to do it?

I'm not as familiar with maritime law or international law (I believe the military action was in international waters) but my hunch is that a military hit on a flagged civilian vessel that was not attacking the US or US property abroad is probably illegal.

The question in the back of my mind is whether this was about drugs at all. The Trump Administration seems to be falling back to a long tradition of the US undermining anti-democratic regimes in South and Central America. The whole "drug trafficking" excuse could be a ruse to target an interest of Venezuela's Maduro regime.

Reuters seems to hint that the "self-defense" argument would normally not hold water but given that Venezuela is a pariah in the international community, not much is likely to come from it... at least legally.

Was the deadly US attack on the Venezuelan vessel legal?

The U.S. military killed 11 people aboard a vessel in the Caribbean on Tuesday.

www.reuters.com

 

[Riverrick]

The whole "drug trafficking" excuse could be a ruse to target an interest of Venezuela's Maduro regime.

I don't think they're smart enough to think that many chess moves ahead.

 

[KaraBulut]

I don't think they're smart enough to think that many chess moves ahead.

The Trump Administration is trying to frame this as the "Venezuelan government is operating a narco-trafficking ring called 'Tren De Aragua'".

It's the same claims that they used to justify rendition of immigrants to Costa Rica and possibly, Africa. Since the MS-13 is a US-based gang, they need to have a foreign connection and Tren De Aragua seems to be what they chose, without any hard evidence.

I had someone point out something about this incident that did strike me as odd: there were 11 people in a single boat. It doesn't take 11 people to transport drugs, in fact, it might be a problem to load drugs and that many people into a single boat.

It's more likely that most of the people in that boat were being smuggled to another country. If that proves to be true, the American military just murdered Venezuelans who were being trafficked. Murdering innocent people who were being trafficked would be a new low for Hegseth, Rubio and Trump and could possibly be grounds for impeachment.

 

[NotHardUp1]

Herr Fuhrer needs a Department of War, not only to shore up his tiny, frail ego, but to keep throwing out anything to distract from Epstein mania.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgr9r4qr0ppo

 

[smokeshadow]

IMO, it would take an act of Congress to officially rename the department. And, just think of all the billions it would take to rebrand signage, letterheads and other official documents, websites and other electronic media; not just in D. C., but world wide

 

[Alistair]

IMO, it would take an act of Congress to officially rename the department. And, just think of all the billions it would take to rebrand signage, letterheads and other official documents, websites and other electronic media; not just in D. C., but world wide

Whatever is in the Epstein files must be really really bad.

 

[rareboy]

IMO, it would take an act of Congress to officially rename the department. And, just think of all the billions it would take to rebrand signage, letterheads and other official documents, websites and other electronic media; not just in D. C., but world wide

I don't think he does need the permission of Congress?

Again though, it is chilling to haveTrumpCo. rebrand it to something that is 'offensive' versus defensive.

It portends aggression against nations.

And disaster for US Americans.

 

[KaraBulut]

IMO, it would take an act of Congress to officially rename the department. And, just think of all the billions it would take to rebrand signage, letterheads and other official documents, websites and other electronic media; not just in D. C., but world wide

You're correct.

DoD was a reform measure to address the coordination issues between the branches of the military after WWII. It was created by a Act of Congress and signed into law by Truman.

National Security Act of 1947 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Trump can sign an Executive Order that says that the sky isn't blue and the Epstein files are a hoax. We don't have to comply.

 

[Riverrick]

Then Hegseth would become the Secretary of War. He must have a hard-on already.

 

[Riverrick]

It's more likely that most of the people in that boat were being smuggled to another country. If that proves to be true, the American military just murdered Venezuelans who were being trafficked. Murdering innocent people who were being trafficked would be a new low for Hegseth, Rubio and Trump and could possibly be grounds for impeachment.

Someone will need to prove that. It does sound suspicious. If this is what they are doing, then it will probably get worse.

 

[rareboy]

You're correct.

DoD was a reform measure to address the coordination issues between the branches of the military after WWII. It was created by a Act of Congress and signed into law by Truman.

National Security Act of 1947 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Trump can sign an Executive Order that says that the sky isn't blue and the Epstein files are a hoax. We don't have to comply.

You don't think that Trump can't get the Congress he owns to change the name the first day they are back in session?

 

[rareboy]

Then Hegseth would become the Secretary of War. He must have a hard-on already.

Oh you want worse????

Here...hold Hegseth's beer.