Suing the victim, only in the US

[aaggii]

This woman deserves jail time for not taking care of her dogs and putting other dog (and most probably humans too) in danger. I swear, if any dog does something like this to my dog, I would kill them then and there.

 

[zombiekiller]

The numbers couldn't possibly have to do with them being the main use for dog fighting, which is also a huge problem. Considering a lot of people get their Pitbulls from rescues, because Pet Stores don't carry them because of the stigma. So where do you think a lot of these Pitbulls come from when they come from Rescue Centers? More than likely dogs who were in dog fighting or just in general trained to be a guard dog of some sort.

Neutering them is just a band-aid and wouldn't solve the problem. The human race already endangers so many other species, so I guess why not do it to another right?

Following your line of logic, that those attacks are from dogs that were once used for dog fighting, my point still stands.

And no one is talking about killing off the species. It's a breed. An artificial breed no less.

 

[MoufOfKhaos]

I know there are a lot of politically correct liberals here who rally to war cry that it's not the pit bull breed but the owners, and that the there is nothing wrong with the breed. I present to you some honest-to-god stats on this.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-ELQRmW7uo0WUhnLURZaVRCSzlNVDFTZ25WcWdNOXl2akgw/view

Do the math.

Don't get me wrong. I don't blame the dogs. I blame the original breeders of the breed. These animals were bred to be aggressive fighting dogs. It's genetics.

My brother in law recently hatched an egg of a pheasant. He treats that bird like his own child. He's been raising it since it came out of the egg shell. And yet, it still runs away from him. I once asked him why does it run away from him, and he said you can't domesticate a wild animal over night. It's genetics.

I'm a dog lover. I have 2 beagles and a chihuahua. So, don't accuse me of having an irrational fear. I'm sure there are pitbulls out there that are just adorable animals. But the breed as a whole is too aggressive for people.

I say we let the breed die. Neuter them all and outlaw breeding them commercially.

Spoken like a radical who believes everything has a liberal bias and that the "Establishment" is being pushed out in favor of what is "foreign".

And yes, it is the owner - I've been attacked by german shepards, but I don't think that they're all evil snarling beasts, only that their owners trained them to hate everyone. Never had a pitbull so much as growl at me.

 

[zombiekiller]

Spoken like a radical who believes everything has a liberal bias and that the "Establishment" is being pushed out in favor of what is "foreign".

And yes, it is the owner - I've been attacked by german shepards, but I don't think that they're all evil snarling beasts, only that their owners trained them to hate everyone. Never had a pitbull so much as growl at me.

So, is it people's imagination that certain breeds of dogs are more likely to behave certain ways?

I once watched a dog training class in petsmart. All the dogs present were puppies. The only collie in the group quickly herded the rest into a corner.

I talked to the dog trainer and several people there, and supposedly it's common.

My beagles bay. My chihuahua loves to be held and always jumps under the cover.

There are millions of dog owners out there that can tell you their dogs behave the way their breeds are known to behave. Are we all just imagining it?

 

[zoltanspawn]

Of course there are some potentially aggressive pitbulls which should only be owned by responsible, knowledgeable people.

In this case, the woman who owned them is obviously nuts.

But some here are quick to blame the dogs when the human is clearly at fault.

 

[MoufOfKhaos]

So, is it people's imagination that certain breeds of dogs are more likely to behave certain ways?

More likely to be raised in certain ways, yes. Labrador retrievers are more apt to be raised as assistance dogs, but it doesn't mean they are predisposed to be just that. Same for pitbulls.

There are millions of dog owners out there that can tell you their dogs behave the way their breeds are known to behave. Are we all just imagining it?

Are you all saying that every single pitbull is known to be violent and should be wiped from the earth? Because if so, yes, you are all wrong, and frankly, shouldn't own pets.

(as to your point on chihuahuas, I've seen several that are nothing more but ankle biting bastards[neighbor owned one when I was a kid, all that little yipping dog did was run into the street and chase people... apparently keeping a dog in the house was a "bad idea" according to them], but apparently, again, that's not always the case - same as pitbulls)

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

Following your line of logic, that those attacks are from dogs that were once used for dog fighting, my point still stands.

And no one is talking about killing off the species. It's a breed. An artificial breed no less.

Your point is not a very good one because once you would neuter enough and that breed slowly fades out, what people use Pitbulls for will just turn into another breed being used for the same thing. Yes Pitbulls have a certain build that people go on about as to why they're threatening animals, but that is exactly why they're used for what they're used for.

The hypocrisy here is that we have an animal that people have turned into a domesticated pet. Now that a certain breed of dog is dominantly trained to act worse than a wild counterpart of this animal, something needs to be done about it because it is hurting/killing humans. The problem here is the irresponsibility of humans and the fact that most people shouldn't even have pets because they can't take responsibility for them.

Animals get killed for acting like animals because people want to humanize them and when they act like an animal, it's an issue.

 

[zombiekiller]

More likely to be raised in certain ways, yes. Labrador retrievers are more apt to be raised as assistance dogs, but it doesn't mean they are predisposed to be just that. Same for pitbulls.

Strawman much? Never did I say that's the only thing they do. What I am saying is that they are predisposed to do that. Even if it's just on occasion, having a burst of aggression isn't something we would want in a family pet.

Are you all saying that every single pitbull is known to be violent and should be wiped from the earth? Because if so, yes, you are all wrong, and frankly, shouldn't own pets.

Again with the strawman.

You may think that I was born yesterday and I actually believe every single pitbull out there will attack people. I have news for you, I wasn't born yesterday.

Having said that, do you or do you not deny that the pitbull breed was bred to be fight dogs? Even if that aggression comes out once in a blue moon, it's still something we wouldn't want to happen.

Again, look at the numbers.

(as to your point on chihuahuas, I've seen several that are nothing more but ankle biting bastards[neighbor owned one when I was a kid, all that little yipping dog did was run into the street and chase people... apparently keeping a dog in the house was a "bad idea" according to them], but apparently, again, that's not always the case - same as pitbulls)

Have you actually read the stats I provided?

Just how much damage can a Chihuahua do? All you have to do is give it a kick and it will fly 20 feet away. You can't do the same with a pitbull.

Don't forget the jaws.

 

[zombiekiller]

Your point is not a very good one because once you would neuter enough and that breed slowly fades out, what people use Pitbulls for will just turn into another breed being used for the same thing. Yes Pitbulls have a certain build that people go on about as to why they're threatening animals, but that is exactly why they're used for what they're used for.

The hypocrisy here is that we have an animal that people have turned into a domesticated pet. Now that a certain breed of dog is dominantly trained to act worse than a wild counterpart of this animal, something needs to be done about it because it is hurting/killing humans. The problem here is the irresponsibility of humans and the fact that most people shouldn't even have pets because they can't take responsibility for them.

Animals get killed for acting like animals because people want to humanize them and when they act like an animal, it's an issue.

I agree with you 100%. It's people that are the problem.

So, what do we propose we do?

Here's my solution. Stop people from breeding it.

What's your solution?

 

[Vitamin]

Just how much damage can a Chihuahua do? All you have to do is give it a kick and it will fly 20 feet away. You can't do the same with a pitbull.

Don't forget the jaws.

Indeed, don't forget the jaws. I would imagine that a Chihuahua could easily clamp down on my ankle, and all my kicking in the world isn't going to get him off of me.

I'm sure it's happened.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

I agree with you 100%. It's people that are the problem.

So, what do we propose we do?

Here's my solution. Stop people from breeding it.

What's your solution?

Your solution wasn't to stop people from breeding it, your solution was to neuter the dog. Yes, I agree with stopping people from breeding it and cracking down on dog fights. There is only so much that is being done that could only go so far. My problem is that your opinion that it is a human created problem that leads to punishing the animal for it.

And how much damage a dog can do doesn't have to do with his point. His point has to do with the behavior in the dog, which is not special in Pitbulls.

 

[zombiekiller]

Your solution wasn't to stop people from breeding it, your solution was to neuter the dog. Yes, I agree with stopping people from breeding it and cracking down on dog fights. There is only so much that is being done that could only go so far. My problem is that your opinion that it is a human created problem that leads to punishing the animal for it.

And how much damage a dog can do doesn't have to do with his point. His point has to do with the behavior in the dog, which is not special in Pitbulls.

You're against neutering dogs?

I'm not proposing we exterminate them. We just need to stop breeding them. And neuter the ones that are already here.

Again, what do you propose we do?

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

You're against neutering dogs?

I'm not proposing we exterminate them. We just need to stop breeding them. And neuter the ones that are already here.

Again, what do you propose we do?

I'm against neutering because the reason for it in this case irrational and doesn't fix the actual problem. Which is the owners and people who train Pitbulls to be the way they are. The numbers of Pitbulls hurting/killing human beings is so disproportionate to these same statistics to other dogs. Like I said, you can neuter this breed of dogs and all it will do is get these same individuals who breed/use Pitbulls for what they do to move to another breed of dog.

What can be done is cracking down on dog fighting and people who breed for the reasons they breed Pitbulls, but that only goes so far.

Humans have made these animals domesticated, why is it so hard to believe that humans also have taken a breed of dog to what they are now?

 

[Vitamin]

^You do realize that veterinarians encourage people to neuter and spay any dog or cat they own, right?

 

[zombiekiller]

^You do realize that veterinarians encourage people to neuter and spay any dog or cat they own, right?

You're wasting your time. I highly doubt they will ever admit it.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

^You do realize that veterinarians encourage people to neuter and spay any dog or cat they own, right?

You're wasting your time. I highly doubt they will ever admit it.

Admit what?

Let me quote myself.

I'm against neutering because the reason for it in this case irrational and doesn't fix the actual problem.

You are suggesting neutering a dog to eliminate the breed because of how humans train them to be vicious killing machines, I disagree with that sentiment.

 

[zombiekiller]

Admit what?

Let me quote myself.



You are suggesting neutering a dog to eliminate the breed because of how humans train them to be vicious killing machines, I disagree with that sentiment.

No one is doubting that anything can be trained into killing machines. Just like anything can be made into a weapon. But I'd rather have someone come at me with a knife than an AK.

Dogs are animals. As much as I love dogs, they do not and should not have rights. They have interests.

Your goal of trying to get people to stop training them as vicious killers isn't realistic at all. But creating bottlenecks to let the breed die out is. Or at least make it significantly harder for the typical redneck to get it.

But go ahead and keep dreaming if it makes you feel any better.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

Dogs are animals. As much as I love dogs, they do not and should not have rights. They have interests.

That's nice, I disagree with it though.

Your goal of trying to get people to stop training them as vicious killers isn't realistic at all. But creating bottlenecks to let the breed die out is. Or at least make it significantly harder for the typical redneck to get it.

I don't believe that people will stop training the breed to kill just because they're being punished for it. Your notion that people will stop because a breed doesn't exist isn't realistic and I will repeat a point you seem to keep conveniently ignoring, you can neuter these dogs all you want to eventually make the breed fade out, but it will not solve the problem because the problem will just move to another breed. The disproportionate numbers between Pitbulls and other dogs says nothing more than that there is a factor behind why Pitbulls kill more than any other breed, it is because they're trained and bred to do so, by humans. The problem isn't going to magically go away because you take a breed out of equation, there are plenty of other breeds that are capable of doing it as well.

It is not an easy problem to solve and I don't claim that I have any real solution. I questioned yours because it was lazy one at best. It is the same notion that people believe that if we get rid of religion it will stop a lot of hate/prejudice in the world. It is completely unrealistic notion that people have that suggests prejudice and hate is very minimal outside of religion. People are stupid and petty, they will find simplistic ignorant things to hate other people for.

But go ahead and keep dreaming if it makes you feel any better.

I am far from dreaming, but keep dismissing and completely ignoring points that you can't answer from an argument you started but can't finish.

 

[zombiekiller]

]Your notion that people will stop because a breed doesn't exist isn't realistic[/B]

I'm getting frustrated by your strawman argument. You either have a reading comprehension or you are incapable of making a legit argument.

I'm done talking with someone that keeps creating one strawman argument after another to make me seem like I was born yesterday. If you legitimately want to have a legit discussion, go back and reread what I said. And stop assuming the stupidest interpretations of my words.

Hint, I never claimed letting the breed die out would stop people from training vicious fighting dogs. I even wrote a whole paragraph about it.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

I'm getting frustrated by your strawman argument. You either have a reading comprehension or you are incapable of making a legit argument.

I'm done talking with someone that keeps creating one strawman argument after another to make me seem like I was born yesterday. If you legitimately want to have a legit discussion, go back and reread what I said. And stop assuming the stupidest interpretations of my words.

Yes, making strawman arguments it is what I am doing. I'm just one of those politically correct liberals that you were making a slight at in your first post.

Hint, I never claimed letting the breed die out would stop people from training vicious fighting dogs. I even wrote a whole paragraph about it.

Then your whole point in the beginning is a moot one.