Survivor Samoa

[falconfan]

Oh yes, I'm sure they have high hopes for obvious cannon fodder like Marissa.

Hell yeah. They had very high hopes for Ms. Sunshine Rainbow. I'm sure had she lasted for a while there's be more than a few "Soup" moments for her.

You may not think it builds the "I'm a great player" narrative -- and I don't think it's that great either -- but others will. I bet you anything on the Reunion Show, Jeff will shower him with undeserving praise for being a strategist and a mastermind, and he will cite the finding of the idol -- with no clues no less (NO CLUES!) -- as a prime example of that. The show is already featuring more than one shot of Russell crowing about how he found the idol with no clues (seriously NO CLUES!) and implying how brilliant he is by showing Yazmine's inability to even look in the same tree (despite having a clue), and Jaison also voice-overing how Russell found it with no clues (omigod, NO CLUES people! Think of that! Isn't that brilliant??!)

Of course people will react that way. Doesn't mean it didn't happen. Doesn't mean production by day 6 with their star pupil performing so well without interference, assuming their star was so firmly hitched up to his wagon, would feel compelled to tell him where it is because

OK I'll give him that, although his man-crush on Ozzy -- which was totally and embarrassingly legitimate -- and Ozzy's influence over Amanda, meant that Erik was likely never in serious danger of going home that week.

Voting out the only person who posed any kind of challenge threat -- and who seemed to have the most friends/least enemies on the jury -- is fucking obvious. It hardly makes you a great player. Add to that the fact that three people were already voting that way so he really did nothing to orchestrate that move and yeah, I don't see how this credits him in any way.

As obvious as say... NOT GIVING UP IMMUNITY ONE CHALLENGE AWAY FROM THE FINAL 3?

Everyone was already voting out Jason, and Erik didn't gain ANY social capital at all, because from then on, he had to win challenges to stay in the game (James was removed due to injury and had Erik not one the next immunity, he would have been voted out before Amanda/Alexis) and in fact they were actively plotting his demise hence the relinquished immunity move.

For godsakes, Erik's lack of gameplay was so acknowledged -- even by Erik himself -- that Cirie/Natalie were able to exploit that as a "reason" why he should give up immunity! When he was talking to Natalie he outright said that he knew he hadn't done anything to earn the jury's respect with gameplay moves.

You're saying this all assuming that what you saw was the sole reality. Which is EXACTLY my point. You raise no objection or even consider that maybe it wasn't "Cirie and Natalie" exploiting him to give up immunity but production manipulating him to be perceptive to certain arguments or hinting to Cirie and Natalie what arguments he was most tuned into. I don't think that happened but you have just as much reason to believe it did as to believe that Russel was pointed towards the idol. The major difference is one cast off you love and the other you hate. You're human my dear like all of us no one will think less of you if you admit that now and then you may be influenced by emotion and personal preference as we all are. I mean your gut suspicions are what they are btu that's all they are and as you sit around trying to justify them....

Honestly I think you're looking at this wrong. From a production standpoint I'd have LOVED to save Betsy week two (now that I know Survivor 20 was scheduled back to back I'm positive it was a schedule issue) that way you could build this war between them and have either a hero or a villain at the end of it. I just don't see the tampering. I don't see them as so desperate as to feel the NEED to hang onto him despite him being in NO danger. It doesn't make sense.

 

[falconfan]

Douche was annoying but he really was one of the only parts of Tocantins that got people talking. I remember those primetime recaps on Yahoo.com were always about Coach and nothing else. Also, he definitely was not the reason why Tocantins' ratings were lower because the ratings have been eroding naturally with almost every season since Palau.

Out of the last ten seasons, China was the only one that finished with more viewers than the preceding season. And the ratings went back to a decline for Micronesia (which, hell, was even a half All-Stars), Gabon and Tocantins. Overall, Tocantins lost less than a million viewers compared to Gabon so, even though I thought it was a pretty boring season myself, I can't say it doing worse in the ratings was any fault of the show rather than the fact that people have been gradually losing interest in Survivor for the last four or five years anyway.

But Coach didn't make anything more relevant. He didn't help them win ratings. He didn't do a damn thing and to reinvent or hype of the series. As for reading the ratings I must concede with the shifting TV landscape it's difficult to make any generalization other than that they've been loosing viewership steadily.

But what bothers me here is that no one is addressing one of my main points they didn't NEED to give him immunity! He was secure. He was giving them the talking points you're convinced they desperately seek. There's a complete lack of logic.

 

[falconfan]

Exactly. Falconfan I really don't think you're understanding my argument. I know you love the show beyond all reason, but Survivor is IRRELEVANT in terms of pop-culture and it has zero cool factor. This isn't about raw ratings. College students and the upper 20's/early 30's set in "desired" cities and states (prized by advertisers and those seeking industry cred) talk about shows with disparate ratings but high cool factors like Lost and 30 Rock. For its first two seasons, Survivor captured the cultural zeitgeist, but since then it has fallen out of fashion (as these things tend to do). It still has decent ratings but it is no longer buzzed about. No one I knew at Yale and Columbia watched this show. Not a single person (not even the kid whose dad was Mark Burnett's entertainment lawyer who gave me so much scoop on the show!) and no that had nothing to do with Ivy League snobbery since some of these people watched some really stupid (but culturally relevant) shows. Very few people in the demos I mentioned can name ANY winner/player besides Richard Hatch and Colby.

But you know what name (sadly) a lot of these people have heard of? COACH! He got the show tons of coverage in young skewing magazines, online blogs and parody shows. You've shown that you're sometimes naive about television production and marketing, but believe me, these shows crave that kind of relevance (and Probst has said as much in interviews over the years, that he wants the show to return to something people talk about). They consider last season a success of a different kind -- a return to cultural relevance because of the dog and pony show that was Coach. And as despressing as that is, believe me they want to repeat that with Russell. And that's why he was cast and yes, they knew it before hand.

They didn't have to wait to see how he would act on the show. They knew what his narrative would be inasmuch as they can predict, exploit, control and yes, manipulate. You'll see I disagreed with blacksyringe that the entire show was scripted (I agree with you, that would be too difficult a secret to keep), and that means if the players really wanted to vote Russell out and executed it, there's nothing the producers can do about it. But they do their best to stack the odds for the kind of show they want to produce early on (and if that includes placing an idol for someone to find, or leading him there, they'll do it) and the kind of show they want to produce -- at least for a while -- is the Russell Show. I don't know if it's going to pay off for them in terms of pop culture relevance, but I can see how a cynical producer would arrive at that calculation after the pop gift that was Coach.

Because make no mistake, the Season of Russell coming after the Season of Coach is no coincidence.

I know what you're saying and understand just fine. I think it lacks any real awareness of what I'm saying or any acknowledgment of the issues in the show. I think it belies a lot on the backs of the producers putting all their chips on Russel. They wouldn't and don't do that. Yasmine is a fucking nutcase. Ben is plenty villainy. Shambo is a moron bound to put her foot in her motuh several times and these are just the few we've seen. Not to mention Russel didn't need the idol. Plus you're failing to acknowledge, despite ample evidence, it's really nto that improbable finding the idol.

 

[falconfan]

As slipintothefog pointed out, the ratings have been steadily eroding for a while. This is not because of Coach. He gave them a kind of pop-culture relevance they haven't had in YEARS -- it doesn't mean more people are necessarily watching, but more people from certain demos are checking out those clips on youtube and such because people were talking about Coach (college kids were even postings videos of his asshattery on facebook!) -- and it seems to me that they want to repeat that with Russell. Obviously I hope they fail since I dislike both Coach and Russell..

Darling, this show is on CBS. If they were overly concerned with crunching the 20something demographic they wouldn't have 3 CSIs, 2 NCISes, The Amazing Race, Big Bang Theory, and be taking on shows geared towards older viewers for the fall (Good Wife and Medium). Viacom has it's own network devoted entirely to puling in that age group, CW. Why spend all that money promoting The Vampire Diaries at 8pm Thursday jsut to try and peal those viewers away to another thing you own? CBS had made a living in recent years courting the older viewers the other major networks shun. Why do you think they always have so many Levitra ads?

Anyway, I've said all I care to say about this. Falconfan should feel free to reply if he wants to, but can we talk about something else after that? LOL. Obviously we're not going to agree on this and I'd much rather save my energy for the one crazy person in a thread in the CE&P section who doesn't think child rape is a big deal.

Talk about whatever you'd like dear.

 

[Aratron]

What? Am I seeing well? Nik and falconfan arguing? lol

season 20 is going to be shoot in Samoa

And the producers also said that s19 filming was over and 20 not yet there

It already was. But the producers have still tons of materials there after the season ends.

Anyway, the rumored cast for next season is:

Spoiler

10 women, 10 men...

Danielle, Jerri, Cirie, Candice, Sugar, Sandra, Parvati, Courtney, Stephanie, Amanda

Tyson, Coach, JT, Randy, Russell, Rupert, James, Tom W., Colby, Boston Rob

It's going to be Villains vs. Heroes.

Natalie and Ozzy were alternates supposedly.

 

[slipintothefog]

Spoiler

Danielle, Jerri, Cirie, Candice, Sugar, Sandra, Parvati, Courtney, Stephanie, Amanda

Tyson, Coach, JT, Randy, Russell, Rupert, James, Tom W., Colby, Boston Rob

Spoiler

I hope Amanda makes it to the final tribal and implodes for the third time.

I'm glad Cirie, Sugar, Sandra and Courtney are back. I assume the Danielle in question is the one from Exile Island and, in that case, that's a pretty strange pick. I don't really care about any of the guys, but at least it won't be the Coach show this time... because of Rupert. The villains for the men are pretty easy to peg: Tyson, Douche, Randy, Russell and Boston Rob.

The girls are little harder to determine. Jerri and Candice were definitely cast as villains. Sugar was given an OTTP (over the top positive for those unfamiliar with Survivor Sucks' analysis of character editing) edit on Gabon and Sandra/Cirie were popular so they're all heroes. From there, it's a mess. Parv and Danielle are probably meant to be "villains" even though neither was that bad (and Parv was simply the flirt), and Courtney's snarky attitude makes me think she's supposed to a "villain" even though she was popular. Amanda being a "hero" if her alliance mates from China (Court) and Micronesia (Parv) are "villains" is nonsensical, and Stephenie is hard to peg because she had a good edit in Palau but a horrible edit in Guatemala. Very odd casting for the women given the season's theme.

 

[falconfan]

OK falconfan. I won't burst the bubble I know you need to maintain for the day you actually go on Survivor. I know you need to believe it's a pure game so you can do your thing. Carry on. Russell found the idol on his own. And Tribal Councils really last 10 minutes. And that music in the background really is just the natural music of the jungle.

That's so cute! You actually thought I'd let you get the last word. Clever little trick what posting this comment with no substance so I have nothing to directly object to and then a minute later sparking a new topic so if I were to reply to it I'd look petty. You forget however that I'm shameless . So while you're ferreting out the puppet masters who control the global media buzz by pulling the strings of Kanye and Russel I'll stop by and have the last word. Your serve, dear.

 

[falconfan]

Anyway back to the show, so is Russell gonna win or what? Black Russell I mean. I assume that segment of him talking about how he chose "comfort for the ladies" (ugh) while the guys talked about how stupid it was...I assume that's going to matter in the future? Either the guys will use it as a reason to vote him out, or the girls will side with him against the guys?

Or maybe it just means this is the Russell Show and it doesn't fucking matter?

It's hard to tell. There's been hints that Shambo is causing tension two weeks ago. There was footage about John being disliked during the pilot. Such false leads could just be around because the producers know they need to give at least a little airtime to Galu. I find it hard not to see Shambo going first or second from that tribe though. Beyond that who knows.

 

[falconfan]

^^ Falconfan Ima let you finish, but slipintothefog had one of the best posts of all time! OF ALL TIME!

Les Moonves made you say that didn't he? He felt it would keep you more relevant on the board huh?

 

[falconfan]

What? Am I seeing well? Nik and falconfan arguing? lol

We fight all the time if you look closely enouhg It's what keeps things spicy.

As for those spoilers... I'm not crazy about that possible cast but I didn't get some choices for Micronesia and that panned out well. I had heard the same rumor earlier about the theme which to me explained the promo editting this season.

 

[slipintothefog]

I just hope Survivor 20 doesn't have a delusional twat like Jenna Lewis around, campaigning to take out the previous winners, so that we can avoid Horsielle coming out of nowhere to win the game like Amber did.

 

[falconfan]

Perhaps we could just start a Survivor 20 thread? As someone who's been pissed about spoilers in old shows before I can understand that anger.

So in a vague statement..... I don't know that list seems odd. It has REALLY OLD and REALLY RECENT people and like nothing in between. (Quirked eyebrow) and as stated several people who've already done the show twice.

 

[falconfan]

^^ Are you implying that a media overlord might have intentionally led Aratron in the wrong direction spoiler-wise?

I like the idea of a Survivor 20 Spoilers and Rumors thread. Someone pure and innocent and untouched by the cynical world should start it. Falconfan?

I would but I fear I'd come under fire by absurdly cynical forces that couldn't help but assume that the creation of such a threat was only part of the CBS media conglomerates multi-tiered plan to increase relevance and buzz among the desired 20 something audience share.

If only professor Janelle was here to sort it out.

 

[slipintothefog]

I'll make the S20 thread right now if nobody else wants to do it. It's probably better to discuss Samoa here and I don't want to use spoiler tags for S20 in every post.

 

[wrestling lover]

THANK GOD BEN LEFT! So happy that Jaison called his ass out. Foa Foa are getting their asses beat in these challenges lol

Shambo? She is annoying! Why should the winning tribe be working all the time? If they want to do YOGA! LET THEM! You wasn't complaining when your old ass was swimming in the swamp and LOST! the fishing equipment! Ugh!

 

[Ekim23]

Oh yay a S20 rumors thread thats a good idea ...

 

[falconfan]

Is anyone else just excited that this weeks promo wasn't about Russel? Because I am.

 

[PATMAN]

Is anyone else just excited that this weeks promo wasn't about Russel? Because I am.

hahaha, Let's hope the episode follows suit!!!

 

[slipintothefog]

The editing on this show is so predictable... Galu gets screentime for the first time ever and, what a surprise, they lost the immunity challenge! But at least we know some of these people exist now. I kind of like Erik, whom I remembered because he wore that incredibly small black bathing suit in the previous episodes, so him getting the hidden idol is fine with me.

It's a little dumb that Galu Russell picked comfort to please the women in the last episode and then his tribe lost the challenge and he immediately turned around and targeted a woman. What was the point of picking the comfort then, genius?

Yasmin and her heels at tribal council... bitch is crazy, but I liked her. Kind of a shame that she got booted because she was one of the more interesting people on Galu so far.

 

[slipintothefog]

Judging by early photos, I would have thought Eric would be one of the better looking guys, but he's really NOT attractive to me at all. I'm actually finding Jon really appealing in an adorable/cute kinda way.

Yeah, the cast photos tend to be misleading. I actually thought Ben was attractive in his cast photo and then he looked like hell on the show. (And that was even before the racist comments came into play!)

I should get around to ranking the seasons myself. I'm pretty sure that Fiji would be dead last on my list, though, because it was the only season that felt like a chore to get through IMO. At least it had a good winner.