Should the voting age be lowered?

[MercuryJones]

Consistency is important, IMO.

The legal age for contractual consent, military draft, alcohol consumption and voting should all be the same, as far as I'm concerned. And 18 seems about right.

 

[PrivateTimm]

Consistency is important, IMO.

The legal age for contractual consent, military draft, alcohol consumption and voting should all be the same, as far as I'm concerned. And 18 seems about right.

I agree.... just think maybe back to 21 for voting would be just fine, the inconsistency on the drinking age makes no sense...

 

[SuperPsyze]

While I find it to be quite an interesting argument, the truth is that kids of all ages are technically making money. As sort of a peripheral example, those who work for modeling agencies for instance. Unfortunately, if we use that trend, than we'd have to let children as young as 6 months vote, and that's a bit ridiculous.

Even without the employment model, we all have to pay sales tax regardless of age.

Any sort of status-based condition would also be bad. If you had to own or rent a home in order to vote, then those without have no representation. What if you're unable to own/rent a home BECAUSE of the way the laws are? There's no way to break out of that. People who are homeless would have no say in the political system.

It still rubs me the wrong way that the judicial system has that double standards on minors, though. Lots of kids 15-17 year old are apparently mature enough to be convicted as adults, but other 15-17 year olds aren't mature enough to vote. Heck, kids as young as 10 have been put on the sex offender list for taking baths with their cousins. Not sure what to do with that, but it still rubs me the wrong way.

I still like the 18-year-old milestone, though. No other conditions. It's a convenient number. The kids are legal adults at that point, about to graduate high school, possibly moving out of their parent's homes, heading to work or college, etc etc. As far as "Adult" things they can do, I think 18 is a good number. Along with that, I do agree with lowering the drinking age to 18, but I might also like to raise the driving age to 18 (though I'm sure I'd get a lot of opposition to that, even from myself).

 

[MercuryJones]

It still rubs me the wrong way that the judicial system has that double standards on minors, though. Lots of kids 15-17 year old are apparently mature enough to be convicted as adults, but other 15-17 year olds aren't mature enough to vote. Heck, kids as young as 10 have been put on the sex offender list for taking baths with their cousins. Not sure what to do with that, but it still rubs me the wrong way.

If it were up to me no one would be tried as an adult for crimes committed before the age of 18. It defies the whole point of the age of consent. If you aren't old enough to form consent legally for the purpose of voting or contractual obligation or voting, you shouldn't be treated as an adult for other purposes either.

 

[PrivateTimm]

technically, isn't the federal drinking age set at 18 and left up to the individual states to decide if they want to raise it higher?

There is no federal drinking age, it is all decided by the states, but the feds threatened to withhold federal highway funds from any state that didn't have a 21 year old drinking age despite the fact that federal highway funds come from the states to begin with.

 

[PrivateTimm]

If it were up to me no one would be tried as an adult for crimes committed before the age of 18. It defies the whole point of the age of consent. If you aren't old enough to form consent legally for the purpose of voting or contractual obligation or voting, you shouldn't be treated as an adult for other purposes either.

My favorite piece of work was the FL prosecutor who was simultaneously trying two boys as adults for the murder of the their father in one court room while portraying them as the innocent victims of child molestation in another while trying the child molester for the murder of the father with a different theory of the murder in a third. It was enough to make your head spin......

 

[construct]

I don't think the voting age should be lowered. There is nothing wrong with different privileges or rights taking full effect at different ages. After all children mature gradually whether or not they're smart. Their brains aren't fully formed until they're about twenty-one, but that should be no reason not to give them some "adult" responsibilities sooner. Most of them kick in at eighteen. I would not tie voting to any other right, privilege, or responsibility. They should be voting for school president, not President of the United States.

 

[BeMused]

18 is fine with me

 

[LonelyInVenice]

Here's an interesting chart that our friend Lostlover shared in another thread the other day:

Note the drop in percentage of young voter turnout between 1972 and 1976. . . and it has stayed low since that time. Why the change at that point in time? 1974 (my senior year in high school) was the first year that 18 year olds were allowed to vote. Prior to that time the age was 21. Everybody in my class at high school got registered. I was allowed to vote in the primary that year at the age of 17, because I was going to turn 18 in time for the general (midterm) election. All the Seniors puffed their chests, proud to be considered old enough and wise enough to be entrusted with our government's future. But you know what? That November very few of my fellow 18, 19 and 20 year olds bothered to vote. I was raised to believe it was my civic duty, but my peers apparently didn't feel so inclined.

Anyway, long story made longer: 18 is plenty young enough. Sure, we can anecdotally claim that we know lots of 16 year olds who are really sharp and mature, but the vast majority won't bother to vote anyway, so why bother watering down the statistics even further?

Keep the voting age at 18 and start dragging the punks to the polls with you! The 44% of 18 - 24 year olds who bothered to turn out in 2008 are to be commended. . . the rest are pathetic.

Edit: One other thing. Below the age of 18 most kids are young enough to still be intimidated or coerced by their parents or other authority figures. In many cases, a younger voting age could be used by unethical parents or others as a sort of "extra vote." Let 'em get to the age of majority before letting 'em vote.

 

[NotThatCreative]

I don't have a stance on this issue. The day there's a major movement on the part of 16 and 17 year olds to get the right to vote (which is what racial minorities and women did) then I'll seriously weigh the pros and cons. Until then, more important things to worry about. As far as taxation without representation, opinterph took care of that well I thought. Plus, can you imagine if we gave 16 and 17 year olds the right to vote on the basis of taxation without representation before we gave DC statehood?

I think that a suggestion would be a minimum IQ to be allowed to vote.

Something about forbidding those who suffer from mental retardation from voting sounds wrong. And if we had that scheme, it would be so.

Considering that many16 year olds haven't even taken a government class yet in high school, of course they aren't ready to vote.

If that's your standard then do you think high school dropouts shouldn't be allowed to vote? A lot of them don't get government class either as that's a senior class in many school districts.

And every single one of them will get that money back when they file a tax return. Unless they're making some outrageous amount, all of them will be below the threshold of having to actually pay anything to the government that they won't get back.

They get a little over half of it back. Not all though.

Consistency is important, IMO.

The legal age for contractual consent, military draft, alcohol consumption and voting should all be the same, as far as I'm concerned. And 18 seems about right.

Age of consent in many states is 16 or 17. Do you support raising that to 18 uniformly? Why should we allow people to drive if we don't think they have the mental capacity to vote? Cars traveling on the highway are practically weapons.

I'd be more in favor of restricting voting to people who pay property taxes or rent.

We started with a requirement like that. And it is widely viewed now as overly restrictive. Why should we regress in our republic?

 

[CumAlong]

Below the age of is useless to vote imo. 18 is about the time people start becoming adults. They move on to college, or start a job in the 'real world'. This is usually the point where people stop feeding from their parents spoon of knowledge, and think for themselves. Below 18, people will likely vote the same way as their parents, and whats the point of that?

And here is where I might get a little hate....It is the same reason the right for women to vote was useless for a while. Women weren't politically educated, and if they were, it was by their husbands or dominant male figure in their life. Women voted the same as their husband, or father for a long time. I'm not saying the right for women to vote is useless, just that it took time for women to finally vote for themselves. The same is true for teens younger than 18.

 

[Kulindahr]

Consistency is important, IMO.

The legal age for contractual consent, military draft, alcohol consumption and voting should all be the same, as far as I'm concerned. And 18 seems about right.

Yes.

I'd only lower it if we lower the age of sexual consent, joining the military, owning a handgun, getting married, and some others, at the same time.

Below the age of is useless to vote imo. 18 is about the time people start becoming adults. They move on to college, or start a job in the 'real world'. This is usually the point where people stop feeding from their parents spoon of knowledge, and think for themselves. Below 18, people will likely vote the same way as their parents, and whats the point of that?

And here is where I might get a little hate....It is the same reason the right for women to vote was useless for a while. Women weren't politically educated, and if they were, it was by their husbands or dominant male figure in their life. Women voted the same as their husband, or father for a long time. I'm not saying the right for women to vote is useless, just that it took time for women to finally vote for themselves. The same is true for teens younger than 18.

Excellent point!

 

[MercuryJones]

Age of consent in many states is 16 or 17. Do you support raising that to 18 uniformly? Why should we allow people to drive if we don't think they have the mental capacity to vote? Cars traveling on the highway are practically weapons.

I do not, though it's a fair question. I don't consider choosing to take part in sexual activity to be on the same order as forming a binding contract. Same applies to driving.

In other words: While not every choice may require the same ability to form consent, I believe that once you've reached the age at which you can vote, go to war, form a binding contract and so, holding out this odd tidbit is problematic.

 

[NotThatCreative]

^That's fair.

 

[swerve]

What an interesting thread...

I actually LIKE the idea of 16 yo's voting...

I suspect if one becomes politically active at 16 -- they'll REMAIN that way...

What a COOL idea...

 

[Kulindahr]

What an interesting thread...

I actually LIKE the idea of 16 yo's voting...

I suspect if one becomes politically active at 16 -- they'll REMAIN that way...

What a COOL idea...

From the kids that age I know, they couldn't be bothered to vote unless they could text their ballot.

 

[swerve]

From the kids that age I know, they couldn't be bothered to vote unless they could text their ballot.

Yeah -- but for the ones that DID vote -- it might help balance out the fact that we let prehistoric creatures vote until they die -- leaving us with archaic laws that make little sense to the younger generation...

Maybe we could cut the voting age off at the point someone RETIRES and joins Social Security???

Fun conversation...

 

[LonelyInVenice]

Yeah -- but for the ones that DID vote -- it might help balance out the fact that we let prehistoric creatures vote until they die -- leaving us with archaic laws that make little sense to the younger generation...

Maybe we could cut the voting age off at the point someone RETIRES and joins Social Security???

Fun conversation...

Don't you find your artificial cutoff point even more arbitrary than the lower end of the age limit? Retirement age? Really? You mean I've only got, like, 12 years of intellectual competence left in me?

Pure silliness.

 

[swerve]

^No -- not PURE silliness...

ONCE you're being PAID out of the public coffers (which SS has now become) -- you can NO LONGER DICTATE their policies through your vote...

Granted -- its not completely thought out yet...

 

[LonelyInVenice]

^No -- not PURE silliness...

ONCE you're being PAID out of the public coffers (which SS has now become) -- you can NO LONGER DICTATE their policies through your vote...

Granted -- its not completely thought out yet...

Social Security is somehow a handout?

I put that money into Social Security, it's mine, and I expect it back without some silly-assed ageist society taking away my right to vote.

". . .mot completely thought out. . ."? Or "No thinking at all"? It's a moronic statement.