Still fucking confused

[hanshansen]

I’m posting this on the bi part of the forum as well, just to get a greater chance of success ...

OK, so in some ways things have got a whole lot better in the past three months since I started posting to this site. I met someone on here who has become a good friend, who has helped me reassess my views on gay people, on relationships, on life in general. Some things look very different, some have become a lot clearer. I came out as bi to my father a week ago, he was more supportive than I could have expected and after some initial self-consciousness on my part we are the same around each other as we have always been. I haven’t talked to my mother yet but that is only because I haven’t had the chance to speak to her one-on-one, my dad has said he is sure that she would be understanding. I know some concrete things that I would be willing to do in the next couple of months to get to know more people who I could be comfortable around.

All that said, deep down I have still not come to terms with my sexuality, at all. I am confused as hell and don’t know where it’s going to lead. I go to bed in the evening thinking that I have finally made peace with myself, then I wake up at 3.30 in the morning and lie awake thinking for the next couple of hours.

To provide some context, I should be up front about two things. First, for many years (I’m in my late 20s now) I thought I was basically gay (though I was unhappy about that and really wanted to change it). It wasn’t that I found girls totally uninteresting all the time, but it was very much a second-order thing and I really couldn’t picture myself with them. For whatever reason, that changed since I started posting to this forum three months ago in a way that I really didn’t expect. Secondly, I guess for that reason and because I was so closeted, I haven’t been a relationship, either with a guy or a girl. So some of what I’m going to say hasn’t been tested.

I'll start with the basics of physical attraction. That swings around every week or so. Sometimes girls’ bodies turn me on, sometimes guys’ bodies do. Not at the same time. (The idea of a 3some with 2 girls is hot, a guy and a girl isn’t.) I feel 90 per cent gay some days, and 90 (or 80, there’s some bias) per cent straight on others. This is a big source of stress in itself because I get used to being one or the other and then find I can’t get my rocks off in that way any more.

As far as sex goes, though, after really thinking about it in relation to me (rather than just looking at gay porn and seeing guys pretending to look aroused) sex with a guy (that includes hand jobs, blow jobs etc) really doesn’t interest me that much, whereas I think about having sex with girls regularly ... It’s not absolute, if a really hot guy wanted to spend the night with me I would definitely be interested, but I would much rather sleep with a good-looking girl than with an average-looking guy.

On the other hand, in so far as I crave emotional and (non-sexual) physical intimacy, I tend to imagine it being with a guy rather than a girl. Let me put it another way: all the really good relationships that I’ve seen are about two people who are totally comfortable with one another. It’s like they can totally let down their guard with each other. They don’t have to worry about impressing each other. Sure, they make sacrifices and do nice things for each other, but that’s because they want to. I have this really strong gut feeling that if I let the walls come down with a girl, something bad would happen (she’d lose interest in me? I’d lose interest in her?) whereas if I let my guard down with the right guy, something really great could come out of it. Maybe this is because I’m not that masculine, either in physical build or temperament-wise.

Finally, as far as the non-physical parts of sexual attraction go (eye contact, flirting, dressing to impress etc) I’m still a lot more receptive to those signals from guys than from girls. Sometimes it really hits me that a girl is flirting, or knows she’s attractive, but it happens less often and I’m always surprised when it happens, I’m not used to picking up on that kind of stuff.

So, physical attraction: it varies. Sex: mainly girls. Non-physical stuff: mainly guys. Please respond if you can relate to any of this. What am I supposed to do with this mess? What can I expect to change in the future? Does it sound like I’m a gay guy with sexual hang ups, or am I still in the process of coming to terms with my bisexuality?

Most of all: SHOULD I WORRY?

 

[jasboi2004]

Just a quick thought and although I have not been in your situation I do wonder whether you are confusing your desire for a strong emotional connection such as friendship with a guy with sexual feelings.

I know that you haven't posted much about yourself for me to make that call (and I did consider sending this through a pm) but so many gay men misinterpret friendship with a straight guy as being or wanting to be sexual. Men get along with men easier usually because usually there is less confusing emotional stuff and we have more of the same interests. I read so many threads where a gay guy falls for his straight friend. I'm guilty of this as well but when I look back at things it is usually that I want a strong friendship and I misinterpret kindness/friendship from friends as being sexual advances.

Now I am not saying that this representative of you but there may be some connection with a male person that you have longed for or has been absent in your life (eg. father). This is not meant to offend but as I first said just a thought.

And by the way there is no reason to worry. Sexuality should be seen on a continuum and not extremes.

 

[gameboy 11]

I'm so sorry that you're confused. I don't know what I'd do if I was in your position. I think you are bi though. Just leave it at that. ^_^

 

[hanshansen]

Just a quick thought and although I have not been in your situation I do wonder whether you are confusing your desire for a strong emotional connection such as friendship with a guy with sexual feelings.

....


This is not meant to offend but as I first said just a thought.

Don't worry, no offence taken. I don't really have coherent answers to your questions/suggestions, though.

I know what you are talking about with reading a sexual intent into friendliness. I did that a couple of times in the past but fortunately I realised that I actually just wanted the friendship and the (non-sexual) 'good chemistry' and got over what was turning into a crush.

I don't have any missing father figures, I am very close to my father in many ways. But when I was young (till age 8 or 9) I was extremely 'touchy-feely' with people (very sheltered and indulged only child). At age 8 I spent a year at a school in Germany (where I come from originally) and this wasn't accepted at all, I was bullied really badly. Basically, that put a stop to all that (and as a teenager I went on to an English-style boys' school here in NZ, where it wasn't encouraged either). And a little later my sexual confusion started, as well, so that didn't help. I am about as far from 'touchy-feely' as you could imagine. I don't think I have hugged my own father since age 9 or 10. I bond with people by talking and sharing interests, but that's it. So, maybe you are right in some sense.

 

[hanshansen]

IMO, what you describe is a st8 guy who's nervous around girls.

Why would a straight guy who's nervous around girls say that he is attracted to guys every other week?

 

[ivyguy24]

well, I can give you a definite answer to one part of your post. You ask, should I worry? My answer is no, you shouldn't worry.

I'm kind of in a somewhat similar situation, I have had sex with both women and men, but both seem to give me the same level of sexual pleasure. As far as emotional attatchment, I've had better luck with women. There are two people that I have been with who I was deeply in love with, and both happened to be women. Not to say that it couldn't happen with a guy, it just hasn't happened to me as of yet.

I tell you you shouldn't worry, because you have no need to label yourself. I drove myself crazy trying to figure out exactly how to classify myself, I guess I consider myself more bi than anything else, but it's really not important that you give yourself a definite label. Just do what feels right, and in time maybe a definite label will come to you...but I wouldn't say it's worth obsessing about, and whatever your sexuality maybe, certainly nothing to worry about.

 

[hanshansen]

That's why I say that. In order to be gay, or even bi, there has to be a sexual attraction.

Maybe you're confusing being attracted to men with finding them attractive. I'm gay and I can think that a woman is attractive, but I don't want to have sex with her.

Do you want to have sex with everyone you are attracted to? (Serious question.) For example, do you want to have sex with heterosexual or otherwise totally unavailable guys who you think are hot? For me, sexual attraction = feeling a physical response when you see someone or are around someone you find attractive.

Note that I said it's not an absolute thing. A couple of weeks ago I came across a guy (a librarian I mentioned in another thread) who I ended up having erotic dreams about for two nights. That has hardly ever happened to me. That guy was head-turningly attractive, he was very different from me (sort of Mediterranean-looking, very extrovert personality type) and I didn't know him. I wrote about him on here and was persuaded to think about him as a person with a life rather than as a sex object, and the feelings cooled off ... I think the problem is that I think of guys who I relate to as people (as friends, colleagues, people I share interests with, etc.) as in some way basically like me, and I wouldn't like to do anything sexual with myself, either. With girls there isn't that problem.

 

[hanshansen]

well, I can give you a definite answer to one part of your post. You ask, should I worry? My answer is no, you shouldn't worry.

...

I tell you you shouldn't worry, because you have no need to label yourself. I drove myself crazy trying to figure out exactly how to classify myself, I guess I consider myself more bi than anything else, but it's really not important that you give yourself a definite label. Just do what feels right, and in time maybe a definite label will come to you...but I wouldn't say it's worth obsessing about, and whatever your sexuality maybe, certainly nothing to worry about.

Thanks, I know that you're essentially right, and that Nurlan is as well.

One more thing I will say is this (it doesn't follow from your post): when I care about people I really take them seriously, I am not someone who wants to string people along, or be unfaithful to them, or have a bit on the side. I do not want to make people I care about feel bad about themselves (that they don't do it for me emotionally or sexually). Once I can get past those fears (of hurting other people and feeling guilty) then I won't feel nearly so bad about this any more.

 

[hanshansen]

Finding someone attractive is different from finding someone sexually attractive. I think Halle Berry is one of the most attractive women in the world. But I don't want to have sex with her. Why, because I'm gay, I don't find her sexually attractive. Also, for me, I can find str8 and bi men attractive, but I don't want o have sex with them because i don't find them sexually attractive. Now if I'm sexually attracted to a guy then I'm most likely going to want to have sex with him. That's not to say I would sleep with him if given the chance.
Now please correct me if I'm wrong, (I do want to get this right) you find men sexually attractive, yet sex with a guy really doesn't interest you. Or is it, you find some men sexually attractive, but sex with them really doesn't interest you. But with women you find them sexually attractive and you have no problem with sleeping with them. Am I right?

OK. I'll try again. (Sorry for the confusion.)

If I'm sexually attracted to a woman, then I would have no problem with sleeping with her. The difficulty is that I might be sexually attracted to the same woman one day and not the next.

I can't remember an instance where I was sexually attracted to a guy who I knew as a person, sufficiently to be OK with having sex with him. Just like you're not sexually attracted to bi men, I'm not sexually attracted to guys who I am friends with or identify with, or only very weakly. It's like there's this tap there that gets turned off. I have had emotional/romantic crushes on a couple of guys that I have known. I would have loved having them as my boyfriend, with all the emotional benefits, but I never imagined myself having sex with them. Sex would at best have been a means of getting that.

You say you're confused, but I'm having a hard time trying to figure out what you're confused about. You're not gay, that's for sure, and you say you're not str8. So that leaves the bi option.

I was confused about what I was because all these bi issues are fairly recent and I really only became fully conscious of them when I started talking to people on the JUB forum. So this is all new. For years and years I thought I was 90 per cent gay.

I'm no longer confused that I'm bi. I'm puzzled that it took me so long to realise it. (I'm particularly surprised because if you had asked me 2 years ago, when I was totally in the closet, if I would rather be gay or bi, I would have said bi without hesitation, because it would have been closer to being hetero. At the moment I would in some ways much rather be 100 per cent gay and have everything nice and simple.)

I'm confused by my bi feelings, because they are pulling me in different directions at different times along different dimensions.

But, as other people have said, the only solution to that is to be open and open-minded about the feelings and where they might lead, and to be willing to try things and 'go with the flow'.

 

[hanshansen]

Would you have an issue with sleeping with a guy you didn't know on a personal level if you found him sexually attractive?

After some thought: probably quite a bit less so. Sorry, that's how things appear at the moment.

 

[hanshansen]

After some thought: probably quite a bit less so. Sorry, that's how things appear at the moment.

Been doing some more thinking about this and I think I'm starting to understand what it's about a litttle better. It's not just a matter of knowing or not knowing someone personally.

When I'm in the right mood, girls are mysterious, for want of a better word: their bodies are mysterious, their sex lives are mysterious. There is something there that (I believe) I will never be fully able to identify with, that I want to explore and know more about. That's not the case with guys who are friends and acquaintances, even those who are good-looking, or in shape, or maybe not 100% hetero. I have a couple of friends who I have really great chemistry with, we joke around all the time and are very relaxed around each other. Because of this, I developed an emotional crush on one of these guys earlier on (which I no longer have). But I have no interest in seeing any of them naked. It would be like looking into the bathroom mirror.

I guess I'll find exceptions to this. I came across the librarian I mentioned earlier again yesterday. I was wrong in my earlier post: I still think he is hot, and I have the strong hunch that if I met this guy at a party, we got to know each other, and he then wanted to take it further, I would at the very least be intrigued. As I said, he looks very different from me (non-Nordic type), he is extrovert, he shows off his body. He is also somewhat flamboyant, but not in an artificial, put-on way. All that makes him sufficiently different in ways related to sex (from how I perceive myself) to make him sexually interesting, to me.

Does this make any sense? Do you get over this? I have the bad feeling that it's another sign of how immature I am ...