Russia and the Republic

[Kulindahr]

The Trump White House is spinning, spinning, in a way that makes them dangerous. This, from the Senate Intelligence Committee:

"The Senate Intelligence Committee has not found any evidence of collusion between President Donald Trump and the Russian government, the White House said, adding that Americans want Congress and the media to finally focus on more important things. Not only is the president frustrated over allegations that Trump enlisted Moscow to help win the 2016 presidential election, but so are the American people, White House spokeswoman Sarah Huckabee Sanders said the day after the Senate Intelligence Committee updated reporters about its months-long investigation into Russia’s alleged interference in the US election."

So we have -- without any actual findings being released -- an assertion that nothing points to Trump colluding with the Russians. And that's going to get trumpeted by GOP fans -- even while they deny what else the Senate Intelligence Committee (SIC) had to say:

"The committee, however, said it “trusts the conclusions” of the assessment published by the leading US intelligence agencies in the last days of the Obama administration, which claimed that Russia interfered in the election to help Donald Trump"

More than that, they're continuing to look, which indicates that the message conveyed has no official standing, however much the White House wants to use this to shut down discussion.


But that's not the real problem here -- it's far more and far more serious than spinning a whiff of smoke into a bonfire. The real problem is that by using the tentative temporary report that there's no evidence of direct collusion, they want to shut down all discussion about how Russia interfered with the U.S. election. The SIC affirms that Russia interfered, and indeed we've seen even more evidence emerging about how they did, and that's a danger to the Republic. Now by wanting to shut down all discussion of Russia's interference, the Trump administration is effectively saying that they don't care, which is to say it doesn't matter to them if our elections are open and honest and the business of just Americans -- which is to say they don't care that the government is of this people and by this people and for this people, which is to say that they don't care about the foundation of the country at all in the phrase "We, the people of the United States", which is to say they don't care about the Republic... which is to say that every last one of them was lying when he/she took an oath to serve and protect the Constitution.

It's been inferred before, but now they've made it clear: Trump and company have no loyalty to the Constitution or to the Republic it established.

 

[ballcaphair]

^ Which is to say that the Constitution does not fit into a tweet or slogan. These charlatans betray the Constitution and the Republic for which it stands. Period.

 

[Benvolio]

The Trump White House is spinning, spinning, in a way that makes them dangerous. This, from the Senate Intelligence Committee:

"The Senate Intelligence Committee has not found any evidence of collusion between President Donald Trump and the Russian government, the White House said, adding that Americans want Congress and the media to finally focus on more important things. Not only is the president frustrated over allegations that Trump enlisted Moscow to help win the 2016 presidential election, but so are the American people, White House spokeswoman Sarah Huckabee Sanders said the day after the Senate Intelligence Committee updated reporters about its months-long investigation into Russia’s alleged interference in the US election."

So we have -- without any actual findings being released -- an assertion that nothing points to Trump colluding with the Russians. And that's going to get trumpeted by GOP fans -- even while they deny what else the Senate Intelligence Committee (SIC) had to say:

"The committee, however, said it “trusts the conclusions” of the assessment published by the leading US intelligence agencies in the last days of the Obama administration, which claimed that Russia interfered in the election to help Donald Trump"

More than that, they're continuing to look, which indicates that the message conveyed has no official standing, however much the White House wants to use this to shut down discussion.


But that's not the real problem here -- it's far more and far more serious than spinning a whiff of smoke into a bonfire. The real problem is that by using the tentative temporary report that there's no evidence of direct collusion, they want to shut down all discussion about how Russia interfered with the U.S. election. The SIC affirms that Russia interfered, and indeed we've seen even more evidence emerging about how they did, and that's a danger to the Republic. Now by wanting to shut down all discussion of Russia's interference, the Trump administration is effectively saying that they don't care, which is to say it doesn't matter to them if our elections are open and honest and the business of just Americans -- which is to say they don't care that the government is of this people and by this people and for this people, which is to say that they don't care about the foundation of the country at all in the phrase "We, the people of the United States", which is to say they don't care about the Republic... which is to say that every last one of them was lying when he/she took an oath to serve and protect the Constitution.

It's been inferred before, but now they've made it clear: Trump and company have no loyalty to the Constitution or to the Republic it established.

It is naive to believe that the Russian thing is not in part a partisan attack on the administration, and one which is making it difficult for the administration to function. You are correct that we must not allow foreign interference. But loyalty to the Republic also requires a limit to partisan interference.

 

[ballcaphair]

^ I believe Russia is sitting on a trove of information on both sides. Partisan interference has been the norm for decades. To presume Russia will not play this is also naive. Our Republic has a huge void.

 

[kallipolis]

It is naive to believe that the Russian thing is not in part a partisan attack on the administration, and one which is making it difficult for the administration to function. You are correct that we must not allow foreign interference. But loyalty to the Republic also requires a limit to partisan interference.

Robert Mueller will in due course complete his investigations and we shall become better informed.

 

[Benvolio]

Robert Mueller will in due course complete his investigations and we shall become better informed.

Oct 2018, before elections would be a good estimate.

 

[Kulindahr]

^ I believe Russia is sitting on a trove of information on both sides. Partisan interference has been the norm for decades. To presume Russia will not play this is also naive. Our Republic has a huge void.

From recently revealed machinations it's plain they don't even need to be sitting on any information; they've become experts at taking a kernel of speculation and manipulating the situation so major Western media end up reporting as fact things which have no foundation but which sway public opinion anyway.

 

[ballcaphair]

From recently revealed machinations it's plain they don't even need to be sitting on any information; they've become experts at taking a kernel of speculation and manipulating the situation so major Western media end up reporting as fact things which have no foundation but which sway public opinion anyway.

I give you a hardy Amen.

 

[kallipolis]

Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
Robert Mueller will in due course complete his investigations and we shall become better informed.

Oct 2018, before elections would be a good estimate.

The FBI are not known to be sloths.

I believe that the results of Mueller's investigations will appear much earlier.

James Comey has already paid the price for his mis-timing on those emails.

 

[gsdx]

James Comey has already paid the price for his mis-timing on those emails.

I still believe that was orchestrated.

 

[ballcaphair]

I still believe that was orchestrated.

Or, at the very least a REMIX, orchestrated to blend two tunes. Ours and theirs.

 

[Kulindahr]

I'm surprised the usual 'suspects' haven't weighed in here to defend the corruption.

 

[cocksucker4use]

It is naive to believe that the Russian thing is not in part a partisan attack on the administration, and one which is making it difficult for the administration to function. You are correct that we must not allow foreign interference. But loyalty to the Republic also requires a limit to partisan interference.

Rather like seeing the Nixon Administration hampered in executing on its agenda by that partisan ploy called Watergate.

Again: The Russia Thing the Administration brought upon itself. It is not contrived nor imagined...not false news. The dysfunction in this Administration starts at the top and confounds even those within the West Wing and the GOP Congress trying to put some semblance of an agenda forward. When POTUS refuses to focus and support his own agenda and vascillates from tweet to tweet.

 

[Benvolio]

Rather like seeing the Nixon Administration hampered in executing on its agenda by that partisan ploy called Watergate.

Again: The Russia Thing the Administration brought upon itself. It is not contrived nor imagined...not false news. The dysfunction in this Administration starts at the top and confounds even those within the West Wing and the GOP Congress trying to put some semblance of an agenda forward. When POTUS refuses to focus and support his own agenda and vascillates from tweet to tweet.

There is no evidence Trump had anything to do with it, and for that matter, no evidence of collusion by others with Russia.

 

[kallipolis]

^and, of course there is absolutely no reason for Robert Mueller, and the FBI to investigate the many allegations of collusion between the Trump election campaign, and Russian interests.

The FBI investigation results will certainly clarify matters.

 

[gsdx]

There is no evidence Trump had anything to do with it, and for that matter, no evidence of collusion by others with Russia.

There is no evidence that the sun will rise tomorrow, but, going on past history, we can be quite sure that it will. Trump has a lifelong history of dishonesty and lying and dirty-dealing to get what he wants. There is nothing to say that he didn't continue and isn't continuing his behaviour. That is the more likely scenario.

 

[Stardreamer]

^and, of course there is absolutely no reason for Robert Mueller, and the FBI to investigate the many allegations of collusion between the Trump election campaign, and Russian interests.

The FBI investigation results will certainly clarify matters.

Personally, I think that if there was collusion it was the result of hamfisted stupidity like that meeting between campaign aides and the Russian operatives. I don't rule it out but I think the collusion aspect has been majorly overblown and as a result, the real interference is being downplayed. Which is a shame as it gives Trump far more credit and ingenuity than he actually has.

For the most part, the influence was Russia using its intelligence and propaganda assets to influence the thinking of the American voter. That should be alarming but the overhyping of the collusion aspect is causing it to be dismissed. Ben has even said its a good thing with his 'what's wrong with them exposing Hillary' comments.

 

[kallipolis]

^I''ll not speculate preferring to wait for the FBI to report their findings.

 

[Kulindahr]

There is no evidence Trump had anything to do with it, and for that matter, no evidence of collusion by others with Russia.

People nominated to high positions who lied about their contacts with and involvement with Russian officials is probable cause to assume collusion.

- - - Updated - - -

^and, of course there is absolutely no reason for Robert Mueller, and the FBI to investigate the many allegations of collusion between the Trump election campaign, and Russian interests.

The FBI investigation results will certainly clarify matters.

Assuming they tell us the truth. According to ben, the FBI says what the President wants them to say.

 

[Kulindahr]

Personally, I think that if there was collusion it was the result of hamfisted stupidity like that meeting between campaign aides and the Russian operatives. I don't rule it out but I think the collusion aspect has been majorly overblown and as a result, the real interference is being downplayed. Which is a shame as it gives Trump far more credit and ingenuity than he actually has.

Exactly! I read an article about intelligence, talent, and critical thinking last week, and Trump is an excellent example of someone with middling intelligence, some natural talent, and no critical thinking, a case where talent actually keeps him from far better success because he believes he doesn't really have to do any critical thinking. So he just plows ahead relying on his innate talent -- and when it fails him, he blames others and not himself.

One example struck me hard: kids who do great in high school because they absorb information easily, but then get to college and totally flop because they never learned to apply anything more than that talent, which isn't sufficient at the higher level -- my own experience in learning Greek came right to mind; nearly failing in my first term of it taught me that I really did need to study and not rely on my talent for absorbing information. Trump, in contrast, doesn't seem to have learned that talent isn't enough.

For the most part, the influence was Russia using its intelligence and propaganda assets to influence the thinking of the American voter. That should be alarming but the overhyping of the collusion aspect is causing it to be dismissed. Ben has even said its a good thing with his 'what's wrong with them exposing Hillary' comments.

Yes, and that's the point: those who say "No collusion, so no Russia problem" are demonstrating a total lack of loyalty to the Republic.