Sugar Tax? It Is Time to Crush the Sugar Industry

[Alnitak]

Nevertheless, controlling what the people eat and do not eat is authoritarian. Evan communists and other socialists claim that they re doing it for the benefit of the people. What you are describing is a difference in the ideology and possibly methods used to justify control, not a difference in control.

It is authoritarian, but ultimately also utilitarian.

The end result is a healthier society and lower health care costs, which currently consume a fifth of the U.S. economy.

Authoritarianism is also neither liberal nor conservative.

 

[Benvolio]

Let's just impose a fine if they eat more than the government decides. Same thing. There is no freedom in your free markets.

 

[Benvolio]

It is authoritarian, but ultimately also utilitarian.

The end result is a healthier society and lower health care costs, which currently consume a fifth of the U.S. economy.

Authoritarianism is also neither liberal nor conservative.

"Our totalitarianism is different because we say we are doing it for the people and we always know what is best for them. What they want is irrelevant."
In the US, liberalism is a movement toward totalitarianism, the opposite of what the word liberalism (from liberty).

 

[xbuzzerx]

Nobody is telling people what they can eat, we're just demanding they pay the full bill. Making them pay the costs of what they eat is purely free-market economics and nothing authoritarian about it. But letting them pay less than the full cost and making the rest of us pay the costs of their choices? That is pure authoritarian socialism.

This tax reduces socialism by stopping somebody else from passing the costs of their lousy lifestyle on to me, and places the burden of an unhealthy choice on the person himself, still free to make that choice, which is exactly what the free market should do.

In the 21st century, "Free market" is when corporations are free to continue operating while taking advantage of tax loopholes, overseas tax evasion, government subsidies, taxpayer funded and maintained roads (and cleanup on those interstates when corporate shipping upends a tank of liquid nitrogen), bankruptcy debt evasion, corporate welfare and the like.

It is "socialism" when benefits the taxpayer pays for goes to something which directly benefits taxpayers, and not corporations.

Pretty simple no? lol.

 

[xbuzzerx]

It is authoritarian, but ultimately also utilitarian.

The end result is a healthier society and lower health care costs, which currently consume a fifth of the U.S. economy.

Authoritarianism is also neither liberal nor conservative.

I would like you to comment on what you predict the effects would be of doing this to sugar while we have a subsidized high fructose corn syrup industry which, by and large, already is being used in place of authentic sugar in most affordable sweets and snacks on American grocery store shelves.

 

[Alnitak]

"Our totalitarianism is different because we say we are doing it for the people and we always know what is best for them. What they want is irrelevant."
In the US, liberalism is a movement toward totalitarianism, the opposite of what the word liberalism (from liberty).

Liberalism means left wing politics, and that can be either authoritarian or libertarian. As you can see there are a few liberals here who disagree on this issue.

 

[Benvolio]

I would like you to comment on what you predict the effects would be of doing this to sugar while we have a subsidized high fructose corn syrup industry which, by and large, already is being used in place of authentic sugar in most affordable sweets and snacks on American grocery store shelves.

I would need to read something reliable defining the subsidies HFCS gets. Why do you think it is less "authentic" that beet or cane sugar? The industry is likely to change if Cubans are allowed to sell cane sugar to US countries.

 

[Benvolio]

Liberalism means left wing politics, and that can be either authoritarian or libertarian. As you can see there are a few liberals here who disagree on this issue.

In practice, I am not familiar with any libertarian liberalism. Even in the area of sex, what I see is the government taking control from traditional institutions and customs. Most civil rights legislation cane be seen as mor liberty for sme but but at the loss to others of freedom. Hate crimes as well involve criminalizing thought. You can look at each item and say "this is good", but more and more of the details of our lives are being controlled by the government. And, we know from experience that the liberals will fully exploit any slippery slope we concede to them.
.

 

[xbuzzerx]

I would need to read something reliable defining the subsidies HFCS gets. Why do you think it is less "authentic" that beet or cane sugar? The industry is likely to change if Cubans are allowed to sell cane sugar to US countries.

The HFCS is a result of the subsidized corn growing industry, it is a byproduct to use all the surplus so far as I understand it.

 

[evanrick]

Oh Ben, I'd loooooovvvveeeeeee to tell you what to eat!

shit???????

 

[Benvolio]

The HFCS is a result of the subsidized corn growing industry, it is a byproduct to use all the surplus so far as I understand it.

Beet and cane sugar are subsidized as well.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Beet and cane sugar are subsidized as well.

The point is that it remains a very cheap (I'm actually fairly sure it's more commonly used as a junk food sweetener than real sugar) unhealthy (possibly more unhealthy than sugar) subsidized product. Taxing or increasing the cost of sugar will not, imho, have a net effect on improving health because of it.

 

[Benvolio]

The point is that it remains a very cheap (I'm actually fairly sure it's more commonly used as a junk food sweetener than real sugar) unhealthy (possibly more unhealthy than sugar) subsidized product. Taxing or increasing the cost of sugar will not, imho, have a net effect on improving health because of it.

Tsk, tsk. Fairly, possibly, imho. Too many guesses to be healthy.

 

[frankfrank]

They could try making fruits and vegetables more affordable, too. One grocer here as a head of cauliflower for damn near 4 bucks, while the one that's a fifteen minute bus ride is a buck twenty. Such a price difference is deliberate and the cheaper one is in a much richer neighborhood.

Would you say that you're located in a "food desert"?

In the US, liberalism is a movement toward totalitarianism, the opposite of what the word liberalism (from liberty).

AND..."the opposite of progress is CONgress" - GALLAGHER (a comedian, said in the 1980's).

 

[luckynumbah7]

@frank,

Not exactly. I'm disabled and transportation is, at best, limited. Food deserts tend to happen for the disabled because of ability and distance. If there's nothing much in my area (this is the first time I've lived within easy distance of a chain grocers) then I'm stuck with overpriced grocers. When I was really lucky I could spend an hour and a half on and waiting for buses each way to get to the fresh grocers', and for only 8 bucks they deliver. So counting bus fare, I needed fifteen in cash in order to even use food stamps anywhere but the corner store. If your on foodstamps you don't generally have 15 bucks lieing around. It's more like a "we don't give a flying fuck about accessibility and the disabled" desert.

 

[Alnitak]

In practice, I am not familiar with any libertarian liberalism. Even in the area of sex, what I see is the government taking control from traditional institutions and customs. Most civil rights legislation cane be seen as mor liberty for sme but but at the loss to others of freedom. Hate crimes as well involve criminalizing thought. You can look at each item and say "this is good", but more and more of the details of our lives are being controlled by the government. And, we know from experience that the liberals will fully exploit any slippery slope we concede to them.
.

Hippies aren't libertarian?

And there are philosophers all over the political graph.

 

[Benvolio]

Hippies aren't libertarian?

And there are philosophers all over the political graph.

Liberalism in the US has a somewhat different meaning than it perhaps does in other countries. While the word liberalism is applied to the democrats, their agenda is decidedly authoritarian.

 

[TX-Beau]

Liberalism in the US has a somewhat different meaning than it perhaps does in other countries. While the word liberalism is applied to the democrats, their agenda is decidedly authoritarian.

Ben has no idea what "Liberalism" actually is - he operates from some bizarre right wing invention that bears no resemblance to anything. Liberals will tell him what they believe, then he just goes off on how they are liars who are in a secret race war to abort white people and replace them with Democratic voting illegals - because of course, illegals are such a huge voting block. Meanwhile apparently Obama has personally authorized an invasion of the South.

It's severe intellectual cowardice actually - but, there it is.

 

[bankside]

Freedom MUST mean freedom from tradition, for those who do not wish to participate in a tradition. All a tradition is is a habit of society that can't control an individual's preferences or actions. Those who wish to keep the tradition should also be able to do so, but when those same people wish to IMPOSE their tradition on everyone else, the government MUST intervene to stop them. That isn't eroding liberty, that's guaranteeing it.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Ben has no idea what "Liberalism" actually is - he operates from some bizarre right wing invention that bears no resemblance to anything. Liberals will tell him what they believe, then he just goes off on how they are liars who are in a secret race war to abort white people and replace them with Democratic voting illegals - because of course, illegals are such a huge voting block. Meanwhile apparently Obama has personally authorized an invasion of the South.

It's severe intellectual cowardice actually - but, there it is.

Exactly.

What we think we believe doesn't matter, Ben has the downlow 411 on all the secret conspiracies and plots we're all in on, trying to reform America as 100% illegal brown people.