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Sexual Politics

miss thang, if you think that voting for whomever your'e voting for is the best for YOU, that's fine.

I'm not even saying you shoudln't vote for a REpublican.. I dont' know who's in your district.

My point all along was about people voting for things that DON'T concern them instead of on issues that DO concern them.

Understand?
 
Soilwork said:
My point all along was about people voting for things that DON'T concern them instead of on issues that DO concern them.

Understand?
Click to expand...

OK, fine. But that was NOT your point all along. You said that poor people will vote against democrats because they oppose gay marriage.

Isn't it possible, just possible, that some poor people believe that legalizing gay marriage WILL affect them? Maybe, just maybe, poor people have the same concerns that others have about the possibility that legalizing gay marriage will lead to other, undesirable, consequences?

Unless, of course, you believe that poor people are just stupid and shouldn't be allowed to vote. MANY issues, unrelated to economics, concern poor people.

Should I make you a pie chart?

A4A
 
Austin40acres said:
OK, fine. But that was NOT your point all along. You said that poor people will vote against democrats because they oppose gay marriage.
Click to expand...

it was an example, professor.

and it WAS my point all along with that one example.

Oh forget it... I can't argue with anyone who can't even understand the points I'm trying to make... you don't have to agree with them, but you shoult at least understand sentences and words and stuff.
 
I give up, too.

I understand grammar. AND, I understand that words have meaning. So, what you originally said is not what you meant, and I called you on it.

So, therefore, I'm the idiot.

Yep. I lose.

A4A
 
once upon a time i got paid to observe people like politicians and let me tell ya whats about to happen...

the repubs are going to have their asses handed to them on a silver platter

its going to be really ugly

and all that crap that they have been up to for th last five years?

the congress is going to spend the next two years leading up to the presidential elections in SERIOUS congressional oversight hearings

MANY MANY laws will be overturned and things are going to snap back hard in the other direction

the sad thing is that the repubs could have saved their asses if they had only been more honest and open. Five years later and we are more hated and reviled than ever.

America wont forget or forgive this shit for a long long time.

even the repub governorships are threatened around the country right now.

I say good riddance

it has nothing to do with my sexual preference

its about my personal freedoms
 
Another thread degrading into a pissing contest between Repubs and Dems. I think it behooves all to understand that over the past couple of decades there has been an effort (so far successful) to polarize the electorate. Each group has been taken over by the extremes of each party, the Repubs by the Evangelical Right and the Dems by the far left wing. That is all that is being protrayed with each. It does not matter that the majority of this country are middle grounders. Of course there are varying degrees within that bell curve. Still, the actual majority is not being heard, but are fed sound bites and take up the push button lines without actual thinking.

Not all conservatives are republican and not all liberals are democrats. Most often if one gets past the push button sound bites and can really discuss the issues, it would suprise many that there is agreement on most aspsects, just how to go about it might bring difference. I know many people in my life who are liberal and they are damn good people and I know conservatives who are the same. They have real concerns about what both parties are doing and trying to figure out what to do.

One thing to look at is the Corporations and wealthy (both Dems and Repubs) that have lobbyists at their disposal and push hard to get what the big money people want. It all comes with strings attached, but also the institution of the legislative houses have changed over the years and have established their own system of doing things, then there is the bureauocratic system with their legions of foolish know nothings but who approve or stall changes, all which serves to thwart the efforts of honest politicians to make change. So perhaps taking the money out of politics would help and I am not quite sure how it is to be done.

But this constant bickering between groups as to who is the worst for this or that is playing into the hands of corporations and the wealthy to ensure their agenda is what is done and to hell with the people. The only thing this group fears is a ground swell of the people actually coming together and demanding changes that benefit the country as a whole and cuts their connections to government in such a way as to prevent "King making".

Stop with the bickering for gosh sake. Each has a concern, then find the middle ground, we are not action potentials where it is all or nothing. True politics is the art of compromise, but compromise for the actual good of the country. Everything else is plan bs.
 
Austin40

u really need to take a logic class. it's been a few years, but i belive phl313k is still being taught. or some other upper division phl class. for that matter, any writing component class should help a little bit. u made a massive jump in reasoning that is not what soil said.
 
Jayhew, i dont mean any disrespect, but i think you are expecting alot given the current state of affairs in the nation. people are very angry right now and thats just the way it is. a recent poll i read said that 60 percent off all voters plan on voting specifically against the president in the congressional elections.... and remember.. he's not even running!!

I am not a member of either party but thats only because neither one is liberal enough for me.

the repubs have made it clear that they want to deprive me of my civil rights as a gay man and i will take great ammounts of time as often as posible to give them as much greif as they give gay people.

the Democrats are figuring out that they arent going to win the game by trying to steal the republican's thunder, so you can kiss the new american conservatism goodbye

and by the way

thank the president for that one

when you talk about politics, you have to define yourself and there are two clear camps in american politics with two parties clearly associated with their views

thats just the nature of the beast

have you ever heard two frenchmen arguing politics? how about the House of Commons in England?

OOOOOHOHHH

it makes this all sound like a walk in the park with tea ;)
 
Personally, I'm sick of partisanship in America. And yes, there is a huge amount of weight to the Marriage Equality issue in the way I vote.

The problem with America today, is that people think that they have to vote one way or another. In India, they have over 100 political parties, all with different philosophies, and it still works...

I personally believe that George Washington was right when he said that we shouldn't establish political parties.

Neither party adequately addresses the needs of the American public. They just distract us from the real issues and breed disinterest and apathy in the public so they don't have to worry about the voters.:grrr:
 
Andreus- None taken at all. That I agree with you might come as a bit of a suprise. But one can only hope to keep pushing for dialogue with the people. Right now the National parties are setting the agenda or even the issues. I grant you the populace is angry about a multitude of things, but within my area of discussion with friends I only caution to not throw the baby out with the bath water and vote against any one party done the line, but vote for who you think will do the best. Pie in the sky perhaps, but just trying to cling to the hope that the American people generally are still more intelligent than most think.

The only other thing that may be happening and it is difficult to see it when it is taking place, is one of the current parties is going to fall completely apart and there will be a formation of a new party. It is my feeling that it will be the Republican party as over the past decade + they have overthrown the middle ground and moved towards the extreme of the right. Without the middle of the roaders supporting them, they will fall apart or become a non-entity. It is beginning and it will spread.

Still over all, we as a people need to come together and decide where we are going and what are we becoming. It can happen. But as long as we have the extremes of both parties setting the issues and agenda, the old Roman rule will apply - divide and conquer. As long as we all continue to deal with each other as we are now with such polarization, "the powers that be" have us right where they want us - controlled by them pushing our emotions.
 
but in those countries you are forced to form coalition party governments to get a majority and that can wreak havoc on a governments stability.

i see your point elworth, and i sure with we had more choices as well.

i just dont know if getting rid of the two party system is a good idea

it kills a formed minority party that watches those in charge as well.

i think that the founders never meant for there to be only two permanent parties with any real power.

thats just the way it worked out. I think of this often and i just cant come up with a better system that would work for america.
 
I tend to vote Green now because I agree with much of their platform. This includes a strong gay rights component. Here, unlike the U.S., we are fortunate that minor parties can and do make a difference!
 
Well, if a politician favors banning gay marriage, denounces gay adoption, and personally hates gay people and thinks we're disgusting sinners and would work to basically punish or limit me or any other gay person or make us inequal and wouldn't defend my rights to be an equal citizen and be lax towards people who do wrong to gay people because we're gay and soley because of that, I'm probably not going to vote for him or her.

You, know, because that would be completely stupid.

And well, Soil's statement is akin to this which is how I feel:

Seeing down-the-middle Christians vote Republican because Republican candidates whore out their religious beliefs is heartbreaking.

Soil is just saying that it's heart breaking to see people vote against their best interests just because of one overblown and super-polarized issue.
 
Gays should vote for the party/candidate that speaks up for their rights.

How any gay person could vote Republican - or Tory in the UK - is beyond comprehension. Yet California has a Republican Governor. How come?
 
It has some influence. I choose a candidate based on a number of factors. Are they capable of doing the job? Do they share the same views I do? There's never been a candidate that I agreed with on all issues. Sometimes it's a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils.
 
So, if you vote today in the USA, will being gay influence your vote?
 
i am voting against the way the war in Iraq has been handled. we are not being told the truth and that is the issue for me today.

i can also tell you that i want the republicans out of the majority before they ammend the constitution to disallow gay marriage as well.

my sexual identity is a minor motivation on my choices, not a primary one.
 
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