Rumsfeld confirms: Waterboarding did not net intelligence that led to bin Laden

[BostonPirate]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/...did-not-net-intelligence-that-led-to-binLaden

Dick Cheney said today that “it wouldn’t be surprising” the intel came from Bush’s torture program. However, there is currently no evidence to suggest that the detainees that provided the information that led to bin Laden were subject to torture. And Bush Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, who presumably has some knowledge about what went on at Gitmo, today threw some cold water on this theory:

"The United States Department of Defense did not do waterboarding for interrogation purposes to anyone. It is true that some information that came from normal interrogation approaches at Guantanamo did lead to information that was beneficial in this instance. But it was not harsh treatment and it was not waterboarding."​

so there you have it from the horses mouth.

They did not torture to get information.

Of course it begs the next question.... well why exactly DID they do it?

 

[T-Rexx]

I would be surprised if it turns out that the torture yielded anything useful. Long experience with it by the world's intelligence agencies has not been positive.

It is far more likely that the torfure contributed to GWB's failure to capture OBL. The technique just generates a lot of false leads which tie up resources.

That's why NONE of the world's major intelligence agencies use torture. They're not being all warm and cuddly with the detainees. It just doesn't work. Not even when the prisoners are really, really bad.

Bush was a failure at many levels. And this was one of them.

 

[chrisrobin]

I would be surprised if it turns out that the torture yielded anything useful. Long experience with it by the world's intelligence agencies has not been positive.

It is far more likely that the torfure contributed to GWB's failure to capture OBL. The technique just generates a lot of false leads which tie up resources.

That's why NONE of the world's major intelligence agencies use torture. They're not being all warm and cuddly with the detainees. It just doesn't work. Not even when the prisoners are really, really bad.

Bush was a failure at many levels. And this was one of them.

What would Donald Rumsfeld know about intelligence?

 

[NineOfClubs]

A murky propaganda piece by the OP? Or just sloppiness?

Rumsfeld is, of course, telling the truth when he says no Department of Defense personnel used water boarding.

Because it was the CIA that did it, not at Gitmo, but at "undisclosed" locations.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/42880435/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/

 

[JayHawk]

Regardless I am sure that nothing I have read here indicated anyone believes water boarding was the amazing technique that yielded some result leading to the chance detection of a phone call from the surveillance terrorist operative and the courier who eventually lead to bin laden.

So it leads to the obvious question of why drudge up an old controversial beat to death topic except to dig hard for a reason to argue over a significant and historical event.

Predictable really.

 

[BostonPirate]

Regardless I am sure that nothing I have read here indicated anyone believes water boarding was the amazing technique that yielded some result leading to the chance detection of a phone call from the surveillance terrorist operative and the courier who eventually lead to bin laden.

So it leads to the obvious question of why drudge up an old controversial beat to death topic except to dig hard for a reason to argue over a significant and historical event.

Predictable really.

and I agree with you as well

God

I'm agreeing with the conservatives today

 

[JayHawk]

How does the saying go? Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Guess i hit my time.

 

[chance1]

How does the saying go? Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Guess i hit my time.

so cliche

but fun

as for waterboarding and torture ..........

i'm hearing it helped get the identity of the courier - who was used to get to OBL

which means .............. it helped

which means ........... it's valuable

not sure how sticking a head in a toilet is anymore more "torturous" than 2 bullets in the head to an unarmed man

just saying

splitting hairs IMO

as for rumsfeld - i find it ironic that pirate is using him as a source

u had no use for him to date .......... now u do?

LOL

are you a conservative mazda? i don't think so

 

[Kulindahr]

Rumsfeld is about as trustworthy as a three-dollar coin. While one might expect he'd happily point to any information gotten by waterboarding, I find it more likely to expect whatever came out of his mouth to be misdirection and obfuscation.

 

[BostonPirate]

KSM said that he did not know the courier when asked about him bu name and that rang a bell because they KNEW he had dealings with him from other data.

So after torturing him, he lied and it seemed suspicious.

That seems a pitiful excuse to justify torture.

Oh yeah

he lied and we figured it out... torture works.

I have some swamp land for sale too... anybody want to invest? Its called the GOP.

 

[JayHawk]

are you a conservative mazda? i don't think so

As I have pointed out repeatedly in the past to both liberal, left wing, Democrat, middle grounders, right wing, conservatives, neo-cons and Republicans alike here and elsewhere I am not a label and refuse to tout a line simply because it is convenient for a party.

That aside i also have said and standby the fact that our escape and evasion courses do many of the things ascribed under President Bush as torture. Ironically while President Obama put a stop to that officially as he assumed office; it is still done in our training. So i still remain convinced it is not torture. President Obama put to bed an issue that was in a large part created by the election process and the ultimate goal of tearing down Bush.

On my political beliefs; I feel in many situations I have the enviable position to see inside some issues and so therefore can make very astute judgments on a variety of policies, positions and lines of thought.

Right is right and wrong is wrong. If you simply step back and ask that simple question then the real truth behind a decision or a policy is usually easy.

I am one thing through and through.

American.

While being an American means many things. In this instance it means the correct decisions for this country are what is needed. Not partisan panty wringing.

What we need are public servants doing work for the people and not lifetime politicians who make most of their choices based upon being able to get reelected.

So short comment. Long answer

 

[Kulindahr]

That aside i also have said and standby the fact that our escape and evasion courses do many of the things ascribed under President Bush as torture. Ironically while President Obama put a stop to that officially as he assumed office; it is still done in our training. So i still remain convinced it is not torture. President Obama put to bed an issue that was in a large part created by the election process and the ultimate goal of tearing down Bush.

It's in the training BECAUSE it's torture: the idea is you should be prepared for it. It's like in lifeguard training: we got put through all sorts of things that could possibly get a guy arrested for just doing to another swimmer, which were dangerous, frightening, and painful, because they were things that drowning people or angry-violent people do to lifeguards. Having it in the training wasn't an endorsement of the barbaric behavior, it was an acknowledgment that the world contains barbarians.

 

[kallipolis]

It's in the training BECAUSE it's torture: the idea is you should be prepared for it. It's like in lifeguard training: we got put through all sorts of things that could possibly get a guy arrested for just doing to another swimmer, which were dangerous, frightening, and painful, because they were things that drowning people or angry-violent people do to lifeguards. Having it in the training wasn't an endorsement of the barbaric behavior, it was an acknowledgment that the world contains barbarians.

Accurate, and an essential part of the training of special forces in many countries.