Someone please explain children out of wedlock and single parent homes...

[1gayguy]

Wow...Now I remember why I had stepped away from here for a while.

So many generalizations put forth as fact here it's almost disturbing. Especially coming from supposedly educated people in a subset of society.

Studies and statistics can be swayed to read many different ways. If you wait long enough there will be a study that contradicts the findings of the first. Best example of this is the many medical studies that say one thing and then six months later are found incorrect by a following study.

As someone from the gay communtiy I know that there are many differet people that go into the make up of our community. There are twinks and bears, leather lovers and gear lovers, drag queens and butch daddies. The same hold true in people who are parents. There are helicopter parents and hands off parents, single mothers and single fathers, loving parents and parents who hate.

Rather than pigeon hole the children and punish them for the percieved faults of their parents, show them that they can be whatever they want even if it means having to work through the roadblocks that life throws up to everyone. Show them they can be a success regardless of their education level ( a la Bill Gates). Show them that success covers many levels. Show them that they are valued members of society.

Keep in mind that there are people from all walks of life that despite having two parents, a good education, etc, still end up being monsters. Here in New hampshire we recently had a brutal home invasion resulting in the death of mother while her pre teen daughter watched. 2 out of the 3 perps came from 2 parent homes. The Craigs List Killer was enroled in an Ivy League school.

People will always surprise.

 

[Lostlover]

I believe she's adopting the two girls because she believes that she and her HUSBAND can offer them they wouldn't have in Sierra Leone at a group home. But I should tell her she's wasting her time. Evidently, having two parents isn't necessary which is something I'm sure you probably believe. Your mother is the exception. Don't think most parents have it together like her. They don't. I've seen it.

Why do I think your mother is an exception? One of the links I posted mentioned how children raised in single parent homes by shaker uppers, are more likely to experiment with drugs, not graduate from school and suffer from depression.

Are you depressed? On drugs? Right...

Are you really trying to draw a parallel between my life and that of two little girls from a war ravaged region in Africa? Way to twist my example around to a completely and utterly different situation to make your prejudice look OK. And have you ever considered that maybe, just maybe, your cousin is adopting those girls not because they come from a single parent home but because s/he's (the gender of your cousin changed on your post) grown to love them and doesn't want to see them slaughtered in their war torn homeland by a group of vicious mercenaries?

One more question, what makes you think that my mother and the ~5000 parents from my school and town are the exceptions and what you've experienced is "the actual truth". My moneys on arrogance and less than reliable and valid "studies".

 

[Musik2400]

Clearly your mother isn't the norm. The parents I deal with probably never considered marriage like your mom did. I'm also not too sure how the study authors handled divorced mothers in their data. You can't help if your parent dies or if your spouse cheats.

Small world. My cousin in a pediatrician at John Hopkins. She just got back from a war zone in Africa and is adopting two little girls there. I should probably tell her though that he's wasting thousands of dollars trying to get them here since children don't need two parents. They can do just as well with one or none like the two little girls she's working to adopt.

Alright well let's begin with "the norm". Who exactly are you to decide what the norm is? You still have yet to address the fact that of the ADULT inmates in jail, they only make up 5% of ADULTS raised by single parents. I dunno, your "norm" seems kind of contradictory to your statistics. You're placing your own personal experience on a much larger scale than you have the ability to assess.

How about for an analogy I use gay men. The normal stereotype for a gay man is the flamboyant, dressed like a woman, lisp, etc. Therefore it is hard for people to believe when "normal" men are gay because they don't seem gay. The flamboyant ones are the ones who are easy to identify, and the ones people can tell are gay, so those who don’t know better think all gay people are like them.

Similar with children. There are (proven through statistical and anecdotal evidence over and over again) many children who are raised by single parents are NOT bad kids. it is those bad kids which ou come up against that taint the image of an out of wedlock child in your mind. Those ones are easily recognized because they "sync up" with your statistics, and confirm your beliefs. The kids who are good, and who you have less contact with their parents, you cannot be entirely sure they are not born out of wedlock or to a single parent. You're simply assuming all the good kids aren't.

But if you want those specific questions answered here ya go:

Dave Thomas was born to an unwed mother on July 2nd 1932
He as adopted at the age of 6 weeks, and his adopted mother died when he was 5.
While his father moved around the country looking for work he lived with his SINGLE GRANDMOTHER who he credits with teaching him how to treat others well and with respect.
Then he began moving with his father, and by 15 was working (had been working since 12) in a restaurant in Fort Wayne
When his father went to move again, Dave Thomas stayed, dropped out of high school, not earning his GED until 1993.

And yet despite being constantly under the supervision of one parental figure... he founded Wendy's.

As for the exception... well I find it kind of funny that of all the people I've met and made friends with at college...probably half of them are single parents... and they manage to not only take care of their kids, but do their own schooling. One specific friend currently has 100% in three of her courses and 90's in her other two... and she is raising 3 kids single handedly. Not because she's irresponsible. no, quite the opposite. She could have lived married life, given those kids 2 parents, and the "perfect" life... except she decided to leave her husband worth 2 million dollars the night he hit her, and threatened to throw her out a window. But you're right. Kids should have 2 parents. Those kids should really be taken back to that father, otherwise their mother who is currently ace-ing college will warp their future and send them on the wrong path.

I find the problem with educators is that they think just because they are an educator that they're smarter than anyone else, that they know better than everybody. Clearly this isn't the case.

 

[jasoncrew03]

I believe she's adopting the two girls because she believes that she and her HUSBAND can offer them they wouldn't have in Sierra Leone at a group home. But I should tell her she's wasting her time. Evidently, having two parents isn't necessary which is something I'm sure you probably believe. Your mother is the exception. Don't think most parents have it together like her. They don't. I've seen it.

Why do I think your mother is an exception? One of the links I posted mentioned how children raised in single parent homes by shaker uppers, are more likely to experiment with drugs, not graduate from school and suffer from depression.

Are you depressed? On drugs? Right...

You are completely missing the point. Regardless of the fact that your sister is married, she could give those girls a better life than they would have in Sierra Leone and yes, to spell it out for you, that includes the alternate version of reality where she is not married. Or do you truly think it would be better for them to live in a group home in a war ravaged area in Africa than to live in the horror that is a safe, single parent home in America?

Yes, I know my mother is an exception and that includes among married parents as well. You know who isn't an exception (at least by the definition of a representative sample that reputable researchers use)? Those 5000 parents of the students at my high school. But she is not an exception because she is a single parent and a good mother, she's an exception because she is an extraordinary mother and person in general.

By the term "shaker uppers" I'm guessing you mean bad parents? Well no shit kids raised by bad parents will experiment with drugs, be depressed and not graduate from high school. That's true regardless of their parent's marital status.

And once again, what makes you think what you've "seen" is the actual truth? Who are you to tell me what to think?

And finally, may I ask what in either of my responses suggested that I am depressed or on drugs? I can't find any trace of either in my posts.... are you on drugs?

 

[Lostlover]

By the term "shaker uppers" I'm guessing you mean bad parents? Well no shit kids raised by bad parents will experiment with drugs, be depressed and not graduate from high school. That's true regardless of their parent's marital status.

They're not nearly as likely to do those things when raised by two parents instead of one mother.

And once again, what makes you think what you've "seen" is the actual truth? Who are you to tell me what to think?

The person you're getting all emotional about responding to. Remember the "fuck you" comment earlier?

And finally, may I ask what in either of my responses suggested that I am depressed or on drugs? I can't find any trace of either in my posts.... are you on drugs?

Exactly. You're not depressed or on drugs. That's why I facetiously asked that. It really wasn't supposed to be answered. But the study suggests that shacker uppers' experiments (I mean children.) are more likely to get involved in drugs, become depressed and not finish school.

 

[Lostlover]

Trivia Time: Did you know that no one knows how old Eva Peron of Argentina was when she died? Back then, her parents altered her birthdate so that people wouldn't know her parents conceived her out of wedlock.

I bet you her parents would have liked to have been born today. They'd have her out of wedlock despite a significant increase in probability that she'd spend time in jail or do drugs. Yet people can't complain about her child rearing even when it leads to more violence in society.

Oh, and she'd probably never become first lady of anything while we're at it.

 

[1gayguy]

Obviously no one is going to sway your opinion.
You are so right. No one who comes from a non traditional home has a chance of changing their destiny.
All of your studies are correct and there are absolutely no exceptions to any of them.
While we're at let's forget any current study of homosexuality and reach back to the studies that claim homsexuality is a disease.

 

[Lostlover]

Obviously no one is going to sway your opinion.
You are so right. No one who comes from a non traditional home has a chance of changing their destiny.
All of your studies are correct and there are absolutely no exceptions to any of them.
While we're at let's forget any current study of homosexuality and reach back to the studies that claim homsexuality is a disease.

Of course people can choose to do right or wrong. But why do parents put children in unfavorable situations and statistical categories when they don't have too?

I thought I read somewhere that homosexuals are more educated and better paid than the general populace?

 

[LilBit]

 

[1gayguy]

Sometimes in life things happen that change situations. A spouse dies or for whatever reason ( cheating, abuse of spouse or child or both, etc.) a divorce happens.

Loss of a job, a career can have a major impact, despite the best planning. As can general economic down turn.

Say hypothetically, dad and mum have a great 4 bedroom 3.5 bath home and all the trappings that go with it. They have been very careful planning for the 2 kids' college educations and have the 1 years salary in savings as a just in case.

The real estate market nose dives and they've lost a ton of money on the value of the home but it's ok because they can still make the payments.

Then dad loses his well paying job in upper management. They don't worry, they have planned for this.

Dad has gone a year and not been able to find work. They are now dipping into the college funds and trying to negotiate with creditors to lessen payments. The BMW is gone and the Sport Ute has been replaced by a used mini van.

Dad has now been unemployed for 2 years. The only jobs he can even get interviews for pay 1/3 of his previous salary. The house is about to go into forclosure.

The family as a whole, lose their home. The kids have been pulled out of the schools they grew up in. They are forced to share a room in a grand parents' or aunt or uncle's home.

The disruption to the family is chaotic.

The parents didn't choose this. This was brought upon strictly by outside forces.

Even though mum and dad are still together, the strain they are under passes down to their children.

The children start acting out. Not just in school but everywhere. As they get older, they get in with the wrong crowd. They start doing drugs, drinking, getting arrested.

They still have both parents.

This is not what the parents wanted for their children.

 

[fetaby]

Of course people can choose to do right or wrong. But why do parents put children in unfavorable situations and statistical categories when they don't have too?

I thought I read somewhere that homosexuals are more educated and better paid than the general populace?

Existing is an unfavorable situation... From the moment you're born, you start to die.

I could pull statistics that say living in a third world country is less advantageous to living in a first world country. Would you be the one to tell an entire country they shouldn't have children because statistically the children are somehow underprivileged?

But regardless of the way you dodge my question, you're original question is moot. Humans are animals that are going to do what they want to do. Thinking we are somehow capable of being more than what we are is an exercise in futility. Just another ostrich with its head in the sand.

 

[Lostlover]

One has to wonder if Casey Anthony's daughter would still be alive today if she married her daughter's father instead of just opening up her legs and having the daughter illegitimately.

There would be a husband there that she'd have to answer to...

 

[ShihTzuTylenol]

One has to wonder if Casey Anthony's daughter would still be alive today if she married her daughter's father instead of just opening up her legs and having the daughter illegitimately.

There would be a husband there that she'd have to answer to...

I heard a rumor you were killed in a stampede at a Glenn Beck book signing.
Let me see if I got this straight......you think we should implement Sharia Law in this country? So bishes would be forced to do anything their owners tell them right?

 

[Lostlover]

I heard a rumor you were killed in a stampede at a Glenn Beck book signing.
Let me see if I got this straight......you think we should implement Sharia Law in this country? So bishes would be forced to do anything their owners tell them right?

What's I'm saying is clear, if Casey had respect for herself and daughter, there would be a little girl in school now. But she took the easy and carefree road by opening up her legs and having a child she wasn't prepared to take care of.

Since she was a single mom, no one really could hold her responsible immediately for the absence of her daughter.

Instead her daughter turned into an obstacle when Casey realized she didn't want to be a mom.

As for your Taliban comment, if we had some of its rules against unwed mothers, our crimes rates would be a fraction of what they are now. 77% of inmates were raised by a single mom. That's no coincidence. The Taliban is harsh, but let's not act like loose women don't hurt society.

 

[MoufOfKhaos]

I read this entire thread(I'll be the first to admit to being intrigued, and then bored, and then intrigued again)... and all i've managed to learn is that you should not be a teacher, at all. That's not coming from a place of anger, it's just that someone that jaded in his thinking of home life, statistics and other such menial matter already has a (in your case, curiously strong) bias, and has no business in the classroom trying to give students what they need to succeed in life, as you've proven with each post that you think you know who will succeed and who won't already. I mean, look at your quip about Casey Anthony... you seem to think that Caylee was destined to die simply because her mother wasn't married, where there was a MUCH bigger case about a woman, Andrea Yates, who was married, and killed all five of her children. I fail to see your point, in comparison.

It's a little frightening to know that the next generation might have to rely on you, because what's painfully apparent is, you lack a heart. Aren't teachers supposed to have some sort of compassion, some heart at the beginning of their careers? I could cuss you up and down about you being sickened or frightened about special ed kids(that would be my adoptive cousin, btw), but what would be the point?

The best I can say is, choose another line of work where your thoughts aren't implanted in a childs' head.

 

[MisterMajestic]

One has to wonder if Casey Anthony's daughter would still be alive today if she married her daughter's father instead of just opening up her legs and having the daughter illegitimately.

There would be a husband there that she'd have to answer to...

You havent heard the latest about "The baby Daddy"? The Guy Casey claimed was the Father is NOT. Had she married the Biological Father something would have happened to her daughter eventually because Casey is allergic to "Calmness". She's a "wild child" and she has to be on-the-go 24/7...A child slows her down and even though she loved her daughter she hated the Fact that she cramped her lifestyle.

Parents like Casey tend to neglect their kids. Usually the kids raise themselves and they don't end up dead... All Casey wanted to do was "Party".

 

[Lostlover]

I read this entire thread(I'll be the first to admit to being intrigued, and then bored, and then intrigued again)... and all i've managed to learn is that you should not be a teacher, at all. That's not coming from a place of anger, it's just that someone that jaded in his thinking of home life, statistics and other such menial matter already has a (in your case, curiously strong) bias, and has no business in the classroom trying to give students what they need to succeed in life, as you've proven with each post that you think you know who will succeed and who won't already. I mean, look at your quip about Casey Anthony... you seem to think that Caylee was destined to die simply because her mother wasn't married, where there was a MUCH bigger case about a woman, Andrea Yates, who was married, and killed all five of her children. I fail to see your point, in comparison.

It's a little frightening to know that the next generation might have to rely on you, because what's painfully apparent is, you lack a heart. Aren't teachers supposed to have some sort of compassion, some heart at the beginning of their careers? I could cuss you up and down about you being sickened or frightened about special ed kids(that would be my adoptive cousin, btw), but what would be the point?

The best I can say is, choose another line of work where your thoughts aren't implanted in a childs' head.

I never said that. Quote me...

I did say though that a husband would have immediately asked where his daughter was. Whereas the sperm donor doesn't care. He's not emotionally invested in Casey.

 

[Lostlover]

You havent heard the latest about "The baby Daddy"? The Guy Casey claimed was the Father is NOT. Had she married the Biological Father something would have happened to her daughter eventually because Casey is allergic to "Calmness". She's a "wild child" and she has to be on-the-go 24/7...A child slows her down and even though she loved her daughter she hated the Fact that she cramped her lifestyle.

Parents like Casey tend to neglect their kids. Usually the kids raise themselves and they don't end up dead... All Casey wanted to do was "Party".

It was a train wreck waiting to happen. Poor daughter. You don't choose your parents.

Mommy just wanted to have a good time until a baby got in the way. Now she gets to talk out of prison to have more illegitimate children! Yay! My tax dollars going to waste and the crime levels in my community skyrocketing because people are careless when it comes to their children!

 

[Lostlover]

And here you are, a crazed Obama (that didn't have his father in his life) supporter .

Fuck this shit. I'm putting your ass on ignore. I'm sick of reading your nonsense posts.

Someone ought to report you to the Department Of Education. You're a terrible excuse of a teacher.

48 going on 8. Please put me on ignore.

 

[legend145]

I agree with you lostlover. Although I am not a teacher, being a former student I know where you are coming from. I have seen children come to class and just lay their head down. The teacher tells them to do the their work and the student cops an attitude as if the teacher is doing something wrong. As a student, I hated lazy kids. They thought school was some social party. They forgot that people died for the right to be educated. I went to school in Georgia and the state uses lottery money to pay for kids tuition to go to college. If a student graduated high school with 3.0 or better their TUITION was FUCKING PAID for! You can still get C's to get a 3.0 and yet most of them won't get the scholarship. Now all of sudden teachers are getting blamed for the failure of children. Our education system won't improve until teachers stop doing the job the parents were suppose to do.