Should I EVER come out?

[p700granat]

Hi,
It's my first post here. I've been watching this board for a while and you guys are just wonderful. This question is probably very common, but I really want to ask here because I have no where else to ask.
Right now I'm 20, and there's only one friend of mine (classmate from 7th to 9th grade) who knows I'm gay. We are still very good friends, and I trust him completely, and I know that he would not out me. I was much braver then and during high school, and had the guts to look at hot classmates for extended period of time. Now I'm in one of the most liberal universities in the country but I am restricting myself to "proper behavior" much more than before. For example I'm attracted to a new friend of mine who I thought may be gay (of course more often it's just our wish ), but I've been keeping a distance from him so that he would never get suspicious. A few months ago an openly gay friend of mine asked me if I'm gay (he seem to have asked quite a few people), and I said "no but I'm fine with gay". He is a very nice person and I really feel guilty about not telling him the truth (feel free to be angry at me ), but I just haven't decided if I ever want to come out and/or have any romantic relationship with another man.
I'm a computer science student and I consider myself as a rather logical man, so below are a few options I have, and factors which are important to my decision. So far reasoning has been telling me not to come out or develop an initmate relationship, but often times especially when I'm alone, I feel quite painful and think if I should just go with my heart on this. You people are probably my best hope of getting some ideas and inspirations.
Options:
1. Be single, be abstinent and stay in the closet until it becomes my coffin. Jack off when feeling horny and go to my non-romantic friends when feeling lonely.
2. Similar to 1, but get married with a women (and become a selfish bastard). Maybe have an agreement with her that she can seek sex/relationship with anyone else, but I really don't know how that usually works out. Maybe with a lesbian in similar situation.
3. Keep acting straight to most of world, but allow secret and long term relationships.
4. Similar to 3, but out to a very close circle to friends so that I have someone to talk to if my romantic relationship goes onto bumps.
5. Be out and proud.
I may also keep myself in (1) until I found my Mr. Right, and then switch to 3/4/5.
Factors:
a. I am quite ambitious about my career and so far things has been going well on that. Given the current level of acceptance in the society, out or out by someone will likely compromise my career in some degree.
b. My parents are quite liberal on many issues, but not on this one. A few years ago my parents found a gay website on the browser history which I forgot to erase, and that was the most angry time they ever got. I told them that I just stumbled across it and curious about what gay people do. They seem to accepted my excuse at least on the face. Now they sometimes me ask if I have any gf yet and I have to lie every time.
c. There is a risk of losing friends and harder to find new ones once I'm out. I'll not elaborate on that because that's already discussed on many posts here.
d. It's easy to get hurt and hurt others in relationships. I never had one but from what I heard and my personal experience of separating from my secret crush in high school, I can imagine how bad that could be. And compare to a man and woman gay people seem to have much more unstable relationship.
e. The chances of STD especial HID/AIDS is higher. Even in a mostly honest and stable relationship, the chances that my partner (or myself) having fun with someone else and getting AIDS is probably higher than a married o/s couple.
f. If I'm out to a couple of people, as in the case of 2, 3 and 4, there is a considerable risk of being out to many others, and be out of my control at some point.
g. Being single for too long may be suspicious. So far my "acting straight" has not included actually dating girls. There have been a few times when a girl showed obvious interests on me but I just pretended to be ignorant to that. I don't know how "successful" I could be in acting straight.
h. My heart and my biological desire would like to veto all of above. I've been in varying degree of pain on this for quite a few years, and I don't want to be like that for the rest of my life. I desire love just like everyone else and it's so regretful if I would never enjoy one of most important and enjoyable thing in life, something people have died for.
i. It seems easier to get into relationship if I'm out, and it's perhaps a pre-requisite for an honest and healthy relationship.
j. It may be harder and harder to be liked by another gay as I get older and older. This is apparently more so among gay than man/woman.
k. People just like me are suffering because what of my lies, and the world is not going to be more open to us if we keep ourselves in the closet.

There's really nothing specific to me here, and I guess most closeted people face largely the same options and consideratoins. However, many closeted people do not have the experience as many of the members here do. So it would be great if you can share your experience, stories and ideas. Maybe some of the reasons I gave are just invalid, or there are important things I should have considered. For example has anyone had a great life-long relationship? How many unsucessful relationships have you had before finding a Mr. Right? Has being out hurt your career? How does it feel to be single and no longer young? How's family life if you married a woman? And honestly are happy about whatever you chose?

Thanks a lot for reading the whole thing. Your response could be very helpful to me and perhaps many other people.

 

[Smitho]

Hi and Welcome to JUB

Your post is very interesting and as you say very analytical, I have a friend (straight, but never mind) but who would have written something very similar if he was in your situation. The only thing I would like to point out, is that you have left out the happiness being in a good and loving relationship can bring. Waking up next to the man you love and who loves you is an amazing thing, and it is not without pain, he will hurt you sometimes and you him, but overall you both gain loads. It is a risk, but it is a risk well worth (in my opinion and others) taking.

You can live your life in the closet and other posters will probably post here saying just that, but you are missing out on the opportunity to find the thing hundreds of romantic movies every year are made about, ok you can have hook ups but thats not really the same thing. I just don't subscibe to the gay men are natually promiscuios and can't have loveing and stable relationships, and I think there are many contributers on JUB would would back up the point that they can and they do.

My advise would be to go back to your gay friend who asked you if you were gay, and admit to him you lied, say sorry and I am sure he will understand as he was once in the closet to, and ask him if he will take you out, and see some gay life. Ask him to keep it quiet and if anyone asks you can just be liberal minded and hanging out with a friend who is gay, and see what happens. At least experiment a little bit with being out the closet, and take it from there.

It is a liberating feeling being able to live your life as an open and free individual, and I hope very much you take that route. The others in my opinion just end in heartache.

Good luck

 

[luminum]

Sometimes it's comforting and safe to be analytical and to think out all your options (I do that, too), but here's what I've come to believe about this kind of stuff:

You can weigh all the options you want for all the reasons you can come up with, but for remainign abstinent your whole life and blocking yourself from going out and seeking meaningful relationships, you're deciding to deny yourself one of the best parts of life. And for what? A degree/career? You only have one life to live, and when you look back, will you be satisfied that you got yoru job and degree but never felt that meanignful kind of love with another person? Or will you be happy knowing that you experienced love and possibly still have that job and that degree?

Option 2 is a no go. Unelss the girl just wants security, she'll never marry you illingly. A girl still wants to be loved, and a fake marriage, even with all the on the side she wants, won't satisfy her. She might as well just not get married to you and marry someone else. And you'd force her to enter into your lie every time some party who thinks you're a couple comes to visit. That's no life to live for anyone. Marrying a girl who was oblivious is just wrong, and commits a grievance you could never hope to be forgiven for, IMO, because you basically used someone's love for your own gain.

HIV can be prevented by having safe sex. So make it a point in any of your sexual relationships or your relationships that become sexual, that you practice safe sex with your partner. While it's higher in gay men, HIV is everyone's problem now. Also, get informed about STDs so you can be prepared. Get familiar with being tested every six months just so you know and that it can be a topic of ease with another partner, so you can know what each other's status is and make the appropriate decisions.

It's hard, but not impossible, to date while being closeted. A lot of non-closeted guys will only put up with it for so long, because they left the closet to be free of the stress of hiding themselves. And after all, they only have one life to live.

For every person out there who thinks they'll be unloved as they get older, there's someone else thinking the same thing who would be looking for someone no matter what age they were.

I do enjoy promoting the benefits to community that being out and living proud and honestly cand o for the community, but this isn't about the community. It's about you and what you want. Forget about what it will mean to other people (both ways). If you want to live your life honestly and with reassurance in yourself, you do it, no matter what anyone else thinks. And if you can't do that right now, screw being a role model and just do what you need to do to get by. Coming out is about you, never about anyone else.
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Now, it's easy and smart to do risk analysis in all of life's problems, but one of the things about coming out is that it's about surprises. Maybe being a gay man in your industry won't affect where you're trying to get to. Maybe no one you come out to will care, or you'll find that some people disagreeing doesn't actually mean as much to you as you thought. Life is about risks, life isn't about risk analysis and living a fulfilling life is about those gaps where you were surprised or took a leap of faith from those safe times.

Keep talking, and we'll keep responding as you go down this path of self discovery.

 

[RicanDAB]

Lots of good advice given to you already .. and I wanted to add my part.

I am in the option #4 of your list above, and ironically have been through 1-3 already (except that I was engaged once but never married) - but will I ever get to #5? - not sure, and then again when I was at #1 I NEVER envisoned I would be at a higher level than that, and so on. It sounds as if your options list is perhaps the natural progressions of most gay men who start off in the closet. I remember a day when I was as deep in the closet as you can get ... and happy with it!

But you know what? That gets old eventually and then you get to see how so many people are happy to be out and still living normal lives. At this point in my life, I have seen many of my straight friends marry and have children and here I am (in their eyes) still single and childless, yet no mention or discussion has been made about me getting married or even dating. But little do they realize that I have had an active dating and relationship gay life behind the scenes for years. I suspect they probably know what the case is already now that I am in my late 30s. It has pained me to not be able to share my loves with them, as part of me desperately wants to let them know that HEY my love life is alive and well too!

Many on JUB have already read elsewhere about my on how I want to come out to 2 friends. This is my first step in coming out to the rest of the world as gay, because all of the friends that presently know that I am gay are gay themselves or have established overt gay-friendliness. Once I tell these two straight friends (who I jokingly call my "test rats"), I will gain more confidence to just treat my gay being as nothing more than the fact that I also have brown hair.

Plainly stated p700granat, you will be SURPRISED how different you will start to think 10 years from today about "the closet". You may or may not still be closeted then but I guarantee you that you will not be thinking the same way about the closet then as you do now. And no one who stays in the closet is ever totally happy - I don't care what anyone says!

We'll be here to support you the whole way! JUB and all these guys' experiences here have been a turning point for me and perhaps you will find the same satisfaction too!

 

[JackFTwist]

I've been in varying degree of pain on this for quite a few years, and I don't want to be like that for the rest of my life.

there is your answer

what is being out - being a flaming queen, wearing a t-shirt that says I'm gay? Or is it just being honest with yourself and living that way, with integrity, with everyone? I am totally out and you know what, it never comes up in anything, I live my life and do the things I like to do and that is that. It's not like you go up to people and say, "hey, I'm Joe and I'm a cocksucker!" Being out is like not being out, except a whole lot happier and healthier.

 

[Soilwork]

I want you to print out that overly-analytical list of yours, crumble it up, drop it in the toilet and flush it down.

Logic may work for your computer programs, but I'm afriad you're a human being, and that's just not going to do.

Staying in the closet until it's your coffin helps no one.

Marrying a woman is a ridiculous plan. If you don't bellieve me, ask the countless guys here who have wasted their lives.

Sorry, but no amount of living for others is going to give you a life of your own.

you don't hvae to come out NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW, but you know that it's going to have to happen eventually, right?

I mean, what's the point of having a pulse if you're not going to live?

 

[JackFTwist]

Marrying a woman is a ridiculous plan. If you don't bellieve me, ask the countless guys here who have wasted their lives.

great post

and P700 as for the marriage to a woman thing, that is simply immoral. Asking a person to love and trust you when lying and deceiving them with no intention of having integrity within the relationship is about as low a thing to do to another person as possible.

Other than that, it is a miserable unhappy life.

 

[newkidondagayblock]

I second Soilwork's advice. Do not be over analytical of your life. Just be happy leading your own life.

Its funny I should say that coz I think the things in my life exactly as you have written. I know its not good to be over analytical myself, thats why listen to me.

You are still 20 so you have time to realize your self.

Do not do something OR NOT do something because you are gay. You will only end up feeling guilty no matter what..

Do stuff on the spur of the moment...

Hey you know what maybe I should follow my own advice first.

Take care bye.

 

[jamie_01930]

You should be true to yourself . asap.
nothing worse than to play a role that you don't like or that is not who you are

worst comes to worst.

follow your heart

 

[hermanding]

If you really want to be happy, be YOU -and to be the BEST you, that can only happen in the sunlight of being out and being proud of yourself. i was in data processing ((senior systems analyst with a team of 5 underneath me) and OUT and continued up the ladder. would i have stifled myself in order to have had the job - no, no way. gays have more trouble in the society than straights, for sure - we don't get those rewards bestowed by the society. But, at least, those of us who are OUT are being true to ourselves and others regarding our sexuality and are not having to remember what we said to whom and wondering and worrying. I really hope you will be the wonderful person you are for everyone to know. stay with us and we'll all support you right down the line. ding

 

[p700granat]

Thanks for the responses. I should be preparing for a final exam tomorrow instead of talking about this, but I can't help when one of these occasional "emotion attacks" strikes me.

The lastest one started after my best friend in high school chatted with me online a few days ago. I had a major crush on him, and he often flirted with me, making body contacts with me, putting his arm/leg on me on camping trips which drived me nuts. But I know he likes a girl in class and he now has a girl friend in college. Anyway at some point during our chat he said, "you seemed to have problems with girls in high school. Is that improved now?" and suggested me to take initiatives instead "waiting for them to come to you". I thanked him for his advice, told him I'll try to "take initiatives" and changed the topic. I almost cried after the chat, and I have been keep thinking about my emotional side of life these few days which led me to start that post.

To respond a few of you, I really don't want to get married with a woman, and I completely agree that neither I or the girl would be happy about such an arrangement. So that's not something I would consider now.

Waking up next to the man you love and who loves you is an amazing thing

I'm sure that is, and I want that no less any other human being. But how often do one find such a man, and how long does it last? I agree with Smitho that gay men are not naturally promiscuous, but the society we live in today seem to have made gay relationships much less stable and short-lived than straight ones. At least that's my impression. I don't think I would be happy with a couple of short-lived relationship, which may be more painful that I'm now. It will be a huge encouragement to me if someone can share his experience of a long, happy relationship.

I remember a day when I was as deep in the closet as you can get ... and happy with it!

That's how I feel when I "get over" those "emotion attack" as I call them. I would think that if I'm not happy with this side of my life, there are always other things that can make me happy. And sure it's not great but so far I've able to live with it. Sometimes I think about the Catholic priests and Buddhist monks. If they can live happy lives while being strictly abstinent, why can't I?

Maybe being a gay man in your industry won't affect where you're trying to get to.

That's probably true in computer science/software. But I don't want to limit myself to it. Public office is something I've been considering for the second half my life, and although this may or may not happen, I don't want to limit my career options just because of an emotional impulse. But maybe I'm just exaggerating the risk here, so I'd love to hear other people's story.

what is being out - being a flaming queen, wearing a t-shirt that says I'm gay? Or is it just being honest with yourself and living that way, with integrity, with everyone?

I'm sure I'll have pretty much the same life style if I get out the closet. I won't be at all interested in being a "flaming queen" or things like that, and I won't tell anyone about my interest in man unless they need to know. But as one recent post pointed out it seems many people just like to label you as gay and make a big deal out of it, even though you are exactly the same person you were yesterday.

Also I have no problem with the fact that I'm gay. I realized that many years ago and accepted the fact quite easily. I have no shame or guilt what so ever for that. What I don't know is how I am going to deal with it.

Thanks again for the response and support. I'm not eager to make any decision soon but if I make a decision in future I hope that would a well deliberated one. I'll check back whenever I have time. Out.

 

[JackFTwist]

Thanks for the words - good luck on finals and you know you know you have a ton of friends here

as for waking up next to the one you love - nothing in life is guarenteed - that is a risk of living - I had that and lost that and that was a good thing in the end but it was painful - there are times I yearn for that again - but like you I won't sell out to get someone, anyone, I can wait until it is right, until he is the right one

don't let future political considerations sway anything - there are gay elected officials - and where I used to live, a very conservative small town/rural Republican county, where everyone knew who I lived with (neither one of us was low profile, to say the least), a couple of elections ago, I ran for county clerk and got the second highest vote total ever for a Democrat - who knows what might have happened had I actually worked at campaigning -

you have a lot going for you, dwell on that and kick ass on the finals

 

[luminum]

I'm sure that is, and I want that no less any other human being. But how often do one find such a man, and how long does it last? I agree with Smitho that gay men are not naturally promiscuous, but the society we live in today seem to have made gay relationships much less stable and short-lived than straight ones. At least that's my impression. I don't think I would be happy with a couple of short-lived relationship, which may be more painful that I'm now. It will be a huge encouragement to me if someone can share his experience of a long, happy relationship.

If you're afraid to seek out relationships because you might get hurt by short lived ones, then you're never going to have the possibility of finding the one that lasts forever. If you don't look, then you can't find anything. Straight people go through tons of relationships, too. very rarely do they settle down permanenetly with the first person they meet. Relationships take time and energy and commitment for them to work. Some of them don't work out, but others do. You're not dating to be ina couple short-lived relationships, you're in a couple short-lived relationships because you're in the process of finding the right one.

That's how I feel when I "get over" those "emotion attack" as I call them. I would think that if I'm not happy with this side of my life, there are always other things that can make me happy. And sure it's not great but so far I've able to live with it. Sometimes I think about the Catholic priests and Buddhist monks. If they can live happy lives while being strictly abstinent, why can't I?

Because ideally, Buddhists and Priests are becoming monks and priests with the idea to attain enlightenment or serve God, of which celibacy is a side requirement. What you're doing is weighing unknown risk and fear to a situation that does not require that you not be gay. It may appear like it's better to not be out to do what you want, but it isn't necessary. That's what separates the two. They driven by a cause for something else that demands celibacy and repression of all those sexual impulses. What you're doing is trying to do something and worried that being out and gay (but not being straight, interestingly enough) will mess it up when both can and should be integrated parts of your life as a whole.

 

[balls2thawall]

i think you should just do what you think is right for now, take one day at a time. theres always someone in the road for all of us if you give that someone a chance. one day im sure your going to trip over him and, fall in love and everything in your head is gonna clear up and your gonna go, why can't i live happily with my man? from there everything will smell like that fresh spring smell---like the one i get a lot of allergies from = p
p.s. just dont wait to long it sucks to be alone!

 

[spreadeagle]

You can make no real progress on this issue until you resolve your relationship with your parents. I suspect there is a strong cultural imperative at work here. Your best plan at the moment is to focus on the career, gain financial independence, and then take a job in another city where nobody knows you.

 

[tallguy297]

Hey p700granat,

Wow ...you've surely given this some thought! No stone left unturned! Thats a pretty impressive talent...hate to be debating you!!!

Mate...to me this comes down to your happiness. Your ability to love, to give, to care. To be all you can be and to realise your goals and your potential. You've
given some really strong examples of your morals and values in your posts...those are things that you should be proud of...and already they are guiding you in this....you hate the guilt from lies and the deception that it causes.

You sure dont sound like someone who wants to hurt or lie or cheat. So right there and then a lot of your options just disappear. Dont even consider them...they are not you. They are the values you want to live by. You're better than that and you dont deserve the guilt of carrying that around with you.

Your concerns about being hurt, getting old, partners and relationships are the same for all relationships mate...hetero or gay. Everybody fears not finding the right partner, making mistakes or committing to relationships better left on the shelf. These definatley arnt the sole rights of the gay community...and neither are the issues with STD's. Dont let yourself be sucked into the generalizations of mistruths. You will still be you. You will still be the person you are today...and if you chose monogamy and respect and love then thats a reflection on you. If you chose stability and happiness and joy, then those are your values and attributes....those are things for you to love and gain from.

You have gifts and talents that deserve to be shared with the world. You have values that shine from you, and those things deserve to be exploited to the full by a happy content and confident guy. Your ability to be open and honest with us shows how much you value those things...live your entire life the same way mate. Let yourself be true without the guilt from lies.

Yo dont have to rush this, like you said. But your options are really this...lie and carry the burden of that guilt...or be open honest trusting and respectful. And when the people who love you and care for you see the real you, and accept the real you, then you can be all you should be. Most of all you'll be free..and happy. Thats something you deserve.

 

[drhladnjak]

Being a very analytical person myself (former Computer Science student now a software developer), I played similar logical games when I was younger and closeted. Looking back, I realized I spent too much time analyzing all the details and not enough time standing back and seeing the big picture.

The fact of the matter is that you'll never reach your full potential for happiness living in the closet. You've got to live your life for you and be yourself. Trust me, it's not worth all the overanalytical worry. Some day when you're out, you'll look back and wonder why you were so hung up on all of this. I know I do.

As for the computer biz... It's really one of the more accepting ones out there. Where I work now, I don't have any trouble being out and there are plenty of companies like mine in that regard.

 

[drhladnjak]

One more thing I forgot to write above...

You can't live your life for your career forever. I did that for years and it was just an all too easy way to avoid dealing with my personal issues concerning sexuality.

 

[p700granat]

Done with finals! I'll be heading home tomorrow, and won't be seeing you people for at least a week. I'll be missing JUB, as it feels so good to talk about these things so frankly. Heart to hear in some sense. And there are a quite few great points you made, things that I somehow ignored but are very important now as I think about it, for example, how being in the closet prevented me from being really close to anyone, friends or others. I was actually writing some responses for your posts just now but I decided to wait and give some more time to think. The long bus ride and then the long flight will be perfect for that. And I'm looking forward to share my thoughts with you later. Mean while, thank you so much and happy holidays!

 

[CoolBlue71]

p700granat,

You lost me halfway through your post. And there's one reason why: It's not a realistic progression. Obviously, people handle themselves however they will. But to have a large menu of options -- it reads like a game plan involving strategy. "I could do this. I could do that. I can consider this. I can consider that. I may wanna do this. I may wanna do that. I should do this. I should do that. I will do this. I will do that."

You're 20 years old and only two years into adult life. The number-one concern for you should be a combination of your survival and quality of life. That's everybody's concern, no matter the age. There is no magic cure. There is no perfect thing.

I welcome you to this board.