Talk with parents - worse than I would have imagined

[sixthson]

Um, you say "morally, emotionally, psychologically are other issues", yet your argument in this topic is entirely based on morality


Also, I never flame in this forum. I do that in CE&P.

Are you intentionally being obtuse?

Let me repeat it to you slowly and carefully. The OP wanted to know what to do about his parents and their attitude toward his sexuality and using money for his tuition as a weapon against him. With me so far?
Some, including yourself, feel that he should lie to them to get said monies from them.
I objected to the lying. Then, you and others, suggested that his parents were obligated to support him by paying for his college which justified the lying.
Now here is the part you seem to be missing: while I feel that morally they should show their son unconditional love and support, I do not feel they have a legal obligation to do so. Can you now understand the distinction I make between morally and legally? It's really not that complicated if you think about it.

Let me repeat--I believe his parents are wrong, but I also believe he is wrong to deceive them. Afterall, what price is he willing to pay for his dignity?

 

[TX-Beau]

Whether or not there is some "moral," hypothetical about parents and the educations of their children (my family believes that parents are "morally" bound to give their kids the best set of survival tools possible - but anyway) whether or not, the facts of this situation are, that the parents were perfectly fine with paying for the education of a straight child, but are not willing to pay for the education of a gay one - as punishment. Whatever the "moral" crap tossed around, that is the situation.

And yes in that circumstance the OP is for damn sure entitled to the same support his parents would give a straight son, so he needs to pragmatically deal until he gets that support, then all bets are off.

I fail to see where "legally," comes into it. The parents told him if he was gay he deserved less than they would NORMALLY AND INTENTIONALLY AND HAPPILY give a straight child.

Fuck that. Get the degree.

It's one thing to talk about hypothetical dignity and internet morality, but frankly, it would be stupid to climb up on a marble pedestal about this and fundamentally damage your own future prospects in what would amount to a pro forma show of ethics.

Yeah - I'd have NO problem living with myself.

 

[sixthson]

If he is entitled, let him sue them. See how far that gets him.

Morality has to do with right and wrong. The parents are doing wrong by him.
Entitlement has to do with rights, hence the lawsuit.

 

[TX-Beau]

Oh please, sue them or give up your degree?

Come on.

 

[Rolyo85]

Are you intentionally being obtuse?

Let me repeat it to you slowly and carefully. The OP wanted to know what to do about his parents and their attitude toward his sexuality and using money for his tuition as a weapon against him. With me so far?
Some, including yourself, feel that he should lie to them to get said monies from them.
I objected to the lying. Then, you and others, suggested that his parents were obligated to support him by paying for his college which justified the lying.
Now here is the part you seem to be missing: while I feel that morally they should show their son unconditional love and support, I do not feel they have a legal obligation to do so. Can you now understand the distinction I make between morally and legally? It's really not that complicated if you think about it.

Let me repeat--I believe his parents are wrong, but I also believe he is wrong to deceive them. Afterall, what price is he willing to pay for his dignity?

Let me answer your disgustingly condescending post by saying that you need to read what other people write more carefully. I never said anything about legal matters. I do not care about legal matters. I am talking exclusively about morality here. And so are you. I think his parents are morally obligated to help him with his education and that they are losing ALL high ground the moment they start extorting him with it, thus justifying him in protecting himself by lying to them. You started rambling about stooping to levels, and then added the "legal" aspect as if anyone had said anything about that.

Spare me your sarcasm next time, it's inadequate and you suck at it. TX said it very well, and your argument is very unclear at this point. "Lying is wrong. Fuck up your life because you shouldn't lie". Dafuq?

 

[TX-Beau]

All right boys back to your corners. This has become about a disagreement over advice which I suspect some parties have taken personally and not about advice to the OP.

To the OP this is very much a pick your battles kind of situation. You can either have that battle now, and feel very righteous and do damage to yourself, or you can have it in a year with your newly printed degree as credentials.

You choose, your life - I know what I'd do.

 

[TX-Beau]

Though I do have to say I have absolutely no idea how legality came to be moral or ethical. The ways you can unethically and immorally fuck someone over with the law are legion.

 

[sixthson]

I reread the original post and the OP is much kinder to his parents than anyone else here has been. He tries to understand where they are coming from even if he can't agree with them. He said he is also disgusted with the idea of lying to them for the next 3 years. The thread turned ugly and hostile toward the parents in post 10. The OP hasn't returned to say if he approves of such anger toward his parents.

 

[Rolyo85]

OP is his parents' child and he feels he owes them. It is understandable that he feels guilt for lying to them if they brought him up not to be a liar. That's a good thing. We, on the other hand, are not his parents' children, so we can see this for what it is.

 

[shainski]

This thread is too quickly becoming an "Us vs Them" kind of thing.

Let's take the gay out of it. In their own strange way, your parents are concerned for you in a way that they know. (Yes, it's distorted, but it is where they are coming from).

Do you know how your siblings feel about this topic? chances are they are more supportive. When the time comes to "come out", you may be better approaching them first. An ally won't hurt you.

You've got one year left of college. I would pursue that goal before i did anything else. I would have a plan for how i would get that last year even without parental support (student loans, jobs - whatever). But don't let that go - you are too close and it would be too unwise to let the degree slip away at this point.

Now let's try to look back at your parents. Let's change the scenario. What if they suspected you were involved with some kind of cult (the moonies, let's say). They are concerned for you because they have heard how these cults approach young people and work on their vulnerabilities. They are concerned that you are being brainwashed. What should they do to save you? (Well what would you suggest?)

You summer will go quickly. I don't think it's worth having this conversation with them right now. You are not going to change their minds in the time that is left - and if you leave, you won't have the time left to ever convince them. So you live your life the way you have lived your life over the past few years. Since you don't know how they know anything, they might just have a suspicion and are fishing because they wonder why you haven't brought home a girl yet.

Enjoy your last year of college. Make your parents proud of you. After you graduate, see if you can get your siblings on your side. And then when you do come out to your parents, alert your siblings ahead of time that you intend to do so. They may be your best advocates later on. (Now, i am assuming, of course, that your siblings are more "worldly" than your parents)

 

[bankside]

When the conditionality of a parent's love and support is clearly dependent on their homophobic attitudes, it is not moral to say "oh, it isn't their obligation. Accept being disowned."

That is just not right. It is far better to tell them what they want to hear, change the subject and say you're not involved with anyone because you're busy studying, and keep cashing the cheques until you graduate. Young people are trying to launch an independent life. Young gay people are under no obligation to put up with extra hardship than young straight people, least of all when the hardship is imposed deliberately by ignorant parents. If their love can be conditional on your sexuality, your honesty can be conditional too.

I'm sorry your parents are lacking in character in such a basic way as to hold your future hostage to their prejudices. Humour them and plan to move on. One day there is hope that they will be embarrassed by their ignorance. In the mean time, keep working on your education and career. Their right to know how you really feel is actually a privilege, and they have abused it badly.

 

[Dephira]

Wow I didn't expect this thread to have so many replies when I came back. Thank you to everyone who chipped in with their advice or some kind words.

I would not take it for granted that your parents have spied on you, e.g. by reading your e-mails and/or chatlogs, as you have told us that you are open to anyone at your college.

So it is well-known to anyone at the college that the student Dephira (= the guy Dephira from the small city X) is gay / has gay friends (etc.). Likely (?) / maybe other people from your hometown are also at this college, or have cousins / brothers etc. who are a student over there (etc.). Don't rule out the possibility that your parents have heard the news because other people in their hometown (or relatives of them) have told it to them.

It seems to me that your parents have very peculiar ideas what it means if a guy is gay, and how to interact with gay people. Surely, there are more gay guys living and working in this hometown. Are your parents reli-fundi's?

I tend to advise you that you don't waste too much time to discuss with them when you have the idea that they are reli-fundi christians, and that their ideas about gay people are based on the ideas of reli-fundi christians. Reli-fundi christians are brainwashed and it has no sense to discuss / debate with brainwashed people.

How do you see your future? Keeping tight contact with these narrow-minded members of your family, or building up your own life? I tend to think that you cannot combine both of them, unless your family will change alot of their ideas / opinions?

I tend to agree with the advice of others. Tell them that there are organisations (like PFLAG) who can provide them with alot of info, stop talking with them about your friends and be 'flexible' about the 'promise' you made to them that you are not anymore allowed to have contact with other gays. Or tell them something like 'I will try to do my best', and make clear to them that you don't want to talk much about this topic.

It seems to me that your parents are homophobes, and I would keep the contact with them as minimal as possible. There is no need for you to 'make them happy' when they are homophobes (and/or reli-fundi christians with a brainwashed mind), so try to avoid the topic as much as possible during the next three months.

I know I won't stop hanging out with someone who's my friend just because they happen to be gay. Yap & ofcourse, and most straight guys of around your age have opinions similar to your ideas.

Any idea about the reaction of your parents when they would find out that a local girl / a girl at your college was pregnant because you had unprotected sex with her?

Try to find a balance that they keep giving you money to finish your education (did they make a promise to you that they should do that for your whole education?), and that you don't need to ly too much to them.

Feel free to react.

Take care & good luck.

Unfortunately I pretty much have no other choice but to believe the spying thing. My parents don't live in the US and don't speak a word of English; I went out of the country for college and nobody from my high school came anywhere close to me after I was finished with high school, and I'm barely in contact with any of them any more, let alone enough to let them know that I'm gay. Because of this PFLAG is also not really an option though I will look around for a similar organization in my home country.

My parents are certainly not reli-fundis as religion plays next to no role in our family. Their reaction I think stems from a deep-seated ignorance much more than some sort of religious reaction. I would say they're just somewhat narrow-minded in general. For example, if someone in my family came home with a partner of a different race, I'm sure my mum would disapprove of this as well. My father, while my mum was out of the room, told me that this issue wasn't about homosexuality-at least for him-but rather about him being worried about my health. While this still means that he has a very skewed view of what gay life is like, it did seem to me like a reaction that was a lot easier to stomach than my mother's.

Parents are only human and like all of us are ignorant of any number of issues. Parents sometimes speak in generalities to, or in front of their children, as a preventative, cautionary admonition if they feel their child is on the fence about something.

Many people project that gays have difficulties that are insurmountable. No parent wants their child to have to face any difficulty. From that position and from the position of ignorance regarding homosexuality in general they have arrived at erroneous conclusions and unknowingly gave you cause for concern not about who you are, but who they are.

At least half of what they said was just hot air and the rest can be educated away. My guess is they feel justified saying what they said, thinking it was for your own good. They don't want to hurt you. In any case, you won't know until you come out and they have a chance to educate themselves and make amends for hurting you. The choice is yours as whether or not you wish to remain ill at ease until you graduate. If this weighs so heavily upon you that you have difficulty coping take it to a therapist rather than allowing it to affect your grades. Take care of yourself.

I believe that this is a big part of it and that they are very concerned about my future right now; how much of it can be educated away I'm not sure right now, because their reaction during the talk was very dogmatic, but granted it was the first time the subject had ever come up. Given this, I think I'll have to wait for a while before I can really tell how much they are willing to talk.

I have always stated that parents have the inescapable duty to take care of their children and support them. That includes not only the financial side, but also emotionally. What they are doing right now is projecting their own bigotry on you instead of seeing you and trusting you. That's their problem, and it's also a failure on their part as parents.

You owe them NOTHING in this regard. You are who you are, and if they think it's wrong, frankly, they can go jump off a cliff for all you should care. Lie to them with an open honest face, finish your degree, and in the mean time hunt for jobs. They tipped their hand by threatening to not let you go back. That shows that they care more about their own fobias than about your future. That should tell you a LOT about those people and about how quickly you need to become independent from them.

I have zero sympathy for them in this situation. There is no guilt in protecting yourself. You owe it to yourself to make something of your life, and you will never achieve that if you are dragged back by ignorant parents or your guilt for lying to them.


As for the whole educating them thing - it will not work until you are free of them. Obviously they have no respect for you as an equal, so why should they care about anything you say on the subject? You're OBVIOUSLY weak and impressionable, and the evil gays have corrupted you. The only way you will teach them anything is by getting away and building a great life for yourself. If they want to be part of it, they're welcome. If not, well, like I said - their failure, not yours.

If I'm honest with myself, I think this is probably what I was thinking before making the thread, and the advice I was somewhat looking for. At least rationally, I had always told myself that if necessary, I would cut off my parents should they be uncomfortable with my sexuality to a degree that compromised my life. Thinking about it now that it actually seems like a real option is a lot more scary however.

Yes and lots of us didn't get our degrees because we were scratching out survival. The OP has a right to expect the support his parents would give to a straight child.

His parents have changed the rules for that support - i.e. he's not gay, just a victim of predatory faggots, he's not to become gay, and if he doesn't agree he's out on his ass. More or less.

They've essentially told him that they control his life, he's not allowed to make any decisions they don't like, and he's not who he is - he's who they say he is - or else.

Normally I would agree that lying to your parents is not the way to go, but - there is an exception to every rule. He knows exactly what his parents attitudes are, and it's possible that if the OP had told them - instead of however they found out, they might have reacted differently, but probably not.

He's one year away from his degree, and they are holding that threat over him deliberately.

The lying stops the moment there is no more threat - his parents control that, his parents set up the conditions.

My advice, lies of omission, don't talk about it, don't talk to them - unless college is a lot different than it was, you probably don't talk to them much anyway, just make happy noises at them and then tell them point blank once you've got a job - and DO NOT move back in with them for any reason, even if you have to live in a dive and work at a fast food joint until you can get on your feet. I worked at Starbucks and lived in a 2 bedroom shack with 6 other guys when I first moved to WEHO after college - until I got a better job, it can be done, you just have to find the motivation within yourself to be the guy you need to be to do that for yourself.

While I do want to give them the benefit of the doubt in that they're just worried about me I have to admit I haven't thought of it like this before; I don't think that parents financing their children's secondary education is an inherent right at all, but it's something that my parents are able to afford, and they have always expressed their willingness for this support for my older siblings as well as for me during my first three years. It does seem like they now suddenly changed their decision based on me being gay.

The parents paying for his education is a gift to him from them. It is not their oblgation and it is not his right to expect it.
He is an adult, he does not need their permisssion to live his life independently of them.

What the parents are doing is expressing 'conditional' love, if you can call it love at all. By lying to them, he stoops to their level of manipulation, in my opinion.

I agree, them paying for me is a gift and not an obligation. However, they were willing to pay before and financially, it is not an issue for my family. And I am quite hesitant about lying to them about this issue because I can sort of wrap my head around how in their minds they're protecting me from harm and thinking they're doing me good, no matter how twisted their views seem to me. Another issue at play here is that I definitely feel like they are not taking me seriously. Part of it might have to do with me being the smallest child, and the last one to "leave the nest" so to speak, but during our talk I definitely feel like they weren't treating me as an equal, but merely trying to inculcate in me in what a dangerous situation I was in and how they wanted to get me out of there, not really allowing for any arguments from my side.

Whether or not there is some "moral," hypothetical about parents and the educations of their children (my family believes that parents are "morally" bound to give their kids the best set of survival tools possible - but anyway) whether or not, the facts of this situation are, that the parents were perfectly fine with paying for the education of a straight child, but are not willing to pay for the education of a gay one - as punishment. Whatever the "moral" crap tossed around, that is the situation.

And yes in that circumstance the OP is for damn sure entitled to the same support his parents would give a straight son, so he needs to pragmatically deal until he gets that support, then all bets are off.

I fail to see where "legally," comes into it. The parents told him if he was gay he deserved less than they would NORMALLY AND INTENTIONALLY AND HAPPILY give a straight child.

Fuck that. Get the degree.

It's one thing to talk about hypothetical dignity and internet morality, but frankly, it would be stupid to climb up on a marble pedestal about this and fundamentally damage your own future prospects in what would amount to a pro forma show of ethics.

Yeah - I'd have NO problem living with myself.

After some deliberation I am tending toward this point of view; after working towards my degree for three years and having just one left, I feel like it would be very foolish to give this up just because it is inconceivable to my parents that someone who is gay can also live as a normal member of society.

This thread is too quickly becoming an "Us vs Them" kind of thing.

Let's take the gay out of it. In their own strange way, your parents are concerned for you in a way that they know. (Yes, it's distorted, but it is where they are coming from).

Do you know how your siblings feel about this topic? chances are they are more supportive. When the time comes to "come out", you may be better approaching them first. An ally won't hurt you.

It's difficult to say really. I have an older brother who is definitely closer to my mum's views in these things. While he's a bit more open-minded than her, he would probably try to convince me that by being gay I have many disadvantages in life and generally take her stance. My older sister has always been the one I've been closest to, and I've always pictured her to be the most understanding. She doesn't know or care too much about these issues but I'm quite sure that if I told her she would--after a period of confusion--agree that I should live the way that makes me happiest. Neither of my siblings know and my parent's negative reaction has made me hesitant to tell my sister about it, even though I've imagined her to be by far the most understanding one and right now at least, I don't feel ready for it.

I reread the original post and the OP is much kinder to his parents than anyone else here has been. He tries to understand where they are coming from even if he can't agree with them. He said he is also disgusted with the idea of lying to them for the next 3 years. The thread turned ugly and hostile toward the parents in post 10. The OP hasn't returned to say if he approves of such anger toward his parents.

I would agree that most people have taken a more hostile stand than I myself initially did, however it was nice to see the opinions of people who are taking different stands. I think it is always tremendously difficult to talk about family members in a way that doesn't seem inadequate in hindsight; nobody knows them as well as you do if you live together with them for 20+ years and all of your experiences in all those years form together a whole picture that cannot be accurately represented by telling a story about them in a few short paragraphs. They still are my parents and while I, strictly speaking, don't have to have them in my life, I would of course much prefer to have the connection somehow until later in my life, but I do think that right now they are acting irrationally and not in my best interest, even if that's what their intentions are. I have a summer ahead of me before I head back to college; I will have to see how the situation develops, but I'm sure they will ask me several times before I leave if I'm ready to make a change and cut those people loose from my life. The thought already makes me cringe because everything's seemed so normal the past few days, but I think rationally I will have no choice but to tell them whatever it takes for them to believe that I'm fit to return to school; I already know that I will be fit for it anyway, regardless of what they think.

 

[Rolyo85]

I didn't know you were a foreigner. So this presents a different aspect to the situation. I am in the same situation, but I plan on staying in the US after I graduate. What are your plans?

 

[bananagoof]

Let me just say that I really feel for you - it must have been really hard to listen to your parents say that, especially since they're essentially judging your friends and your lifestyle without really understanding it.

I think we all have those moments where we sit down with family and then hear something really ignorant and unexpected. Sometimes, you can talk about it and present a more informed opinion, and they'll listen...and other times, you can't. They just made up their minds a long time ago, based on experiences they had, or gossip they heard. The expression "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" comes to mind...

At the moment, you are held hostage. If you push them too hard or try to make them see that they are "wrong" or "misinformed" they will likely only get offended and push back. They are your parents, and they believe they're doing what's best for you and looking out for your interests. Telling them they're wrong, even in a gentle way, could potentially mess up this last year of school for you.

So, I'd suggest you avoid the subject. Be yourself, as much as you can, and focus on what's good about your relationship with your parents. How nice it is to spend time with them, go on vacation (or whatever else you guys do over the summer), and find a way to tell your close friends that you won't be in contact with them much in the next few months, but not to worry, and that you'll explain in the fall. Don't use your email or cell phone if you can avoid it. Write them a letter - your parents are less likely to trace that.

I don't think you should try and put on a show for them, or lie about how straight you are...just avoid the conflict. Once you're back in school, and have finished your degree, maybe you can introduce them to one of your friends without telling them that your friend is gay. I find, if you meet someone in person, you're less likely to judge them. In time, your parents may come to see that you're perfectly fine and can protect yourself. Their thinking is just too abstract right now because as you said, they've never met a normal gay man, with a partner or with a respectable life.

I don't think they want to ruin your education. They're threatening to stop paying to scare you into what they believe is the "right" lifestyle. In time, if you take good care of yourself, study hard, find a job and respect yourself, they'll discover that their homosexual son is none of the things they feared a gay man to be

This will take time, though, so hang in there! Try to remember that they're just not seeing the whole picture. Forgive them that, and eventually they might grow to understand.

They tipped their hand by threatening to not let you go back. That shows that they care more about their own fobias than about your future. That should tell you a LOT about those people and about how quickly you need to become independent from them.

I've seen and heard about a lot of threats from a lot of parents, over all kinds of stupid stuff. Parents have threatened to "disown" their child if they date someone of another race. Parents saying being gay is "a phase" and that their child is "confused" and can't bring their partner home to meet them. The bottom line is, when a parent feels their child is in danger, they will do ANYTHING. They can even get a little crazy, because they're scared.

From what's been written, I don't feel like these people are willing to destroy their relationship with their son. They're just reacting in-the-moment. It sounds like this is the first time the topic has ever come up, and so their reaction is probably over-blown.

I agree that you should find a way to be independent as soon as possible, but I don't think you should feel betrayed and angry and hurt by your parents. Cut them some slack - they sound scared to me. They sound like they don't know how to help you be safe, and that's why they're trying the "hurt you to help you" threat of not paying for school.

This isn't the worst possible situation ever, so try and keep a level head about things. They're your parents, and you love them and they love you right? Stay calm, get through the summer, and be gentle in explaining that your friends really aren't using you, or tricking you. Maybe share some stories about the nice things you've done with your gay friends, but don't go into the fact that they're gay. Your parents aren't seeing them as people. They're seeing them as threats to their baby (you!)

 

[TX-Beau]

No matter the motivations of your parents, you are entitled to your feelings about this, positive or negative. It is a betrayal, you have a right to react to that.

Where you go from there is up to you, but you have a perfect right to be shocked and angry, sad or what have you.

 

[Ganoderma]

hi Dephira,

Thanks for your extensive and sound answer and please excuse me that I was assuming that religion was playing a role.

Somehow, I get the idea that you are very well capable to handle this situation. I get the idea that you might be of a Chinese background (but no need to tell when you feel uncomfortable).

So your dad's biggest issue is that he is very worried about your health. I think you (or others) will have some ideas to educate him about these 'health issues'.

You told us:

I have a summer ahead of me before I head back to college; I will have to see how the situation develops, but I'm sure they will ask me several times before I leave if I'm ready to make a change and cut those people loose from my life.

You are already building up your own life and I tend to advise you that you don't bother too much about these ideas / vieuwpoints of your parents. So let them ask as much as possible, but try also find a way to give diplomatic replies (and don't let you promise that you will not have contact with your friends anymore).

OK. So you get in contact with a friendly and well-educated fellow-student (be it in your home country or in the US). According to your parents, you first need to find out (by asking?) if this fellow-student is a 100% straight guy. And you are, at least towards the opinion of your parents, only allowed to keep contact with him when he has given proof to you (how?) that he is 100% straight. I agree 100% with you that this is totally ridiculous.

I would like to wish you all the best. Don't bother having heavy arguments with your parents about this subject, but focus on getting a degree.

Feel free to react, or to contact me through a PM.

 

[Araigu]

I've read this whole thread, and I feel so identified with the OP. I'm living in a very similar situation. I'm 1yr and a half away from finishing college, so I've come a long way (3 years, and the first one or two were awful but I've fixed that now).

Anyway, my parents are really homophobic, especially my mother. I am dependent upon them to finish school, in a sense, because I live with them. Back here at Mexico it doesn't make sense to go off to college unless you don't live in a major city, and since I do, college is not far away from home. (Plus, most families back here don't earn enough money to do so)

So, I've been struggling to earn my degree and then leave home, but it's come with a price. I've neglected many aspects of my 'gay life'. I've got into trouble twice, as my mother has already confronted me with threats, blackmail and lots of misunderstanding about my sexuality (long story, but one of my ex's called home and told her what was going on, go figure). So I chose to go avoiding the issue as much as I can, I'm buying some time.

I've been harboring some guilt but I've kinda come to terms with it. I reckon no one's at fault, but it certainly won't make it easier if I have to drop out of college at this stage because my parents disowned me. So I've decided no to tell them and to get my degree and move on. I need to work on that and I need to get a real job because my current per-hour job won't pay the bills.

I must say your story sounds 'culturally' familiar to mine, hence, I might believe you come from a Latin American background, then again, it's a wild guess here.

Lastly, what I wanted to say, apart from sharing my story, is that you should keep doing what's best for your foreseeable future by earning the degree. The time to take stances and making decisions will come shortly after. Or that's how I see it, I have to hang in there just a bit, and I'll use all the help my parents are giving me, even if it's conditional. Because... after all, it's a two-way road

 

[Dephira]

An update on the situation: I had a talk again with my mum today, not that the situation progressed much. While I'm pretty sure that they will allow me to return this Fall for my last year, it seems like my mum is completely unwilling to take anything I'm trying to offer her; I tried to explain to her a couple of things about gay people (she still seems to be completely unaware or ignoring the fact that I am gay) and how it's not the cesspool she makes it out to be, but she insists that I am in a dangerous situation and completely disregards what I'm trying to tell her; she keeps saying that I have gotten into bad company (by which she means the gays) but whenever I ask her to specify she can't. Of course, because while I have partied at college I have never actually had anything bad happen to me and I've gotten good grades throughout. She just assumes that I'm with dangerous people for no reason and she is utterly dogmatic about it, won't allow me to say anything to change her opinion (even if her fears are unfounded) and she continues to insult gay people which is starting to get to me because she is insulting me as well with that.

She is generally treating me like a child (probably having to do with me being the youngest of my siblings) and strictly won't listen to anything I say, even if it is well founded. She also pretty much admitted to me that her and her dad had been spying on me; she said that "it's been a lot of trouble for us and cost us a lot of money" and that "nowadays, there are ways to watch over people even when they're far away". To me this amounts to her saying that they essentially had a suspicion and hired someone to spy on me (I have no idea if that's even legal). She even said that there never had been this kind of trouble with my siblings which to me is just completely outrageous because I never gave them any reason for suspicion (besides being absent during the weekends I spent with my bf, something that in my opinion falls under regular privacy for college students) and there was certainly never a reason that they needed to spend any money on spying on me; don't see how that's my fault at all and I got quite mad at her then, even though I kept it inside.

I want to wait over the next few days until I'm alone with my dad and talk to him about this. I really can't imagine him having the same opinion on all this as my mum, but even if he should, I already know that he will be infinitely more ready to talk about it rationally rather than treating me like a baby. He's always been a more caring parent and more willing to listen to us, and even though ultimately our mum decides everything, I think it will do me good just to have a normal talk about this because I'm slowly losing patience with my mother.

I didn't know you were a foreigner. So this presents a different aspect to the situation. I am in the same situation, but I plan on staying in the US after I graduate. What are your plans?

Ideally I would like to stay in the US after graduating, because I've been much happier there than I ever was at home - not just because of the additional freedoms of being a student but also the whole general atmosphere. It's slightly difficult for me to find options though. I'm allowed to stay for a year and work right now, so I figured I might look for a job for after I graduate, and if I find something, stay there for a year working and then apply for a Master's degree afterwards. If I get into a program I could renew my student visa and then ideally I'd love to go on to do a PhD afterwards. I'm not yet sure what I'd do afterwards but this could enable me to stay for another good couple of years at least. I have decided that I'm going to assume a worst-case scenario and look for ways through which I could finance these plans. I have a bit of money saved at home in my own accounts, not enough by any means but it would be a start even if I happen to be on my own at some point.

 

[Dephira]

hi Dephira,

So your dad's biggest issue is that he is very worried about your health. I think you (or others) will have some ideas to educate him about these 'health issues'.

My dad is very sensible; very much a "I'm worried about you, but you can talk to me about things, and as long as you're happy that's what really matters" kinda guy. He also knows that I'm very happy where I am right now, I've talked to him about that multiple times. It's impossible for me to tell right now how many concerns he really shares but I'm hoping he's having at least a little bit of influence on my mum in terms of convincing her that she's overreacting, but it's tough. Once she's formed an opinion, she'll never let go of it. I know that my dad would be very willing to listen to anything I have to say to him so I"m trying to catch him without my mum around.

OK. So you get in contact with a friendly and well-educated fellow-student (be it in your home country or in the US). According to your parents, you first need to find out (by asking?) if this fellow-student is a 100% straight guy. And you are, at least towards the opinion of your parents, only allowed to keep contact with him when he has given proof to you (how?) that he is 100% straight. I agree 100% with you that this is totally ridiculous.

To be fair that's not really how it is; my mum thinks it's okay for me to be in vague contact with gay people. For her, this includes waving at them when I pass them on the street. She has some very screwed up ideas though and she wants me to avoid them as much as possible while basically being courteous in public. In her view, I have been brainwashed by the gay people. I really don't know if I'm making much sense of her views but she has some screwed up opinions. Thank you for your responses in this thread.

I've read this whole thread, and I feel so identified with the OP. I'm living in a very similar situation. I'm 1yr and a half away from finishing college, so I've come a long way (3 years, and the first one or two were awful but I've fixed that now).

Anyway, my parents are really homophobic, especially my mother. I am dependent upon them to finish school, in a sense, because I live with them. Back here at Mexico it doesn't make sense to go off to college unless you don't live in a major city, and since I do, college is not far away from home. (Plus, most families back here don't earn enough money to do so)

So, I've been struggling to earn my degree and then leave home, but it's come with a price. I've neglected many aspects of my 'gay life'. I've got into trouble twice, as my mother has already confronted me with threats, blackmail and lots of misunderstanding about my sexuality (long story, but one of my ex's called home and told her what was going on, go figure). So I chose to go avoiding the issue as much as I can, I'm buying some time.

I've been harboring some guilt but I've kinda come to terms with it. I reckon no one's at fault, but it certainly won't make it easier if I have to drop out of college at this stage because my parents disowned me. So I've decided no to tell them and to get my degree and move on. I need to work on that and I need to get a real job because my current per-hour job won't pay the bills.

I must say your story sounds 'culturally' familiar to mine, hence, I might believe you come from a Latin American background, then again, it's a wild guess here.

Lastly, what I wanted to say, apart from sharing my story, is that you should keep doing what's best for your foreseeable future by earning the degree. The time to take stances and making decisions will come shortly after. Or that's how I see it, I have to hang in there just a bit, and I'll use all the help my parents are giving me, even if it's conditional. Because... after all, it's a two-way road

I'm glad to see that you identified with my story. Maybe you can even find some things here that might help you as well; it's sort of a fucked up situation and I can imagine how you feel. I'm not actually from Latin America, even though I adore anything to do with it and hispanic cultures. Thanks for sharing your story and feel free to pm me anytime if you want

 

[datnjboynva]

I have always stated that parents have the inescapable duty to take care of their children and support them. That includes not only the financial side, but also emotionally. What they are doing right now is projecting their own bigotry on you instead of seeing you and trusting you. That's their problem, and it's also a failure on their part as parents.

You owe them NOTHING in this regard. You are who you are, and if they think it's wrong, frankly, they can go jump off a cliff for all you should care. Lie to them with an open honest face, finish your degree, and in the mean time hunt for jobs. They tipped their hand by threatening to not let you go back. That shows that they care more about their own fobias than about your future. That should tell you a LOT about those people and about how quickly you need to become independent from them.

I have zero sympathy for them in this situation. There is no guilt in protecting yourself. You owe it to yourself to make something of your life, and you will never achieve that if you are dragged back by ignorant parents or your guilt for lying to them.


As for the whole educating them thing - it will not work until you are free of them. Obviously they have no respect for you as an equal, so why should they care about anything you say on the subject? You're OBVIOUSLY weak and impressionable, and the evil gays have corrupted you. The only way you will teach them anything is by getting away and building a great life for yourself. If they want to be part of it, they're welcome. If not, well, like I said - their failure, not yours.

I couldn't agree with you more. However, I am debating with myself as to whether or not I would even allow them to pay for the rest of my education. "To thine own self be true." That said, The challenge will be dealing with the consequence after you make your decision. Trust me, life will through MANY more challenges at you. You are a man. make a decision and go with it. You will have their respect in the end for your decision making ability.