So now... Emergency Rooms...

[NW007]

^^^

That's what reform is for. Medicare was reformed too, many times.

Why? Because no legislation has unintended consequences.

Progress cannot be sacrificed for exaggerated fears.

It is ironic in that what constitutes "Progress" is at the center of this entire health care debate. Each side has their own definition as to what is "Progress"

 

[Knucklehead]

I am not criticising, nor denying your rights to this coverage but you are certainly aware that your examinations and treatment cost considerably more than $57.

So who paid the difference? That is the problem with unversal health care; if the patient doesn't pay the full costs then where does the money to pay for it come from?

Whilst I fervently believe that all citizens have the right to health care I also believe that people should provide for themselves rather than count on their governments to hand feed them throughout their lives.

But I don't have a solution apart from accepting passively the financial burden unversal health care causes; with all the associated waste, inefficiency and abuse.

I guess the good citizens of the United States pay the difference with their tax dollars that aren't used to kill poor people in foreign countries.The 30% of my paycheck that I pay in taxes must pay some of it too.

As for me counting on the government to hand feed me.They don't hand feed me, but thanks anyways.That healthcare was part of the deal when I signed up to give 3 full years of my life to the service of the United States Army and another year in the reserves. I did my part, they do theirs. The Veterans Administration Medical Centers exist soley to provide healthcare to veterans.I am veteran.That's how that works.Every able bodied citizen in the U.S. had the opportunity to take advantage of the same benefits every veteran enjoys.

Some veterans pay more, some pay less or nothing at all.What you pay is based upon declared income.However, if you suffer from combat related illnesses or injuries, your healthcare is absolutely free for the rest of your life. As is the case for my brother in law who suffers from the effects of his exposure to agent orange while he served in Vietnam.In addition to a monthly benefit check, he pays nothing for his medical care and he, like me, is very happy with the quality of healthcare they provide.

As for the ''waste '' of universal healthcare,I believe the V.A. runs one of the most efficient operations in the country.The for profit healthcare providers could learn a lot from them.Just on prescription drugs alone,the V.A.'s huge buying power allows them to get the cheapest price possible on prescription drugs.They are able to pass this savings on to the millions of veterans they serve.

If everyone had access to a V.A. type run outfit, the overall health of the country would have to improve.If you have a regular physician who can catch things early,it saves money when they don't turn into something major.Instead of paying ever rising insurance premiums,people could pay a small portion of their taxes to go towards affordable,good quality healthare.If that is the goverment tit feeding us,then as one Jubber here says, ''show me your titties..''

 

[NW007]

It's sure as hell not neglecting to stop 45,000 Americans from dying of a lack of health care every year.

How many American's die every year who have health care.? Let's not get into a pissing match as to casuses of death. Many more than that die on our highways every year, yet I don't hear an outcry from the press or the Democrats on that issue.

 

[NW007]

False analogy.

One is a preventable cause, the other isn't unless you ban driving.

Try again please.

flawed logic on your part, for two reasons. Many ways to reduce highway deaths that have nothing to do with banning driving. My point was that it wasn't a hot social issue button with any political party nor the media.

Secondly, you have no conclusive evidence that the health legislation will do anything to reduce your 45,000 death number. AT this point the $ penalities for those who don't have insurance are not high enough to sway people not to take the gamble of not buying insurance until just before they need it. Plus you have the people who won't be qualified to be covered under even this new plan. So you can't say with certainty that your quoted number will go down.

So back to my original point, let's not be throwing emotional numbers around dealing with how or why these people die.

 

[Knucklehead]

How many American's die every year who have health care.? Let's not get into a pissing match as to casuses of death. Many more than that die on our highways every year, yet I don't hear an outcry from the press or the Democrats on that issue.

I drove a semi truck for ten years.Truck drivers deal with countless laws to ensure their equipment is safe enough to be on the road,and that they are rested enough to operate it.

The various government agenices are constantly enacting new measures to lower the body count on our nations highways.That's why you are ticketed if you don't wear a seatbelt.Sobriety checkpoints are common around holidays,and you are arrested if you drive drunk.Motorists are ticketed for speeding,talking,texting or otherwise distracted while driving.

These measure are a result of the outcries of people who want to avoid needless death and they do work.Still,they wont save everyone.Think of how many more people would still be dying each year if everyone still had ''one for the road''as they did when I was younger.

The same thing for healthcare.Why not try to save the lives of people who have limited access to healthcare?Or is it that those 45,000 people deserve to die? Nevermind, you're a right winger.I already know the answer.

 

[NW007]

^How about this idea to help reduce your 45,000 deaths per year due to no health insurance. Since driving is a privilege and not a right; require that before a driver's license / and vehicle registration is issued the individual would not only have to have property casualty insurance as is currently required, but also make it a requirement to have health insurance. That would go toward helping answer all of our arguments.

Furthermore, since we seem to make it habit of issuing driver's licenses to illegals, we would help solve the issue of them not having insurance coverage with this requirement.

If an individual can afford to have a motor vehicle they certainly can afford to have health insurance

Now there is "progress" for you

 

[NW007]

My?

As if the annual death of 45,000 Americans because of a lack of health care coverage is not a problem?

I know there isn't such a thing as compassionate conservatism, but could at least try and hide it.

You are completely missing my point. More people die on the highways needlessly per year than those who die because of health insurance issues. Yet you dismiss that with staistical coldness and express no compassion . Just like the media and politicians don't pick up on it either becasue it doesn't serve them any political points. Its a bigger issue yet it is not politically popular. So don't talk about compassion

So don't even go there about compassionate conservatiosm etc. cause you are far off course.

That was the point I made many posts ago. Stop throwing death numbers around to justify your arguments. Furthermore, I made an original statement that you aren't going to see as dramatic changes as you anticipate for quite some time because it will take many years for this HCR to be phased in.

 

[hotatlboi]

Finest Health Care system in the world my ass.

You have to qualify that.

The US does indeed have the best health care...for the wealthy.

If you need some kind of high tech cutting edge treatment that costs $$$$ we've got that covered.

But if we're talking about the general level of health over the broadest segment of the population, no we're definitely not #1. That's what this reform is attended to address.