Survivor Gabon Cast Is Up!

[falconfan]

Re Charlie, it's funny how everyone but J-Man is bad-mouthing him and crushing on Marcus...which is...exactly why they're bad-mouthing Charlie. A little disturbing that there's sort of a group mutter about the only gay guy

Ummmmmm or people could be saying Charlie is a tad creepy becausee... he is. I mean he told some guy he's known all of three days that he feels a little panicky when he's not around. That is just flat out STALKERISH. It's like for God's sake have some self respect! I mean he doesn't understand why the girls aren't fawning over Marcus... maybe it's because they have some dignity and self-control. It's not the type of thing that would make me stop liking someone in general but it's definitely a little off putting not to mention I don't think everyone is "Bad-mouthing" Charlie. To me it seemed the board concensus was that he was being cute but a little naive... which he is.

 

[Sbaraglia]

Ummmmmm or people could be saying Charlie is a tad creepy becausee... he is. I mean he told some guy he's known all of three days that he feels a little panicky when he's not around. That is just flat out STALKERISH. It's like for God's sake have some self respect! I mean he doesn't understand why the girls aren't fawning over Marcus... maybe it's because they have some dignity and self-control. It's not the type of thing that would make me stop liking someone in general but it's definitely a little off putting not to mention I don't think everyone is "Bad-mouthing" Charlie. To me it seemed the board concensus was that he was being cute but a little naive... which he is.

I can see how the panicky thing could seem pathetic - but on the other hand they're out there trying to find their way through minefields of challenges, immunities, votes, alliances...so to have Charlie, a very cute, smaller guy worship you and commit himself to you with every breathless breath - well, out there in Gabon it might be a pretty welcome thing. I think it's interesting that Marcus picked Charlie rather than Dan to be on the team, and has pursued the alliance with Charlie just as avidly as Charlie has...and I think it's interesting that Marcus noted in his solo with the camera crew that Charlie is very goodlooking - well, I think Marcus may have a good dose of bi in him, and Charlie's adoration might be welcome on several levels. If we start seeing Charlie giving Marcus back rubs and Marcus smiling and moaning...! On Charlie's behalf, forging an ironclad alliance with Marcus is very smart. I can seee them making it to the final four, at which point Charlie could choose a million dollars over his "straight" crush.... At any rate, Marcus would be an idiot to give up Charlie before then, given that Charlie is smart and hardworking and strong enough, and devoted to Marcus.

Re the group "bad-mouthing", maybe I am a bit overprotective of my Charlie...I get a bit panicky when he's criticized...

 

[Spiff]

..and I think it's interesting that Marcus noted in his solo with the camera crew that Charlie is very goodlooking - well, I think Marcus may have a good dose of bi in him, and Charlie's adoration might be welcome on several levels.

You can wish, but I don't think so. Marcus was just being a true gentleman while saying that he doesn't swing that way. To me he comes across as a straight guy that is so secure with his sexuality that he has no qualms about saying another guy is good-looking.

 

[falconfan]

I can see how the panicky thing could seem pathetic - but on the other hand they're out there trying to find their way through minefields of challenges, immunities, votes, alliances...so to have Charlie, a very cute, smaller guy worship you and commit himself to you with every breathless breath - well, out there in Gabon it might be a pretty welcome thing. I think it's interesting that Marcus picked Charlie rather than Dan to be on the team, and has pursued the alliance with Charlie just as avidly as Charlie has...and I think it's interesting that Marcus noted in his solo with the camera crew that Charlie is very goodlooking - well, I think Marcus may have a good dose of bi in him, and Charlie's adoration might be welcome on several levels. If we start seeing Charlie giving Marcus back rubs and Marcus smiling and moaning...! On Charlie's behalf, forging an ironclad alliance with Marcus is very smart. I can seee them making it to the final four, at which point Charlie could choose a million dollars over his "straight" crush.... At any rate, Marcus would be an idiot to give up Charlie before then, given that Charlie is smart and hardworking and strong enough, and devoted to Marcus.

Dude lol Marcus has been very courteous and simply noted what all men straight/gay/bi are capable of... whether another man is hot or not. (And kudos to him because most straight men are too afraid to admit that they can tell if a guy is hot.) And he said in a very adult way that it was nothign against Charlie he's just not gay. I don't think that translates to probably bi as much as simply polite and mature.

As for him being as "enthuastic" about an alliance with Charlie well DUH. The man is fawning all over him why would you not take someone who's that loyal to you. I mean he's an amazing resource for Marcus to use.

 

[joesman]

I don't think Charlie will be as clever or devious as Todd, but who knows. We have not seen enough of him to know his true self. I think his attraction to Marcus is a natural thing for him. He was chosen and not last, but chosen by a very handsome man who may or may not have an attraction of his own. Marcus plays it right he will have an ally for the duration, and then again vice versa.

So far I like Charlie and Marcus, Dan, Mattie (always a Mattie), the older guy, and the black lady on the losing team thus far.

At this point (and things and feelings change all the time) I am all for a Charlie/Marcus final 2. Now that would be hot.

 

[jjlover]

I like him better than Todd, too. Todd had an alliance, but was annoying even to them. Charlie is more engrained into the group. And it is nice to see Markus be so comfortable around Charlie. If only there were more guys like him in the 'real' world.

 

[GanymedeATL]

I REALLY like Charlie and Marcus! Marcus has been in my place of employment before, and he's pretty hot and nice in person. I can totally see why Charlie's a little head over heels (then again, I usually fall for a guy pretty quickly while away from home...and Gabon's certainly away fro home for Charlie) and I think it could help both guys' games to form an early alliance that seems that strong.
The tribe selections were awesomely bad, and I think I bonded with Charlie when he noted the other tribe's poor selecting process. As for why he nor Marcus chose Dan? No idea. Charlie was standing right next to Marcus prior to Marcus getting picked and was still wearing a jacket, which adds bulk, and probably gave off a friendly vibe (and his intro gave away his sexuality, so Marcus knew what he was getting into,IMO), whereas Dan had that creepy 'finding himself' intro. Whatever happens, I like the alliance of four plus Bob (who is plenty awesome!) and hope they go far.
Dan's adventures on Exile Island were ridiculous! Not the sharpest tool in the shed, BUT SO easy on the eyes! Marcus is more my type, but Dan would do. WTF was his tribe thinking in maybe picking him off? They need to maybe win a challenge before losing a strong competitor... which they had already done with Michelle. She may not have been cheerful and friendly, but she did better than the other women on her team (I'm looking at YOU , Gold Medal winner!), and might have put them over the top in the second immunity challenge.
And what was UP with Crystal's performance in the first challenge? If it were me, after that evidence of my athletic 'prowess' I would NEVER admit that I was once an Olympic medalist! Unless she wants Fang to erupt in laughter!
And doesn't Jeff ALWAYs try to force someone to cop to being a leader verry season, so that they have a target on them? I didn't see this time to be much different. Not that I care much. I just want Dan to survive a merge...and maybe attempt to woo Charlie away from Marcus. Now, THAT would be a twist.

 

[Eeyore]

Just wanted to throw my two cents in.


As I usually do when watching this show, I pick a couple people from the start based solely on the small bio and intro video posted online, before watching even the first minute of the show. Just keeps things interesting for me to see how my pick "evolves" on screen, for better or worse.


This season, my picks were Charlie and Susie. Can't really tell you why I picked either one, other than the fact that they both seemed the type to be able to go far if they make the right choices.

As to Charlie's crush, I find it kinda cute, and part of me admires the guy for being bold enough to let Marcus know how he feels. That's just my perspective on it, looking back on a few missed opportunities.

As far as Susie goes, she hasn't gotten much camera time yet, and that's not always a bad thing. I'll start getting worried if she gets a dramatic increase in camera time.

 

[Sbaraglia]

Also, let's get real. Marcus is most likely 100% straight. Why do you guys always do this? The queer community always complains that straight men are intolerant (which is often true) and whenever you find the rare straight guy who seems secure in his masculinity, wonderfully open-minded, and not a complete asshole, you always go, "Oh he must be bi or gay." Please. It's bad enough that heterosexist society sees male bonding as inherently transgressive. Must we add to that by assuming a guy can't just be friends with/like/find another guy attractive without being gay or bi himself? How is this progress?

Well, I wasn't going to say anything - !! - I don't want to drag this thread off topic, 'cause I love Survivor and want to chatter about Survivor, not politics or whatever - BUT! - I do find it interesting that in the initial batch of reactions to the first episode there was a round of embarrassment over the openly gay guy, and a round of crush on the "straight" guy - and most interesting of all was the reaction to the suggestion that Marcus might not be 100% straight - like it was an insult to consider the possibility! (Maybe my life experience is unique, but I find that most 100% straight guys...aren't.) I won't comment on the "you guys"...

Anyway, we'll see how things unfold...but if there IS a Charlie-on-Marcus back-rub, I want some !!!

 

[Sbaraglia]

Way to miss the point entirely. Wow.

Because I don't agree? I think the shoe might be on the other foot...

I think there is too much worship of the "100% straight" guy (which bi guys benefit from as well, and the thought of losing that status might be unpleasant; in addition, the "you guys" portion of the bi guy is just as prone to worship the "truly straight"), and too much shame over the openly gay guy (the more "straight-acting" he is, the more approval is given him). I also think there is a willingness to believe in 100% straight guys that is as silly as many women's willingness to believe that while the evidence shows that most men cheat, theirs don't. I can understand the need of a woman to believe her man is different; I don't understand why gay (or bi) men would need to believe a guy is 100% straight...or why they would see the suggestion that he might not be 100% as an insult to him, or as evidence that gay men are pathetically trying to see this pure, noble beast as being just as low and base as "we" are. If Charlie were a girl, would it be just as sad and revolting to consider that Marcus might be interested? And would "her" behavior seem as embarrassing? We acknowledge that straight men are often tantalized (stiffened) by eyelash-fluttering, sighing, adoring hot chicks; why is it so hard to believe that Marcus might be a bit...stirred, shall we say, by Charlie's open lust?

Anyway, two separate issues: 1) Charlie's gushing and 2) Marcus's sexuality. You can think Charlie was over the top, but still wonder about Marcus. And it's neither an insult to Marcus nor a sign of "you guys" dragging the noble stallion down...

Whatever....let's wait and see what transpires...

As for Marcus being in the driver's seat re the alliance, and Charlie making a mistake in being overly compliant...Rob and Amber, anyone?

 

[falconfan]

and most interesting of all was the reaction to the suggestion that Marcus might not be 100% straight - like it was an insult to consider the possibility! (Maybe my life experience is unique, but I find that most 100% straight guys...aren't.) I won't comment on the "you guys"...

I don't think Nik implied there was anything "insulting" about it. I think he just said cery simply, and accurately, that people should stop assuming every straight person who doesn't act like a complete ass about sexuality issues is gay or bi. It only makes sense considering the reason most men react the way they do is a fear that they're going to be thought of as "gay." So to show that's really what people will think adn not some dumb over simplistic delusion only encourages bad behavior to continue.

 

[Sbaraglia]

So much internalized homophobia that folks aren't even aware of..."bad behavior", hm? Is is "bad behavior" to assume that everyone is straight until proven gay, as straights do? Why is it bad to assume that guys are gay or bi, but ok to assume they're straight? Ah, we could go on and on, but I give up. I'm not saying anyone is evil, just that there's a lot of stuff we're fed from birth that we need to confront and fight, because it isn't healthy to look down on ourselves, or to be enablers for those who do. Oh well. I don't want to get voted off the show, so I'll shut up.

P.S. To answer in advance: yeah, I know Marcus said he's straight so it's "wrong" to think he's lying. Would there be as much upset if a girl said she wasn't attracted to a guy, but some of us thought she really was? OK, now I'll shut up!

 

[falconfan]

If Charlie were a girl, would it be just as sad and revolting to consider that Marcus might be interested? And would "her" behavior seem as embarrassing?

YES!!!! They'd still be creepy and stalkerish and lacking any sense of self respect only they'd probably be worse because he'd think he had a chance. I'd lay you odds that if Charlie was a girl we'd all be calling him a slut by now.

We acknowledge that straight men are often tantalized (stiffened) by eyelash-fluttering, sighing, adoring hot chicks; why is it so hard to believe that Marcus might be a bit...stirred, shall we say, by Charlie's open lust?

Anyway, two separate issues: 1) Charlie's gushing and 2) Marcus's sexuality. You can think Charlie was over the top, but still wonder about Marcus. And it's neither an insult to Marcus nor a sign of "you guys" dragging the noble stallion down...

Dude I really think your response to all this is really disproportionate. Nik never said anything about being gay makes you less of a man or gay men should be more straight acting he said (accurately) that it's very immature to assume any man who's comfortable enough to talk about homosexuality in a mature fashion must be gay. The idea that Marcus will just be gya because Charlie's hitting on him is silly. Yes striaght men react when females "tantalize" them becuase, and get this, THEY'RE FEMALES. Just because some woman came up and started flirting with me wouldn't make me straight all of a sudden. I mean come on. If he says he's straight than he is straigh. He's given no indication that he's not. He's just been a nice guy and good for him.

Also your tangent on fidelity makes little sense. Of course someone should assume their partner is loyal to them.... they swore to be. I have no idea what statistics you're referring to but that doesn't change the fact that you know someone, love someone, are loyal to that person, and expect loyalty in return. And it's not just "women" either. I think everyone expects that in a relationship.

As for Marcus being in the driver's seat re the alliance, and Charlie making a mistake in being overly compliant...Rob and Amber, anyone?

Was an entirely different situation. Rob was disliked so much that they'd rather give it to Amber. I really don't think Marcus has shown anythign that would make me assume he can inspire that level of contempt. Plus Survivor doesn't have a history of this. More often than not the prize goes to the "master mind" of an alliance over their grunts. (Parvarti, Todd, Earl, Yul, Aras, Tom etc)

 

[Sbaraglia]

Was an entirely different situation. Rob was disliked so much that they'd rather give it to Amber. I really don't think Marcus has shown anythign that would make me assume he can inspire that level of contempt. Plus Survivor doesn't have a history of this. More often than not the prize goes to the "master mind" of an alliance over their grunts. (Parvarti, Todd, Earl, Yul, Aras, Tom etc)

This is true...but still, not a bad strategy to get to the finals - and like I said, near the end Charlie may have a chance to choose between his heart and his wallet, and vote Marcus off. Which I can definitely imagine if their present alliance lasts til close to the end - "Marcus is such a threat, he'll win every individual immunity challenge, we have to get rid of him before it's too late!"

 

[LiquidSky]

I think he just said cery simply, and accurately, that people should stop assuming every straight person who doesn't act like a complete ass about sexuality issues is gay or bi.

Agreed. Three of my best friends are straight guys. 100% straight and gay friendly.

 

[falconfan]

So much internalized homophobia that folks aren't even aware of..."bad behavior", hm? Is is "bad behavior" to assume that everyone is straight until proven gay, as straights do? Why is it bad to assume that guys are gay or bi, but ok to assume they're straight?

Law of averages? I mean it's not "bad" to assume everyone you meet is gay just dumb. Most people are straight. That's just plain statistics. SO yeah I have a tendency to assume people are straight unless they give me reason to believe otherwise. Much like I assume people are right handed unless I see otherwise or they tell me otherwise. I COULD assume everyone is gay but I don't like to frequently be wrong so I don't.

Ah, we could go on and on, but I give up. I'm not saying anyone is evil, just that there's a lot of stuff we're fed from birth that we need to confront and fight, because it isn't healthy to look down on ourselves, or to be enablers for those who do. Oh well. I don't want to get voted off the show, so I'll shut up.

DUDE no on in this thread said anywhere that being gay is "bad" or "worse" or being straight is "good." I don't know where you're pulling all this crap from. No one was looking down on themselves or homosexuality. We're simply noting that not everyone is gay and that by claiming all tolerate people must be gay people just wind up reinforcing negative intolerant behavior.

P.S. To answer in advance: yeah, I know Marcus said he's straight so it's "wrong" to think he's lying. Would there be as much upset if a girl said she wasn't attracted to a guy, but some of us thought she really was? OK, now I'll shut up!

Yes it is wrong. When someone tells you their sexuality you take their word. Are you trying to tell me you wouldn't want to punch someone in the face if they were trying to say you weren't REALLY gay. If someone says they're straight or gay they do so for a reason, most likely because it's true. But even if it's not true forcefully trying to out someone when you may or may not be right helps no one. No one at all. If anything it's more traumatic and likely to cause a person to deny and resent his/her own sexuality even more.

AND you're comparison to one of the girls liking Marcus is flawed. If say I said Corrine liked Marcus you are correct to say people wouldn't be as quick to call me stupid... because she's straight. Because there's grounds to actually believe that she would be. No one is "upset" by the idea that Marcus might like Charlie romantically. We are however logical individuals who noted such an idea makes no sense.

 

[falconfan]

This is true...but still, not a bad strategy to get to the finals - and like I said, near the end Charlie may have a chance to choose between his heart and his wallet, and vote Marcus off. Which I can definitely imagine if their present alliance lasts til close to the end - "Marcus is such a threat, he'll win every individual immunity challenge, we have to get rid of him before it's too late!"

It's really too early for this. In all likelihood there'll be a tribe shake up and these same four people won't even be on the same tribe anymore. I don't think at this stage you can really plan for end game too heavily. But it is intelligent for someone like Marcus to keep other strong targets who people can't take to jury (like Bob).

 

[falconfan]

Brilliant Observations.

And How Disappointing The Responses Are To Your Most Prescient Comments. It Always Seems There Are Those Who Rather Than Find The Positive To Which To Respond - Always Seek The Path Of Disagreement. And How Equally Unfortunate That Such Disagreement Too Often Takes The Form Of A Disconcerting Dismissive Arrogance.

What are you gentlemen talking about? No one in this thread "worshiped" "straight acting" men or said that being straight was better than being gay. You're pulling things no one in this thread has said out of thin air or more likely out of your own misconceptions of what homosexuality is. The inferences that your making (that bi men are "straighter" or that athleticism is akin to straightness or that things that are considered "masculine" are by nature not considered "gay" but "straight") only showcase the effectiveness of the homophobic undertones in society which can apparently convince even homosexuals themselves of the very untrue steroetype that "gayness" is naturally divorced from "manliness".

The fact you try to gauge straightness in percents and the use of words like "straight acting" (Which is completely without meaning unless one buys into the offensive notions that straight men intrinsically act different than gay men) only show a susceptibility to vulgar and empty stereotypes about homosexuality. They show an unfair expectation of all men who consider themselves to be gay. Attempts to try and shame men into acting a "gay" way are in themselves shameful because there is no gay way to do things. Just because a man doesn't alter his behavior to fit certain stereotypes about what is or is not gay doesn't in any way mean that person is ashamed of his own "homosexuality." It means merely that it does naturally occur or appeal to that individual to fit those stereotypes. And if your implication is that all gay men who exhibit the actions which you consider "straight-acting" MUST be suffering some degree of self-loathing and only acting in this "straight" way because they are suppressing certain innate gay impulses than what you're saying is that all gay men have an naturally occurring propensity to gravitate towards the set of actions/preferences that the media has characterized as "gay." And let me tell you that is one of the most inaccurate, old fashioned, homophobic lines of thought which I have ever encountered.

Bottom line to all this is so...
Marcus is not gay. If he was well that would be great because I'd have a chance to sleep with him. However he is not. I know he's not because he's said that he's not. We have no reason to disbelieve this statement.

He picked Charlie because he was trying to construct a physically strong team and Charlie had a suit jacket that probably added 20 lbs to his scrawny frame not because of some secret gay desire.

He said he's straight because he is not because of some internalized homophobia that would prevent him to copping to being gay or bi on national TV.

He's nice to Charlie because he's a nice guy not because he secretly lusts after male to male contact.

So I leave with this advice if there's an obvious answer don't go concocting random theories...

Marge: I guess it's never the most likely suspect.
Lisa: Actually, Mom, in 95% of cases, it is. The rest of the time,
it's usually some deranged lunatic who did it for no reason.

 

[aijalon18]

Surprisingly Nik, I completely agree with you. Your reasoning for calling Charlie an idiot is exactly why I didn't like him. I just couldnt articulate it as well as you do. It's like he finally was validated by the cool people so now he wants to be act superior. And you're right it really is sad.

 

[aijalon18]

Why are you surprised, babe? You and I were totally in sync early in the BB10 thread when Steven was being racist and I totally agreed with all your points back then on race and gender. We only parted ways later on when I thought you were...not so correct about other things. LOL.

But yeah, I'm glad we agree on this one. I rewatched the episode with a friend and Charlie is a moron. And he's totally willing to peddle the same stereotype about "masculine, strong men" that Jess Probst and a dominant hetero-sexist culture perpetuates, and (ironically) the same stereotypes that some misguided people in this thread are defending Charlie against! LMAO!

It's like rain on your wedding day
It's a free ride when you've already paid
It's some good advice, that you just can't take
And who would have thought, it figures...

I like how you worded that. "not so correct" lol. Probst is such a stupid asshole. I still can't over how he basically forced them into an argument and forced clueless GC into being "leader." But GC is a dumbass for allowing Jeff to pull that shit. Why don't these idiots ever tell Jeff to stfu and stop manipulating the game? He's worse than TJ Lavin on Real World challenge. I thought the title was host, not shit-stirrer.

Back to Charlie I'm hoping that fool gets it together. A part of me is rooting for him being the only gay and all but I seriously doubt he will shape up. i try to be optimistic. But he is in lala land. He's prolly lost all interest in winning and is more interested in spending as much time with Marcus as possible. I know this is mean but I'm kinda looking forward to a point when Marcus is forced to choose btwn Charlie and someone else and he chooses the other person.

BTW it was funny you said "what rubbish!" in another post.