Secretary Clinton extends Same Sex Benefits

[construct]

I am not indifferent to inequality, I just dont have the money to be supporting the good fight for inequality.

Sorry if it offends you that I am honest, but that's just me. I am focused on getting through college, and getting a career going. Of course if i went to a big college that had protests and the such, I would totally be involved. But I don't.

Call me what you want, but thats how the world works.

Give me a break! This crap about being focused on school and not having the money is a cop-out. It's self-justifying nonsense.

How long does it take to make a phone call to your legislator's office? If you count looking up the phone number, maybe fifteen minutes at the most. How much would a three to five minute long distance call cost on daytime rates? I don't know--$1.00?

How long would it take to write him a letter? You wouldn't even have to work hard on the content. You've already got your talking points from this very forum right here. All you've got to worry about is composition. The way you write here, you could probably compose a perfectly good letter at your keyboard--first draft is final copy. So how long? Half an hour? What would it cost to produce and send? Half a dollar?

See? You'd spend less time than you spend on any given day typing on this board, and it'll cost you less than a coke and a bag of chips at the student center. What you are saying is a self-justification to make yourself feel better about doing nothing, contributing nothing. I'm having none of it.

And lest you think I'm singling you out, I'll make a more general comment. For any of yas reading this, if the shoe fits (mutatis mutandis), it's meant for you, too.

 

[Lostlover]

Give me a break! This crap about being focused on school and not having the money is a cop-out. It's self-justifying nonsense.

How long does it take to make a phone call to your legislator's office? If you count looking up the phone number, maybe fifteen minutes at the most. How much would a three to five minute long distance call cost on daytime rates? I don't know--$1.00?

How long would it take to write him a letter? You wouldn't even have to work hard on the content. You've already got your talking points from this very forum right here. All you've got to worry about is composition. The way you write here, you could probably compose a perfectly good letter at your keyboard--first draft is final copy. So how long? Half an hour? What would it cost to produce and send? Half a dollar?

See? You'd spend less time than you spend on any given day typing on this board, and it'll cost you less than a coke and a bag of chips at the student center. What you are saying is a self-justification to make yourself feel better about doing nothing, contributing nothing. I'm having none of it.

And lest you think I'm singling you out, I'll make a more general comment. For any of yas reading this, if the shoe fits (mutatis mutandis), it's meant for you, too.

I called it as bullshit too! It's no different than the people a week prior to the election claiming to be undecided.

Apathy and laziness wrapped into one.

There's no excuse at any age to be indifferent to injustices. It's what Americans are known for. You just don't need to go out of your way in making it true that Americans are self absorbed.

 

[Apollo]

Give me a break! This crap about being focused on school and not having the money is a cop-out. It's self-justifying nonsense.

How long does it take to make a phone call to your legislator's office? If you count looking up the phone number, maybe fifteen minutes at the most. How much would a three to five minute long distance call cost on daytime rates? I don't know--$1.00?

How long would it take to write him a letter? You wouldn't even have to work hard on the content. You've already got your talking points from this very forum right here. All you've got to worry about is composition. The way you write here, you could probably compose a perfectly good letter at your keyboard--first draft is final copy. So how long? Half an hour? What would it cost to produce and send? Half a dollar?

See? You'd spend less time than you spend on any given day typing on this board, and it'll cost you less than a coke and a bag of chips at the student center. What you are saying is a self-justification to make yourself feel better about doing nothing, contributing nothing. I'm having none of it.

And lest you think I'm singling you out, I'll make a more general comment. For any of yas reading this, if the shoe fits (mutatis mutandis), it's meant for you, too.

Sorry, but it is true. You can believe that or not.

I also don't find either of those effective. I'd rather either donate money to people out in the thick of it, protesting, lobbying in Washington in person, etc. Than still sitting at my computer and typing letters to my congressman and calling them. That's what I plan to do once I graduate and am established.

Although, thinking about it, the more you write, the more it helps. Of course, I am from the great state of Texas (i do love this state) and my reps don't believe in gay rights, so to really make a change for gays in that way is to vote for new reps.

And I don't drink soda, btw.

 

[Apollo]

I called it as bullshit too! It's no different than the people a week prior to the election claiming to be undecided.

Apathy and laziness wrapped into one.

There's no excuse at any age to be indifferent to injustices. It's what Americans are known for. You just don't need to go out of your way in making it true that Americans are self absorbed.

I never denied I wasn't self-absorbed. It is about me first, and my needs first. And what I need is a education and a career.

But I also need equal rights eventually, thats why I voted for Obama and more liberal reps. I still have faith in Obama, and think it is too early to judge what he is going to do when he is still setting up his admin and policies for the world.

In four years, if he hasn't gotten anywhere, and the country is still shit, maybe I will consider a republican.

 

[MystikWizard]

That would be correct -- gay marriage is a PART of equality. But you confuse me, or attempt to have it both ways. You earlier claimed:

On the one hand you admit that marriage is "part of a bigger picture" (that picture being gay equality), yet (above) you assert that you are "simply amused at those who get all fired up over this issue," even though (as you agreed) that issue is EQUALITY UNDER LAW.

You cannot have it both ways -- you cannot say you are for equality yet mock those who seek a fundamental manifestation of equality: the equal right for two men or women to enter into a legally recognized contract, a contract that is called "marriage."

I can see where one can conclude that I am talking out of both sides of my mouth. The problem is that the two sides of this issue are playing this game on two different playing fields.

All I hear about from the Gay Community is the phrase "Gay Marriage, Gay Marriage, Gay Marriage" over and over and over again re-iterated everywhere.

The problem is that the Gay Community isn't very religious, as a whole ... for understandable reasons. I most certainly am not, either. However, religion is sadly taken very seriously by the majority of this country. And for them, this is a religious issue, in which a majority of them truly feel that God does not approve of homosexuality. And I suppose, in their deluded minds, they think they are truly doing "God's work" by preventing this.

I suppose what I would rather see, is IF the Gay Community perceives this as a Civil Rights Issue, which the topic really is to us ... then I personally think the Gay Community would have a much greater chance of success if they convey this message much clearer to Society, that this is what this is really about. Perhaps conveying your feelings, that Gays feel that they are perceived as "Less than Human" and "not equal in status to Heterosexuals" .... and compare this to racism and bigotry in the past .... thus laying the Groundwork for Marriage ... I think the success rate would be much greater.

It is an Issue I see the Gay Community is putting the cart before the Horse. First, I think the Gay Community needs to convey their feelings to the rest of the country, that this is the way they are felt to be .... and who knows, perhaps it will get more people to attempt to put themselves in our shoes and some even so far as to question "would our God really preach inequality" if Gays portrayed the message a little better that this is viewed as a Civil Rights issue.

So me looking from the outside looking in, I simply feel the Gay Community is going about this all wrong. Groundwork needs to be laid first before simply "Jumping straight into the Ocean" so to speak.

How long are we supposed to wait? Why should full equality -- the equality that allows blacks to drink from water fountains oncer reserved for whites only, the same equality that allows blacks to marry whites, the equality that permits all colors to serve their nation's military -- wait? For how long? I AM A GAY MAN, EQUAL TO EVERY STRAIGHT MAN OR WOMAN OF EVERY COLOR OR CREED. Why should I wait? Why should we wait? And wait for WHAT? Why? Your patience suggest the obverse of your claim that gay equality matters to you. Such patience isn't fitting even for a saint.

I will share some personal thoughts of mine, although one can probably sense this from my posts, even without me saying it. Sadly, I am a very apathetic person to a lot of things. I show very little emotion due to my depression from being Gay. And where as I don't view this in any way, shape, or form as a choice .... I am still angry at the circumstances that I am Gay. And that is where all my apathy comes from.

I simply don't think forcibly shoving Gay Marriage down everyone's throats is the right way to go about this, and I feel could actually do more harm then good. Like I said, education about this is critical first, before intruding on religious ground, that so many within the heterosexual community take seriously, first.

So even with Gay Marriage put in place, no I don't think that is going to solve problems, but rather create more problems. The anger, the hate, and the resentment, and the bigotry is still going to be there because this was something the Heterosexual Community will view as being "forced into Law" and "against the wishes of the majority of the country". That is why I think things will only get worst and people will resent us even more.

I think education on homosexuality is absolutely critical, first ... before taking these steps. I think the success rate of getting Gay Marriage passed across the country would be much higher, if people were better educated on what homosexuality is, first.

With gays like you -- gays willing to wait until the cows come home --why should the president or the Congress give a rat's ass IF THEY EVER deal with the injustice at hand? So long as we act like Happy House Negroes, we will be treated as Happy House Negroes.

Like I asked "Who makes Law?" Does the President "make the law" or does he "sign bills into law?"

You are directing your frustration at the wrong person, and you should be looking at Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, and your local Congressmen .... not Obama. Which was another point I was making. That is, if you feel that this is a Federal Issue and not a States Issue.

I think the better way to approach this is to make it a States Issue first, and making this a gradual change over time ... as opposed to mandating that all states honor Gay Marriage. But that is just me. However, I have also emphasized throughout this post that the education part is critical to the success of this. Again though, the cart is being put before the horse, I feel.

Further, this isn't the Middle East. In some ME nations women cannot drive a car. They are required BY LAW to have sex with their husbands on demand. They are stoned to death for adultery. Your alluding to the ME is facile and silly. Face it, equality for gays isn't a concern to you -- just come out and say it: you don't care that you are less-than every other American, and you have no desire to change our sub-equal status. That's REALLY sad.

Actually, I don't think it is silly to bring up the Middle East at all. If we had Gays being exterminated left and right in the US, then my position would be drastically different.

However, you want too much change too soon. I simply see steps that should be taken before the steps you want to take.

YOU, Alfie, are the Minority in this country. We represent only a very small fraction of the population. That is why you are facing a real uphill battle here, and why I feel that this little game could be played a Hell of a lot smarter than how the Gay Community wants to play it.

 

[Lostlover]

Sorry, but it is true. You can believe that or not.

I also don't find either of those effective. I'd rather either donate money to people out in the thick of it, protesting, lobbying in Washington in person, etc. Than still sitting at my computer and typing letters to my congressman and calling them. That's what I plan to do once I graduate and am established.

Although, thinking about it, the more you write, the more it helps. Of course, I am from the great state of Texas (i do love this state) and my reps don't believe in gay rights, so to really make a change for gays in that way is to vote for new reps.

And I don't drink soda, btw.

That's pure naivete.

Hate to break it to ya, but you're years away from being established. Especially with this economy, why would you want to wait to be established before putting an honest effort into advancing your rights?

Pardon my French, but you using your state representative's closed mindedness as a reason to NOT act is pure bullshit.

 

[Lostlover]

I never denied I wasn't self-absorbed. It is about me first, and my needs first. And what I need is a education and a career.

But I also need equal rights eventually, thats why I voted for Obama and more liberal reps. I still have faith in Obama, and think it is too early to judge what he is going to do when he is still setting up his admin and policies for the world.

In four years, if he hasn't gotten anywhere, and the country is still shit, maybe I will consider a republican.

Bunkum. And you know it.

 

[MCsNo1Fn]

Yep. 4 months into the Presidency of a 4 year term, after one of the worst Presidencies of all time, and apparently Obama is "worthless". All because he isn't making Gay Rights the first priority on his Agenda.

Well, no shit. I would never expect any competent President to make Gay Rights his first and foremost priority. Believe it or not, there are other challenges more important than Gay Rights at the moment, that are prioritized accordingly.

And it is a States Issue. That is what I felt when I voted for Ron Paul during the Primaries. And that is how I feel, today. It is NOT an Obama issue. This really has very little to do with Obama, at all.

Hillary Clinton has publicly said she was also against Gay Marriage. You expect to have that with her?

The House and The Senate need to pass Legislation to make that happen and send it to his or her desk, first.

If you want Gay Marriage to be a National Issue, than perhaps your anger is directed at the wrong person, and you should all be getting in contact with your local Congressmen. Do half of you even have the faintest understand how bills become Law in this country?

I'm well aware that Gay Rights isn't at the forefront of ANYONE's agenda. And personally, I don't really mind if gay marriage happens or doesn't. I don't need it to be happy, so yeah. My main point was someone in this thread basically said Obama should take credit for something Hillary did. I disagree with that 110%. And so far, he's gone back on some of his campaign promises. Judging just by the first month, realizing he's still got nearly 4 years, so far, in my opinion, he hasn't accomplished much.

 

[NickCole]

My main point was someone in this thread basically said Obama should take credit for something Hillary did. I disagree with that 110%.

But if Obama doesn't take credit for what other people do, he won't have any successes in his column except having won elections.

Signing laws that others push through, or attaching his name to legislation once the heavy lifting is done, is good but it's not much of an accomplishment, but that's pretty much the sum total of the good stuff he's done so far in his long career.

As Senator, state and US, most of the legislation he's claimed credit for was somebody else's work that he got his name attached to. The legislation he's had a substantive hand in has not been successful. His nuclear power plant legislation got watered down to nothing and then even that couldn't pass (though he did lie and claim it had). As President, his economic stimulus bill and financial bailouts and credit card legislation are not going to make the economy healthy, though it's piling on a buttload of debt. His healthcare legislation, I predict, will not be a bold state of the art advance for healthcare access and lowering costs, even though he's got a filibuster proof Congress and can write it any way he wants. So if Obama supporters don't give him credit for what others like Hillary Clinton do, he's just a wannabe who seduced people into giving him a big promotion and all he did with it was create a resume of woulda coulda shoulda written all over it. Now, how would that look for The One We've Been Waiting For?

 

[NickCole]

This clear, bold and complete statement and action that Hillary Clinton is leading is real change.

This report released today:

In a notice to be sent soon to State Department employees, Clinton says regulations that denied same-sex couples and their families the same rights and privileges that straight diplomats enjoyed are "unfair and must end," as they harm U.S. diplomacy.

"Providing training, medical care and other benefits to domestic partners promote the cohesiveness, safety and effectiveness of our posts abroad," she says in the message, a copy of which was obtained by The Associated Press.

"It will also help the department attract and retain personnel in a competitive environment where domestic partner benefits and allowances are increasingly the norm for world-class employers," she says.

"At bottom, the department will provide these benefits for both opposite-sex and same-sex domestic partners because it is the right thing to do," Clinton says.

Among the benefits that will now be granted gay diplomats: the right of domestic partners to hold diplomatic passports, government-paid travel for their partners and families to and from foreign posts, and the use of U.S. medical facilities abroad.

In addition, gay diplomats' families will now be eligible for U.S. government emergency evacuations and training courses at the Foreign Service Institute, the message says.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/23/gay-us-diplomats-to-recei_n_207116.html

 

[Apollo]

That's pure naivete.

Hate to break it to ya, but you're years away from being established. Especially with this economy, why would you want to wait to be established before putting an honest effort into advancing your rights?

Pardon my French, but you using your state representative's closed mindedness as a reason to NOT act is pure bullshit.

I graduate in three years, and the career I am going into isnt being deeply impacted by this economic downturn. If anything, there is a higher need for graphic designers as companies try and get people to buy more stuff.

And to me, I consider being established as having a good place to live, I have a stable job, getting a good paycheck. I see that taking only a year. That's when i'll take a deep breath and feel like I am safe...until something random happens.

If you read what I wrote, I did consider what you said as a good idea, and that I do have conservative reps. Doesn't mean I wont do it. I might actually do it. I was apart of moveon.org for awhile, I might start that back up.

 

[Apollo]

Bunkum. And you know it.

What?................

 

[construct]

I am from the great state of Texas (i do love this state) and my reps don't believe in gay rights, so to really make a change for gays in that way is to vote for new reps.

Well, I don't know who your Congressman is; so I'll talk about the senators. You're probably right about John Cornyn. I'll give you a pass on him. But there's a fair number of gay Republicans who think that Kay Bailey Hutchison is talkable to. I figure she's about in the middle of the Republican pack; so it might be worth a try. We'll probably have a chance to replace her in about a year anyway if she runs for governor.

The Texas lege is about ready to wrap up the session, and nothing has gotten anywhere there (good or bad). It'd be nice to pick up a few Democratic seats in the House in the Fall of 2010. Then we might start making ground at the state level again.

Anyway, even if the letter or the phone call doesn't change their minds, you couldn't say their bad votes came from your lack of trying, and there's something to be said for that. That letter or that phone call will give you a warm feeling in your heart even if it does nothing else.

 

[archive]

no one reads the whole the thread lol......well nick lol...

i honestly dont think we need to change obama...we need to change US citizens....
if more voters were "gay friendly"...(lack of a better phrase...this thread hurt my head).....senators and house members alike would vote yes on gay rights....and i see alot of people dont know actually the events to the civil rights act being passed

 

[NickCole]

no one reads the whole the thread lol......well nick lol...

i honestly dont think we need to change obama...we need to change US citizens....

Before the election Obama promised to bring change.

But he's not doing that.

Thankfully for gays at State and their partners, Hillary Clinton is leading substantive change.

if more voters were "gay friendly"...(lack of a better phrase...this thread hurt my head).....senators and house members alike would vote yes on gay rights...

That's not the way civil rights get forwarded.

A majority of voters don't become "friendly" to a minority that's been discriminated against and grant them equal rights; someone(s) of courage and conviction has to lead that change. Obama claimed to be an agent of change. Of course, he's unprincipled and passive, so there's no way he'll do it. But he did make that promise and his supporters claimed it would happen.

No matter the minority, Native Americans or blacks or gays or women, we've always moved closer to equal rights as a result of the principled convictions of a few, not the "friendliness" of the masses.

...and i see alot of people dont know actually the events to the civil rights act being passed

Yikes. You did hurt your head didn't you? Ought to let that heal.

 

[archive]

Before the election Obama promised to bring change.







That's not the way civil rights get forwarded.

A majority of voters don't become "friendly" to a minority that's been discriminated against and grant them equal rights; someone(s) of courage and conviction has to lead that change. Obama claimed to be an agent of change. Of course, he's unprincipled and passive, so there's no way he'll do it. But he did make that promise and his supporters claimed it would happen.

No matter the minority, Native Americans or blacks or gays or women, we've always moved closer to equal rights as a result of the principled convictions of a few, not the "friendliness" of the masses.





Yikes. You did hurt your head didn't you? Ought to let that heal.

please....you screaming obama and change is bullshit.....hes a politician...get over it...he said what he needed to win....any other politician would do the same.....and its going to keep happening as long as people vote on issues that are good for a part and not the whole....obama's not going to wave some magic wand and poof....we are whole ...it doesnt work that way.....and you know it



and about civil rights act being passed....alot of things led up to it....but what finally turned into the inevitable snowball.....was the change of public opinion and the heat of the moment....hell it took almost a century for the same act to be passed that was declared unconstitutional before...

 

[chuck10x]

please....you screaming obama and change is bullshit.....hes a politician...get over it...he said what he needed to win....any other politician would do the same.....and its going to keep happening as long as people vote on issues that are good for a part and not the whole....obama's not going to wave some magic wand and poof....we are whole ...it doesnt work that way.....and you know it

President Obama's campaign was all about "CHANGE".
In your post you suggest he lied to get elected.
Now I do think he had every intention of change, Until he won and reality set in.
From the beginning I knew he would be unable to keep MOST of his promises.
But, I voted for him thinking he would pass some of his promises.
As president, Obama is falling short of what I expected, But it has only been 5 months.
I'm willing to give him a chance to redeem his campaign promises.
I don't expect him to wave a magic wand, Just grow a set of balls and do his job.

 

[archive]

President Obama's campaign was all about "CHANGE".
In your post you suggest he lied to get elected.
Now I do think he had every intention of change, Until he won and reality set in.
From the beginning I knew he would be unable to keep MOST of his promises.
But, I voted for him thinking he would pass some of his promises.
As president, Obama is falling short of what I expected, But it has only been 5 months.
I'm willing to give him a chance to redeem his campaign promises.
I don't expect him to wave a magic wand, Just grow a set of balls and do his job.

what did you expect.....more executive orders?

 

[chuck10x]

what did you expect.....more executive orders?

No, I expect him to Stand and Deliver.
The Democrats are now in charge of the White House, Senate and House.
What is the hold up on those changes?
You can't blame the Republicans anymore.
If the Democrats in the house and Senate are voted out, And Republicans take the majority, Obama will quickly become a footnote in history much like Carter.

 

[Apollo]

what did you expect.....more executive orders?

a lot of Clintons second term was tons of executive orders. in truth, it was because he had a hostile congress his second term.