Should Dr. Shaknovsky serve time in prison for involuntary manslaughter?

[NotHardUp1]

An Alabama man who lived an hour from me was vacationing in the Fllorida panhandle when he became ill. At the hospital, he was advised he must undergo an emergency splenectomy.

(Mr. Bryan, his wife, and his surgeon in the inset)

During the surgery, his surgeon removed his liver instead, killing him via instant hemorrhaging. Even after removing the liver, the surgeon proceeded to label it as the spleen.

A subsequent autopsy found the spleen intact and the liver missing.

Man dies after liver removed instead of spleen. It happens more often than you think. What to know

A Johns Hopkins study found a surgeon performs the wrong procedure on a patient 20 times a week and operates on the wrong body site 20 times a week.

www.pnj.com

Despite the media's insipid use of "alleged" to describe events and actions, rather than only to describe crimes or intent, the malpractice is unambiguosly true. Dr. Shaknovsky did remove the liver in error.

Sadly, the good doctor removed part of a patient's pancreas just last year in error, believing it to be an adrenal gland.

The absurdity of the case would lead one to conclude that it is so rare as to be a freak occurrence statistically, yet the Pensacola News Journal article referenced a Johns Hopkins study that indicates it is not as rare as we'd suppose. Arguably, the incidence may be even higher when one considers how many surgeons may be able to cover up bungles when operating in less-policed hospitals

Without a doubt, the hospital and the surgeon will settle civil suits for many millions, but does that address the criminal negligence? After all, no one went to prison for the Deepwater Horizon event, and only a handful of Indians served two-year sentences for the Bhopal disaster.

What should be the liability of medical professionals? They save many lives. But, do they still have to meet justice if they take one through incompetence?

 

[cityboy-stl]

Yes, he should serve time and permanently lose his medical licenses.

 

[EddMarkStarr]

Yes, criminal prosecution is necessary to address the growing horror of surgery errors, and every state needs to review and update laws - or this situation will get out of hand. Hospitals are guilty of treating these cases as "insurance matters" and money settlements give all the parties involved an easy out.

 

[unloadonme]

What kind of surgeon doesn't know the difference between a spleen and a liver? Even my schoolboy biology covered that. Such a level of gross incompetence should definitely see him behind bars and defrocked.

 

[Nude_Dude]

What should be the liability of medical professionals? They save many lives. But, do they still have to meet justice if they take one through incompetence?

With only relying on the media for "facts" - sometimes the voice of "mob mentality" can be a little concerning
I don't know the situation in your America, but I know it's not unusual for surgeons to be putting in hours as needed - sometimes up t0 20-hour shifts, in a 24-hour period.
Our sleep experts have warned this is the equivalent of doing surgery while quite intoxicated.
A bus or cab driver is barred by law from driving such hours, possibly endangering lives.
But a heart transplant surgeon has no such limitations.
He/she can continue theatre work, as long as he/she can still stand up - and hold a scalpel.

 

[NotHardUp1]

With only relying on the media for "facts" - sometimes the voice of "mob mentality" can be a little concerning
I don't know the situation in your America, but I know it's not unusual for surgeons to be putting in hours as needed - sometimes up t0 20-hour shifts, in a 24-hour period.
Our sleep experts have warned this is the equivalent of doing surgery while quite intoxicated.
A bus or cab driver is barred by law from driving such hours, possibly endangering lives.
But a heart transplant surgeon has no such limitations.
He/she can continue theatre work, as long as he/she can still stand up - and hold a scalpel.

Although I appreciate and agree with your comment on the rush to judgment, the facts of this case are fairly uncontested. No one is claiming there was another surgeon operating. The autopsy is complete, so the basics of the spleen being intact and the liver removal causing death are published facts. The contributing factors and liability are what remains, and I'm sure the hospital carries its own degree of complicity in a) not having barred the doctor after the previous year's mishap, and b) for not having other competent operating room staff supporting the doctor who should have been able to detect the error in progress.

That said, I'm fine with treating the case as hypothetical until all the marbles have stopped rolling, but the question and the horrific instance of "never" mistakes is a good topic.

To your comment on fatigue, my question would be "how is that different from a drunk driver operating a motor vehicle?" Doctors, of all people, know the limitations of sleep deprivation. ER doctors have long been infamous for all their braggadocio statements about pulling long shifts. To the degree that any of that is still true after all these years, then I'm perfectly fine with the hospitals and the doctors sharing culpability and punishment.

There is no reason hospitals have to demand heroics of surgeons, or even admitting doctors. If a doctor is paid to attend for one 18-hour shift, then he can be paid to attend for two 9-hour ones.

Doctors often manipulate their own availability to enrich themselves with the office hours of their own choosing in addition to their operating room hours. They schedule their operatitons, not the hospitals. If they book long hours, it is of their choosing, not because they are compelled by an outside organization.

Still, I'm not sure where the balance lies. If a doctor saves 100, 1,000, or 10,000 lives, does he earn some protection from the 1 or 5 or 10 that he takes? Can we prosecute one without rewarding the other? Where does the morality or ethic land?

 

[pigface]

This would be a fairly complicated surgery. There must have nurses and others in attendance, assisting. They ought to know basic biology too.

Certainly doctors can't be expected to be perfect in every procedure, but how did he pass medical school exams?

 

[Alistair]

I heard on the radio that the doctor wasn’t even operating on the correct patient, he was supposed to be operating on another. I can’t find any evidence to support that claim.

 

[rareboy]

Let me guess. He got his medical degree from Trump U.? Or Liberty?

 

[NotHardUp1]

Let me guess. He got his medical degree from Trump U.? Or Liberty?

Politics be damned. Suggesting that stupid and incompetent are the preserver of the GOP or MAGA or Baptists is idiotic in itself. There is plenty to go around. The whole point of the Johns Hopkins' study was that these never events are occurrng at a staggering rate.

According to the site below, he earned his undergraduate degree in the very Roman Catholic Loyola University. He earned his medical doctorate in Illinois and did residency in New Jersey. I don't see any political connection in any of those, but you do you. Keep spinning everything into politics.

Dr Thomas Shaknovsky Bio - All About Florida Surgeon Sued After Mistakenly Removing Patient's Liver - GhanaCelebrities.Com

Dr Thomas Shaknovsky, a General surgeon with Ascension Sacred Heart Emerald Coast Hospital in Miramar Beach, Florida, has been sued after mistakenly removing a patient’s liver during surgery, killing him. Mr William Bryan, 70, and his wife, Beverly, of Muscle Shoals, Alabama, had visited Florida...

www.ghanacelebrities.com

 

[NotHardUp1]

I heard on the radio that the doctor wasn’t even operating on the correct patient, he was supposed to be operating on another. I can’t find any evidence to support that claim.

Any blunder possible is imaginable, but it's hard to conceive of how that could be. The staff triple-checks patient identity in pre-op. And he must have been the surgeon contracted by the family, else the lawsuit would cite his errant participation.

If your account is true, it's certainly possible he was mixed up about who was on the table, even if the staff were not. It's hard to believe there was no discussion with the nurses about what the operation was for.

 

[rareboy]

Politics be damned. Suggesting that stupid and incompetent are the preserver of the GOP or MAGA or Baptists is idiotic in itself. There is plenty to go around. The whole point of the Johns Hopkins' study was that these never events are occurrng at a staggering rate.

According to the site below, he earned his undergraduate degree in the very Roman Catholic Loyola University. He earned his medical doctorate in Illinois and did residency in New Jersey. I don't see any political connection in any of those, but you do you. Keep spinning everything into politics.

Dr Thomas Shaknovsky Bio - All About Florida Surgeon Sued After Mistakenly Removing Patient's Liver - GhanaCelebrities.Com

Dr Thomas Shaknovsky, a General surgeon with Ascension Sacred Heart Emerald Coast Hospital in Miramar Beach, Florida, has been sued after mistakenly removing a patient’s liver during surgery, killing him. Mr William Bryan, 70, and his wife, Beverly, of Muscle Shoals, Alabama, had visited Florida...

www.ghanacelebrities.com

Not about politics. Just examples of piss poor places people earn degrees. I suppose I might have said he did his degree by corresponcdence course from the back of a matchbook cover, but most people aren't old enough to remember those shyster college degrees.

But good on Loyola. They apparently graduated someone who is a pure incompetent and according to you criminally liable.

You are the one with the nooses in your hand, not me.

 

[Essex Boy]

There was a broadly similar case in Britain a few years ago, though I can't remember enough details to find a link. An inquiry decided that the problem was a culture of bullying and intimidation in the surgery trade. Senior figures, consultants and surgeons, are regarded as masters of the universe. They are always right even when they're wrong and nobody will dare stand up to them for fear of being screamed at or dismissed. There are similar stories about the police and the armed forces, where a senior officer is so overbearing that subordinates are too terrified to speak up when they know something's wrong because it would would undermine the reputation of the force.

 

[NotHardUp1]

Not about politics. Just examples of piss poor places people earn degrees. I suppose I might have said he did his degree by corresponcdence course from the back of a matchbook cover, but most people aren't old enough to remember those shyster college degrees.

But good on Loyola. They apparently graduated someone who is a pure incompetent and according to you criminally liable.

You are the one with the nooses in your hand, not me.

If you read my posts, you'd see that I asked the question of criminal culpability, not assigned it.

And I further probed the issue by asking if the lives they save is a mitigation for the errors they may make.

Any nooses I do hold are purely academic, as I do not advocate vigilante justice, and I don't support any organization in the process of advocating for capital punishment, even though I endorse it.

Loyola Chicago rated #142 out of the 439 National Universities ranked. That's not a bottom feeder or "piss poor" campus to earn a degree.

For the record, no university graduates a competent surgeon as an undergraduate. Undergrad degrees don't give any future surgeon any practicum in live human surgery. The competency there can only be learned or proven in the actual surgical theater.

Both Trump U. and Liberty are seen correctly as political attacks on the subjects, especially in light of your tireless posts against both Fundamentalists and Trump's minions, both of whom are valid political views, but are completely irrelevant in this thread. It's not a political topic. It's a medical ethics topic.

 

[NotHardUp1]

There was a broadly similar case in Britain a few years ago, though I can't remember enough details to find a link. An inquiry decided that the problem was a culture of bullying and intimidation in the surgery trade. Senior figures, consultants and surgeons, are regarded as masters of the universe. They are always right even when they're wrong and nobody will dare stand up to them for fear of being screamed at or dismissed. There are similar stories about the police and the armed forces, where a senior officer is so overbearing that subordinates are too terrified to speak up when they know something's wrong because it would would undermine the reputation of the force.

That has been proven true in professions across the spectrum. More than one commercial jetliner has been brought down by an incompetent, incapacitated, or arrogan pilot, unchallenged by his underlings even when they detected his error.

The powerful are powerful. No one in more powerful in the operating room than the surgeon.

 

[pigface]

.

If your account is true, it's certainly possible he was mixed up about who was on the table, even if the staff were not. It's hard to believe there was no discussion with the nurses about what the operation was for.

There is no condition where an entire liver is removed as treatment. You cannot survive without. Partial removal, maybe if it's diseased, but that diseased section would be visible, and never be removed without reference to previously performed scans.
The story is very strange for many reasons.

 

[NotHardUp1]

There is no condition where an entire liver is removed as treatment. You cannot survive without. Partial removal, maybe if it's diseased, but that diseased section would be visible, and never be removed without reference to previously performed scans.
The story is very strange for many reasons.

It was a laproscopic surgery, so presumably it did not come out in one piece. I have no idea whether any artery or duct on the spleen would resemble a liver connection in situ.

It's genuinely a horrific account, the stuff of nightmares. His children and widow will become enriched, if not happy. At least he was 70 and had lived a lot and was somewhat wealthy, having a condo in addition to his home.

Who knows how many years he was robbed of enjoying, if any, but he didn't die young, at least.

 

[frankfrank]

Yes, criminal prosecution is necessary to address the growing horror of surgery errors, and every state needs to review and update laws - or this situation will get out of hand. Hospitals are guilty of treating these cases as "insurance matters" and money settlements give all the parties involved an easy out.

When I went in to have my cancerous left kidney removed in 2003, I was afraid they could remove the wrong kidney. They obviously didn't goof that, though my doctor did later tell me that they mistakenly nicked or cut into an important blood vessel and for a while I was in danger of bleeding out.

As for the Loyola U. Chicago mentioned above, it's interesting that a mere five-minute brisk walk from my place can put me onto its campus.