Tax hike proposal graph, comparison by party

[BostonPirate]

this is what the parties are proposing at this time in regards to the bill that will replace the bush tax cuts bill due to expire.

I think that they are both too much personally, but I get that the politics of the election time are going to hinder such a thing as going back to the tax levels that were bringing prosperity to the nation under Clinton.

The alarming thing to notice is that the republicans are still insisting on givi9ng HUGE tax breaks to the wealthy in spite of the economic reality that revenue is desperately needed.

 

[rareboy]

I suppose the Republicans think that it will be an incentive for everyone in the US to make over $1 mil a year.

 

[laikaNYC]

It's actually an incentive for business owners who employ people.

 

[torontoboy92]

Why are we even considering tax cuts? Like, fuck, I don't know if even half of the dems or the reps have seen the deficient. We are in debt by $13.3 THIRTEEN POINT THREE TRILLION DOLLARS. The LAST thing we need is tax cuts, but rather raise taxes and cut spending. We need to get this thing back on track, stat!

 

[BostonPirate]

Why are we even considering tax cuts? Like, fuck, I don't know if even half of the dems or the reps have seen the deficient. We are in debt by $13.3 THIRTEEN POINT THREE TRILLION DOLLARS. The LAST thing we need is tax cuts, but rather raise taxes and cut spending. We need to get this thing back on track, stat!

ten years ago, the republicans passed the tax cuts you see above on the right. THis was done, supposedly to give people back the money they had been overcharged during the clinton years that caused the surplus... yeah I know it sounds dumb. We had finally reached the point that we were paying on the national debt, and Bush decided that was unfair to the wealthy, so the repubs came up with the cut you see above on the right.

the dems blocked the move with a filibuster, and the republicans closed the deal with the procedural process called reconciliation. now.. reconciliation only lasts ten years, so the bush tax cuts are all going to expire in just a few months.

The republicans are saying that the dems are raising taxes if they just let the tax cuts expire, which is standard twisted republican logic, and that has become a political football.

So the dems are going to let the thing expire and replace it with a more modest version that will more fairly distribute the tax cuts amongst all the levels of income. this is the left collumn up above.

now... heres the deal... if the republicans block the new tax model on the left, then all of the cuts you see above which are currently in effect will go away completely. economists think the whole mess needs to just die a quick death and we should go back to the clinton levels.

the Obama admin and the dems in congress are going to replace the old bush model on the right up there with the new one on the left, instead of killing the cuts completely, as a compromise.

 

[JB3]

now... heres the deal... if the republicans block the new tax model on the left, then all of the cuts you see above which are currently in effect will go away completely. economists think the whole mess needs to just die a quick death and we should go back to the clinton levels.

the Obama admin and the dems in congress are going to replace the old bush model on the right up there with the new one on the left, instead of killing the cuts completely, as a compromise.

Some economists want the tax cuts repealed completely. The majority, though, think that the middle class cuts should be extended (at least temporarily), until the economy is fully recovered. Almost all want the top tier cuts to expire.

 

[chatolandia]

so you mean, we got into this economic mess while the tax cuts on the right were in effect?!

and these tax cuts are going to help the economy now, right?


hmm, interesting logic

 

[BostonPirate]

so you mean, we got into this economic mess while the tax cuts on the right were in effect?!

and these tax cuts are going to help the economy now, right?


hmm, interesting logic

thats the republican logic

the economists all are begging for the congress to just let them expire, but the political damage to the dems would be too great and so they are replacing them with the ones on the left

but yes... the cuts on the right are what devastated the economy in conjunction with other spending and deregulation.

 

[BostonPirate]

Some economists want the tax cuts repealed completely. The majority, though, think that the middle class cuts should be extended (at least temporarily), until the economy is fully recovered. Almost all want the top tier cuts to expire.

there is no way to poll economists in that way. you can't say majority of... you can only say which ones within which schools of thought. All of the most reputable and sucessfull economists are pushing for the complete death of the bush taxes.

It is a gamble, but the debt is so high that credit is locked up and unavailable for people to start new businesses.

that jobless recovery thingie?

 

[cityboy-stl]

It's actually an incentive for business owners who employ people.

Please explain what makes that happen. If businesses get a tax cut what makes them use it to employ people instead of keeping for their own big fat bonuses and salaries? They had plenty of tax cuts the past ten years and all they did was outsource and keep the cash in their own morbidly obese wallets. Republicans keep saying this but I see no history whatsoever of tax cuts increasing employment.

 

[BostonPirate]

Please explain what makes that happen. If businesses get a tax cut what makes them use it to employ people instead of keeping for their own big fat bonuses and salaries? They had plenty of tax cuts the past ten years and all they did was outsource and keep the cash in their own morbidly obese wallets. Republicans keep saying this but I see no history whatsoever of tax cuts increasing employment.

absolutely

this belief is political, not economic.

its like the republicans saying that there is no such thing as global warming. they are imposing a political will on a quantifiable science.

 

[MoltenRock III]

Republicans are just liars. They act aghast over the deficit they created, after being handed a surplus by Clinton. And then they refuse to acknowledge that tax cuts for the top 1% or 2% is going to add to the deficit. They talk out of both sides of their mouths, and are utter frauds.

Republican's mantra is; "Government is inept, incompetent, and corrupt. Elect us and we'll prove that."

 

[JB3]

so you mean, we got into this economic mess while the tax cuts on the right were in effect?!

and these tax cuts are going to help the economy now, right?


hmm, interesting logic

Well, if you were to raise taxes in the middle of the recovery, it could be disastrous, especially so if they're on the middle class. By allowing the tax rate to go up, people have less money in their checks each week, which means they're going to spend less. That in turn causes sales and revenue, and it creates a ripple effect throughout the entire economy.

Letting them expire on the rich doesn't make much difference, because they make too much for it to matter.

 

[JB3]

there is no way to poll economists in that way. you can't say majority of... you can only say which ones within which schools of thought. All of the most reputable and sucessfull economists are pushing for the complete death of the bush taxes.

It is a gamble, but the debt is so high that credit is locked up and unavailable for people to start new businesses.

that jobless recovery thingie?

You can say the majority because that's what most of them feel. Every major economist that has any sway whatsoever in government policy, and many that don't, are recommending the expiration of the top tier and the renewal of the bottom/middle tier. No reputable economist in their right mind would recommend the expiration of the middle class cuts right now because it would decimate the already tepid recovery.

 

[BostonPirate]

Well, if you were to raise taxes in the middle of the recovery, it could be disastrous, especially so if they're on the middle class. By allowing the tax rate to go up, people have less money in their checks each week, which means they're going to spend less. That in turn causes sales and revenue, and it creates a ripple effect throughout the entire economy.

Letting them expire on the rich doesn't make much difference, because they make too much for it to matter.

no.

what we learned from the checks that were sent out back in the bush days and the new tax cut that Obama did, that modest income increases or deacreases on the middle class that occur while the consumer confidence index is so low results in cash hoarding, not spending, and have no effect on credit in anyway.

 

[JB3]

no.

what we learned from the checks that were sent out back in the bush days and the new tax cut that Obama did, that modest income increases or deacreases on the middle class that occur while the consumer confidence index is so low results in cash hoarding, not spending, and have no effect on credit in anyway.

That doesn't have anything to do with anything I just said. The tax cuts are already in place. I said nothing about them getting more in their checks, and I even said so. If, all of a sudden, people start getting LESS in every paycheck, it will affect how they spend. In the midst of a recovery, as we are now, this could destroy any modest gains.

 

[BostonPirate]

You can say the majority because that's what most of them feel. Every major economist that has any sway whatsoever in government policy, and many that don't, are recommending the expiration of the top tier and the renewal of the bottom/middle tier. No reputable economist in their right mind would recommend the expiration of the middle class cuts right now because it would decimate the already tepid recovery.

I don't understand where this majority of economists stuff is coming from. Do you have a source that states that the economists of the nation were polled and came up with a reliable and simmilar solution?

major and reputable would be different... then we get to people like welsh, greenspan, geithner, stockman, all are for letting the taxes expire completely.

and as if that is not enough, there was a statement by 450 economists in 2003 that the bush tax cuts would in fact create the deficits and debts that we are experiencing...

The tax cut plan proposed by President Bush is not the answer to these problems. Regardless of how one views the specifics of the Bush plan, there is wide agreement that its purpose is a permanent change in the tax structure and not the creation of jobs and growth in the near-term. The permanent dividend tax cut, in particular, is not credible as a short-term stimulus. As tax reform, the dividend tax cut is misdirected in that it targets individuals rather than corporations, is overly complex, and could be, but is not, part of a revenue-neutral tax reform effort.

Passing these tax cuts will worsen the long-term budget outlook, adding to the nation’s projected chronic deficits. This fiscal deterioration will reduce the capacity of the government to finance Social Security and Medicare benefits as well as investments in schools, health, infrastructure, and basic research. Moreover, the proposed tax cuts will generate further inequalities in after-tax income.

450 economists signed onto that and ten of them were nobel laureates...

* George Akerlof, University of California – Berkeley
* Kenneth J. Arrow, Stanford University
* Lawrence R. Klein University of Pennsylvania
* Daniel L. McFadden University of California – Berkeley
* Franco Modigliani Massachusetts Institute of Technology
* Douglass C. North Washington University
* Paul A. Samuelson Massachusetts Institute of Technology
* William F. Sharpe Stanford University
* Robert M. Solow Massachusetts Institute of Technology
* Joseph Stiglitz Columbia University

http://www.epi.org/publications/entry/econ_stmt_2003/

 

[BostonPirate]

That doesn't have anything to do with anything I just said. The tax cuts are already in place. I said nothing about them getting more in their checks, and I even said so. If, all of a sudden, people start getting LESS in every paycheck, it will affect how they spend. In the midst of a recovery, as we are now, this could destroy any modest gains.

not for the people that live from paycheck to paycheck... they would only make about ten dollars less a week.

 

[MoltenRock III]

There's no new tax cut or tax hike. This is just the expiration of the Bush tax cuts as was planned. Trying to spin it as a tax cut or a tax hike is purely for political purpose.

Agreed. This is the exact law that Republicans passed. They did this for two reasons. The first was because they *gasp* used the reconciliation process to get it to pass because they couldn't get it to pass needing 60 votes. (Remember the apoplexy Republicans suffered from during the health care debate, while claiming it's never done? Precious.) The second was that it was a budget buster starting in 2011. We knew it back then. The Bush Depression has only worsened those numbers.

 

[JB3]

not for the people that live from paycheck to paycheck... they would only make about ten dollars less a week.

Have you ever lived paycheck to paycheck? That $10 can mean the difference between eating and not eating.