Should a Catholic Accept Evolutionary Theory Without Qualifications?

[kallipolis]

ummm what are you talking about?
Have you heard anyone believe in evolution also believe in miracles ? I haven't !!

That's my question, squarely directed at you.

Evolutionary Theory is the topic here...if you wish to discuss, miracles start a new thread, and I will contribute.

 

[Telstra]

That's my question, squarely directed at you.

Evolutionary Theory is the topic here...if you wish to discuss, miracles start a new thread, and I will contribute.

Isn't this statement linked "
"If you understand evolution, you will be very skeptical about supernatural stuff out there. "

 

[kallipolis]

Isn't this statement linked "
"If you understand evolution, you will be very skeptical about supernatural stuff out there. "

That's your contention....your opinion pursuing a particular agenda....not a statement of fact...

 

[palbert]

The Monsignor seems to have resolved many conundrums to his own satisfaction and in a way not inconsistent with evolution. I find the über-god unnecessary, but that is my view. An instructive look into a belief system expressed articulately.

 

[bankside]

I do think the main alternative to evolutionary theory is miraculous creation.

 

[palemale]

As a Catholic, I do not have to believe that Man evolved from Apes, as Man has a far greater Intelligence than that of the animal world, far greater than the supposed ancestry with Apes, and as a Catholic, I do not, and am not required to believe that Man was created within a literal 7 days time table as stated in Genesis account of Creation. I do believe that there was a literal Adam and Eve who are mentioned in the book of Genesis. I do believe that Creation took a lot longer than the Genesis time table. Could God have done his creation in a literal 7 days? Yes, he could have if he wanted to, because he has the Power to do so.


To believe or not to believe in the Theory of Evolution is not a requirement for my Salvation.

I am a product of a strong Catholic upbringing, including catechism and Catholic schools from the 1960s and 1970s. I never once learned in Catholic school that there was any reason to doubt the theory of evolution. In fact, we were taught that evolution was scientific fact, but that it was also part of God's plan. Period.

It sounds like you are learning Catholic doctrine from fundamentalist Protestants.

 

[Love me 2]

I am a product of a strong Catholic upbringing, including catechism and Catholic schools from the 1960s and 1970s. I never once learned in Catholic school that there was any reason to doubt the theory of evolution. In fact, we were taught that evolution was scientific fact, but that it was also part of God's plan. Period.

It sounds like you are learning Catholic doctrine from fundamentalist Protestants.

The 1960's and the 1970's, tsk, tsk, tsk! The age of Modern errors. Evolution was never taught as a fact within Catholicism. There are elements of evolution that the Church has no problems with, and there are elements that are contrary to Catholicism. Evolution is still a theory, not a Fact. As for me learning Catholic doctrine from Fundamentalist Protestants, that is impossible as a Catholic.

 

[Love me 2]

If what you say is true of Catholicism, then you should not be a Catholic, because it is leading you away from knowledge and into fantasy.

WOW! You truly do misunderstand Catholicism, and what we are required/not required to believe.

 

[Love me 2]

Evolutionary science is very powerful.
If you understand evolution, you will be very skeptical about supernatural stuff out there.

Evolutionary elements in the theory that does not contradict God's Creation, will lead me to deeper things of the Supernatural, It will only increase my Faith in God's power in His Creation.

 

[Love me 2]

I do think the main alternative to evolutionary theory is miraculous creation.

I think it can be had both ways within the belief system of Catholicism, as long as some elements of the Theory does not contradict the teachings of the Church in these matters at hand.

 

[Love me 2]

Agreed....so why raise the issue for discussion here?

The Church does allow beliefs in Evolution as long as elements do not contradict the teachings set forth by the Church and her guidelines concerning the Sciences.

 

[Love me 2]

Then with all due respect my friend you should broaden the reading material that includes more than just doctrine.
Science has proven that man did indeed originate in Africa,and many speculate that the garden of Eden was indeed somewhere in Iraq or Iran.

If you only knew just how much reading and studying that I have done over the years. You just mentioned an area that Church and Science has agreed on. Nice to know we are on the same page on that one.

 

[palbert]

The Church does allow beliefs in Evolution as long as elements do not contradict the teachings set forth by the Church and her guidelines concerning the Sciences.

You state above "evolution is not a fact." So why would the Church - and the Monsignor - be plagued to accommodate it? Your last numerous posts argue both sides of the issue, first, one, then, the other.

Stake out you ground and stop playing "where's the bean."

 

[FirmaFan]

The 1960's and the 1970's, tsk, tsk, tsk! The age of Modern errors. Evolution was never taught as a fact within Catholicism. There are elements of evolution that the Church has no problems with, and there are elements that are contrary to Catholicism. Evolution is still a theory, not a Fact. As for me learning Catholic doctrine from Fundamentalist Protestants, that is impossible as a Catholic.

To again clarify what it means by "theory" when talking about evolution:

http://www.notjustatheory.com/

You have a very limited understanding of the subject of evolution it would seem. I encourage you to look into the subject further before posting your claims about the subject. I know, have studied, and have a degree in the science of biology and evolution, and am happy to clarify any misconceptions you might have. If you had read my post earlier in this thread (post number 6) I don't think you would have been so quick to make such a tired statement as "evolution is a theory, not a fact" - a statement made only by those ignorant of the definitions of the terms they are attempting to discuss.

 

[FirmaFan]

The Church does allow beliefs in Evolution as long as elements do not contradict the teachings set forth by the Church and her guidelines concerning the Sciences.

What you are essentially saying is that you have a doctrine, a belief system, that you have accepted as fact, and any evidence that contradicts those beliefs you refuse to accept as true, regardless of the evidence. That tells me that you have no real interest in truth, no interest in understanding the true nature of reality, and are willing to essentially sacrifice your intellectual integrity for the sake of your beliefs. Truth does not matter to you, only your beliefs. For me, I want to be as sure as possible that to the best of my ability my beliefs are true and accurate. You seem to hold onto beliefs and reject others based on some standard other than truth.

 

[bankside]

WOW! You truly do misunderstand Catholicism, and what we are required/not required to believe.

The trouble with your view is the idea that the church has the power to allow or disallow what can be discovered about the universe. It can't. That's because discovery must be based on what really happens in the universe. If it contradicts church teachings, it does not prove that the discovery was wrong, but that the church teachings were wrong. You seem determined to have it the other way around.

 

[palbert]

Pardon me, but I have trouble squaring your broken field running here with your Catechism reference in kallipolis' Science and theistic belief thread, which reference is:

159 Faith and science: "Though faith is above reason, there can never be any real discrepancy between faith and reason. Since the same God who reveals mysteries and infuses faith has bestowed the light of reason on the human mind, God cannot deny himself, nor can truth ever contradict truth."37 "Consequently, methodical research in all branches of knowledge, provided it is carried out in a truly scientific manner and does not override moral laws, can never conflict with the faith, because the things of the world and the things of faith derive from the same God. the humble and persevering investigator of the secrets of nature is being led, as it were, by the hand of God in spite of himself, for it is God, the conserver of all things, who made them what they are."38

As evolution is a methodically researched discipline you are not compelled or encouraged to doubt it, for the Church here holds it consistent with the über-god's work.

Your rereading of your source article seems indicated.

 

[kallipolis]

The Church does allow beliefs in Evolution as long as elements do not contradict the teachings set forth by the Church and her guidelines concerning the Sciences.

Agreed...................

 

[kallipolis]

Pardon me, but I have trouble squaring your broken field running here with your Catechism reference in kallipolis' Science and theistic belief thread, which reference is:



As evolution is a methodically researched discipline you are not compelled or encouraged to doubt it, for the Church here holds it consistent with the über-god's work.

Your rereading of your source article seems indicated.

Your observation is well founded.

 

[palbert]

We are left with the paradox of the infinite regress, totally unassailable, as each advocate would say.

And as for belief systems, it is easily encountered:

A well-known scientist (some say it was Bertrand Russell) once gave a public lecture on astronomy. He described how the earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the center of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy. At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: "What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise." The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, "What is the tortoise standing on?" "You're very clever, young man, very clever," said the old lady. "But it's tortoises all the way down!"

---Stephen Hawking (1988)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down (one of many variants)

Until that is recognized the discussion remains sterile. All are left with no more than belief.