Romney Takes Shot At Gays In Final Speech

[Críostóir]

Children are not the only reason to be married. And to regard allowing same-sex couples to marry as an "attack" on marriage is itself homophobic.

Romney is an asshole, and I deeply hope his life will be miserable and his death painful--and soon.

 

[Kulindahr]

I think Tonyboy's was the best post in here.

Having said that....

Romney is a sad person. He can't think of anything original so he uses the Republican Party talking points about homos trying to destroy families.

He's just showing us what the Mormon 'church' is really about: white heterosexual males lording it over everyone else.

Come on.. you contradict yourself. 2 gays guys make good parents, but 1000's of years of history and evolution tell us mum and dad are best. What makes you think that history and evolutiion are right. Jesus Christ, gayness and parenting are a modern thing. 1000's year ago, you would be killed for being
"gay".

There's no contradiction -- as someone pointed out, that statement makes you look stupid.

It's like this: I'm a handyman, and one thing I do is build stairs, generally for porches or decks.
The best risers are the ones that come from a factory, where the cuts are all laser-guided to precisely the right angles and precisely the right spacings.
If I can't get those, I'll get a set of riser patterns (or generate 'em on the 'puter) and do the cutting myself.
Now, what I make are good -- they do fine, and the only complaints I've ever had were from myself, when I slop a cut or muck up a measurement. But the best, by every measure I know, are the pre-cut ones from the factory.
Me saying mine are good doesn't contradict saying the factory ones are the best.

I suppose to make it match the gay/straight parenting situation, I should expand the illustration: I'll include all the different ways risers are prefabbed, and throw in some carpenters and handymen who also make their own. If I say "factory-made is best", all those carpenters and handymen will know I mean the ones where everything is laser-guided to perfection. They know there are factories that aren't that good, in fact most will swear that there are factories they won't buy from because they can do better themselves.
And that's the situation with parenting: "mom and pop is best" is looking at the ideal situation, when mom and pop do a stand-up job. But that isn't always the case, indeed it isn't always the case that there's a "mom and pop". So when two gays take on parenting, they have a good shot at being better than the median, better than the median of moms-and-pop parenting even.


OTOH: mom&pop isn't the only method of parenting humans have ever used -- so by seeking to enshrine it, Romney is proposing religious discrimination.

I can only hope his plane crashes into the Mormon Temple in Salt Lake City, and flames burst forth and leave the message "I Lied -- Joseph Smith" inscribed on the ground.

 

[Kulindahr]

Two lines from the Jon Stewart clip are deserving of re-mention:

Stewart on Romney:

"devoid of principle, a salt-and-pepper man-shaped polymer casing for a spiritual vacuum"





Romney trying out as a comedian:

"we could become the France of the 21st century"

 

[TygreBryte]

I had to come back today and re-iterate to tryout151: when I posted post #56, I seriously mis-read what you had written, and I'm sorry for the "you would have been humiliated for being stupid" line.

Kulindahr: Nope, I don't think Tonyboy's very near the head of the nail at all. Also, I think that tryout151 was correct when he pointed out a contradiction from JLYork.


tonyboy, I think what you're saying is quite homophobic.

Tonyboy, please go fetch up every study that compares "straight two-parent" parenting with other alternatives, and then show me the effect sizes and significance values. I am absolutely certain that not only will EVERY study fail to show that two-hetero-parent superiority, but that MOST of them will fail to show that.

What I think you WILL find is that the studies DO show that children need consistent and loving attention from at least ONE INDIVIDUAL as they develop. The "stable home" part is supported, but the "with mom and dad" part really isn't.


Back to JLYork: actually, the whole "evolution" thing has apparently favored polygamy in humans (serial or overlapping -- and in humans as well as in other animals). The establishment of two-parent families as the desired "norm" is relatively recent, and relatively limited geographically.

Check this out:

If he was indeed the patriarch, Niall of the Nine Hostages would rank among the most prolific males in history, behind Genghis Khan, ancestor of 16 million men in Asia, but ahead of Giocangga, founder of China's Manchu dynasty and forefather of some 1.6 million. This calculation, and the estimate of the I.M.H. signature's frequency in New York, were derived from a database of Y chromosome mutations.

source: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/18/science/18irish.html

Of course, we're not talking about "success" here as the development of a particular kind of person -- and that's what the two-straight-parents-are-best argument is really all about, isn't it? (Isn't it?) -- but as measured by how many descendents one leaves behind. Ghengis Khan did not become the direct ancestor of 16 MILLION Asian men (this doesn't count the women!), nor Giocannga the direct ancestor of 1.6 million, nor the person who might have been Niall of the Nine Hostages the direct ancestor of 2% of Irish males, by sticking to a "one-dad one-wife" strategy. They "succeeded" in leaving descendants by knocking up one woman, leaving someone else (or no one) behind to raise the kid to adulthood, and then going to the next possible woman and knocking her up (etc.), and then, leaving that strategy to their male descendants etc. *That's* the kind of strategy "evolution" has given us. Two-parent families represent political/economic strategies.

*grhmph* Go read some books.

 

[Dduder]

That's the biggest pile of conjecture and bullshit I've ever heard.


(The part they make he best parents)


I could go off, but honestly I won't and it's taking a shitload of containment not too.

Dude, I love your avatar. It's Arthas from Warcraft: The Frozen Throne, isn't it?

 

[smirnoff-ice]

but every study shows as well as common sense that a mom and dad are best to raise children. And it's not homophobic to say so.

it's not homophobic. it's nothing, because it's totally WRONG. i don't know where do you made up your "studies" but fact is, that there are studies which are showing that children rised by gay/lesbian couples tend to be more self-confident, therefore dealing better with daily life.

 

[glo-unit]

"The development of a child is enhanced by having a mother and father. Such a family is the ideal for the future of the child and for the strength of a nation. I wonder how it is that unelected judges, like some in my state of Massachusetts, are so unaware of this reality, so oblivious to the millennia of recorded history. It is time for the people of America to fortify marriage through constitutional amendment, so that liberal judges cannot continue to attack it!"

Just wanted to repost the quote for those who say this is not homophobic. He says they can't allow marriage to be attacks, and while he says straight couples are the best way to raise a child he also suggests it the only right way to raise a child. I know some here here hate aspects of the personality and sexuality they will defend complete assholes but come on cut the BS.

 

[BiFlexible]

A simple request, where are all these scientific studies showing parenting by a father and mother is more advantageous to the child than a gay couple?

It is up to you to prove your statement, not us to disprove it.

I know I'm just a lurker here but seriously back up your assertions with evidence or shutup.

 

[Críostóir]

tygrbryte: Preach it! Hear, hear!

BiFlexible: Right. Fucking. On.