Socialism is Good; Socialism is pro-life; Socialism is pro-People, pro-Planet

[Telstra]

To see how much better socialism works than capitalism, we have only to look at Venezuela, which is transforming from a (mostly) free market capitalist society into a socialist one.

To be sure, I bet a lot of you think Chavez is a hero who is empowering his people by giving them land.

Watch that space for further developments, we shall soon see how that works out.

Or, look to China, which is transforming from a communist/socialist society into a capitalist one, or Poland, or Russia. All of them have lots of socialist elements in place but they realized that capitalism is the engine that allows the passenger of socialism his free ride. To the extent that they have been able to adopt capitalism, their economies have thrived.

Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong, and Dubai...all super capitalist, all thriving. Even China was smart enough to leave Hong Kong's capitalist economy alone.

And seriously, Paris over Santa Barbara? I've been to both places too...whens the last time there were massive riots in Santa Barbara?

I believe in a safety net for people.

How about France, Germany, UK, New Zealand and Australia, they are a bit of socialist mix with capitalist.

Middle ground is best i think.

 

[RestlessDevil]

http://sv.no/Language/English

Read this, right-wingers.

 

[RestlessDevil]

This ought to get you conservatives' panties in a twist - private schools are forbidden here.

 

[JB3]

Now, you made both statements. Which one are you disavowing this time?

The key word in the first quote is 'all' Alfie.

Nowhere did I say that everyone on welfare are lazy bums that could work and choose not to. I made no reference to the quantity of those that do or do not. Its a subtle distinction, but its there.

Reading comprehension is your friend.

 

[JB3]

Let's see, Facts don't lie unless they're skewed to make your point.

Define "socialism:

http://www.answers.com/topic/socialist-state

The state you live in, California, unemployment rate is 14.7%

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...nia-hits-70-year-high/articleshow/5030890.cms

The evil socialist nation-state of France: 9.4% (you do know the difference between a nation, a state and a nation-state, don't you?)

Aks any right wing Republican if they think Canada, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, The Netherlands and Belgium are socialist, and what do you think they'll tell you?

And given a choice to walk down the streets of Santa Barbara or Paris at night as far as safety goes, I'll take Paris.

Ah, but France itself is divided into 22 regions (26 if you count overseas territory), each of which is closer to a 'state' than the whole of France. Each has its own administrator (equivalent to a governor) and local assembly.

Like the US, you'll be able to find pockets which have far greater unemployment than the national French average. Those are the numbers to use, not the national French average.

 

[JB3]

Ah, no. You said "The people on welfare." Not "some people," you said "the people." Nice try, but you really need to step up your game.

Who's projecting now?

I made no reference to quantity in my post. If you see fit to attach your own biased view to my post if it makes you feel better about yourself, then go right ahead. But don't put words in my mouth that I didn't post.

 

[TX-Beau]

Yeah, you did make a blanket statement with no mitigation.

Don't get mad at people who point this out.

 

[TX-Beau]

RestlessDevil, it must be realized that a whole lot of Americans have been brainwashed to an extent that you don't understand. I don't think simple facts would convince Lurchinurchin.

A good friend of mine – who’s half Greek and half Russian –AND I’M NOT SAYING I AGREE WITH THIS (just trying to head off all the reactionary bullshit) thinks that the underlying cause for the implacable, irrational, uncompromising (and not in a good way), adherence to the neo-con philosophy in some Americans; has it’s roots in the attempt to halt the world in a place the U.S. dominates.

I don't know if all you "Foreigners" really understand the public religion that we in the U.S. call the "American Dream." It has it's points, but it also has it's drawbacks. Much like worship of Caesar two thousand years ago, if you don't play, you're a traitor.

 

[palemale]

But liberal and socialists are about the same - they just can't handle the concept and effective practice of free-market capitalism!! Throughout history it is proven time and time again that Capitalism works. It got us where we are today and allowed the development of the computer you are using. It enabled commerce, marketing, and a lot of other things Socialism cannot claim ...

Ah yes, the fetish of the free-market. Lurch, can you name a single, successful country in history that practiced complete free-market capitalism that did not enact some socialist policies to mitigate the harsh effects of capitalism? The answer will surely be no, because no such system could survive.

 

[Harke the Boeotarch]

Obama is a right-wing politician by our standards.

Never mind, Devil, some people here will never get it.

Throughout history it is proven time and time again that Capitalism works.

Capitalism didn't exist "througout history" it's merely the successor to mercantilism, which in turn succeeded the Medieval systems of fuedalism/the guildsystem etc.
Usury was forbidden by Christianity and Islam and limited by Judaism and as a consequence people have kept to that for a very long time.

 

[JB3]

Yeah, you did make a blanket statement with no mitigation.

Don't get mad at people who point this out.

He is claiming that I stated that all people on welfare are freeloaders that choose not to work. That is not a statement that I made. I referenced no quantity in my post, and subsequently clarified.

It is not my problem if either you or he have no reading comprehension or critical thinking skills.

 

[TX-Beau]

He is claiming that I stated that all people on welfare are freeloaders that choose not to work. That is not a statement that I made. I referenced no quantity in my post, and subsequently clarified.

It is not my problem if either you or he have no reading comprehension or critical thinking skills.

This is just intellectually dishonest. We know what you meant, you know what you meant.

You tossed out some reactionary generalizations and it didn't even occur to you to qualify until someone else hit you with it.

 

[playwithmemonkey]

http://www.indexmundi.com/norway/unemployment_rate.html

It hasn't risen much since 2008 - it's about 2,7-2,9 now.

Do those figures include those on so called public assistance or disability? From what I understand, Norway and Sweden have fairly lax standards for getting on disability programs.

Also I don't believe that it is fair to compare socialism in Scandinavia to what socialism would be like here in America. The Us has approximately 60 times as many people as Norway. The Scandinavian countries have an advantage being relatively small with large amounts of oil revenue to fund the social programs. The US economy is very much based heavily on consumer spending and industry.

 

[JB3]

This is just intellectually dishonest. We know what you meant, you know what you meant.

You tossed out some reactionary generalizations and it didn't even occur to you to qualify until someone else hit you with it.

No, actually. I was not referencing any specific number. Just because you would like to think so does not make it true. The fact is, I qualified it. And that's the end of it.

 

[TX-Beau]

No, actually. I was not referencing any specific number. Just because you would like to think so does not make it true. The fact is, I qualified it. And that's the end of it.

Yeah, this is firmly in the whatever category. If you don't want people to jump on you about this, don't make reactionary generalizations. And that is the end of it.

 

[Kulindahr]

The first point of socialism is not to distribute the wealth earned by the people, but the means that make the production of this wealth possible in the first place. (Notably land).

There is actually a libertarian solution to this: have all the land literally owned by a corporation in which each person gets one share. The land is leased to those who use it; half the money (or some such portion) goes to the government to support infrastructure, and half goes back to the people, divided equally, as their dividend in the corporation.

Care to explain how unregulated capitalism didn't cause the mess we are in?

Simple: we haven't had "unregulated capitalism" since before Teddy Roosevelt.

What got us into the current mess was sloppily-regulated capitalism.

This ought to get you conservatives' panties in a twist - private schools are forbidden here.

There's tyranny for you: when a parent can't choose where to have his child educated, then the child is the property of the state.

I made no reference to quantity in my post. If you see fit to attach your own biased view to my post if it makes you feel better about yourself, then go right ahead. But don't put words in my mouth that I didn't post.

Droid, I went through this is a thread about Muslims some time back.

Grammatically, you're correct.
In terms of usage, you weren't: in common practice these days, unless the word "some" is utilized, the common assumption is that the speaker/writer means "all".

Some day the grammars may catch up with the usage; for now, comply with the usage, and we can avoid all this.

 

[TX-Beau]

What got us into the current mess was sloppily-regulated capitalism.

This I completely agree with.

 

[HenryReardon]

In Post-Modernism, the Self is a continuum that ranges from the core Individual to immersion in the Many. Both selfishness and socialism are simultaneously valid.
There is nothing illogical in this; rather, modern logic is logic with the guts taken out.

What an absolute load of psycho-babble - and bovine excreta.

 

[Kurn]

It's long been impressed upon me how the typical North American ideas about anything socialist are influenced by the Cold War. The reference linking Socialism and Stalin illustrate this. When I think of socialism in America I'm also thinking of keeping America very AMERICAN. But what we had in our country for 40 long years was a constant ideological tension that demanded that the population learn the repudiations that we have learned so well.
There was a Cosmo-Political Epic Struggle being played out that demanded social and ideological struggles above and below and beyond the multi-layered military struggles.
This means that our thinking about being pragmatic and successful in our socio-economic thinking as Americans has suffered an abbreviation of vision. Things had to be said a certain way in order to strengthen the sinews and apportion the concentration needed for the struggle.

My expression may be deficient; that is the nature of writing about this edge of things. But, the only babble in it is from the emerging from babble. Learn to hear the babble all around us and then learn to separate it from Natural Sense.
Redundant babble is a powerful irritant. But if you can make yourself aware of it it is much easier to become cleansed of it.

There is nothing at all impractical in what I am saying. It is seed, core, flesh, peel and stem, radically practical.

 

[Harke the Boeotarch]

By the way.

No one who has any kind of notion of what terrible pollution the Communist regimes caused in Eastern Europe, will ever claim that socialism is "pro-Planet".