Teabagger: Too many blacks make C-Span BLACK-Span

[SoulSearcher]

I'm not wishing anything. I don't have to.

Death is inevitable.

I do believe that the younger generation are much more enlightened and have more progressive ideas fit for 2010 than the older generation. Much progress that could be made in the country are held back by the old guards who had long been accustomed to having things their way. Death is inevitable, but I think the sooner these bitter old men go to wherever they go, the better it is for gays, women, minorities, etc.

 

[NickCole]

come on guys

the 'old guys' today are the hippies, ww2 people are mostly passed

no way in hell is my generation more liberal then they were

imo - my generation 40yrs from now will be more conservative than the present day 'old people'

Exactly right.

My father, who's 81, was a long haired tie-dyed hippie who taught me how to make beaded jewelry, home-made beer, how to roll a joint, and how to fight for civil rights and gay rights and against corporate monstrosities like Monsanto. They won some fights and lost some, but they were liberals and fighters and made real social change. My father's still fighting for the causes he believes in, and no doubt will die doing it. We're losing people who really achieved great things as that generation dies off -- flawed people, to be sure, but Americans with stout hearts and a generous conscience.

 

[DeStzjl]

Woah the things we hear still today...if your racist well i got no love for you. I do not believe that the man's sole intention was to offend however he shouldn't make it out like all black people are rooting behind Obama and think he can't do wrong. If you ask me Do I think Bush was stupid.... Yes i do, he talks slower than photosynthesis and leaves huge pauses in his speeches where when writing them he most likely inserted the words ""wait for applause"" but that has nothing to do with a political view thats just my opinion. Saying that I'm not riding Obama's dick for every decision he makes. It's sad that there unfortunately are some individual's whom only voted for him because he was black but in more of a "pride" incident rather a racist one. Some people just wanted to see if a change like that could be made. As for the man who called i understand what he's sayin but shouldn't be so vague about it honestly thats the kind of statement people look for just to make a big ruckus over nothin


Sayin that ima black guy and i have no political choice i feel regardless who is in office america as a whole will never be satisfied with the standards and liberty of life....I digress

 

[NickCole]

You are seriously and severely deluded if you really believe that. The vast majority of senior citizens today disapprove of homosexuality and gay rights, and gay rights are civil rights.

Do you really honestly believe your average senior citizen today is a bandanna-wearing bead-jewelry-making hippie who fights for gay rights? I can't wait for the answer to this...

It's not a matter of what I believe.

The generations who came of age during that period, the 50s, 60s, 70s were the ones who took the chances and did the work that brought us civil rights and gay rights, not to mention protesting that brought the war in Viet Nam to a close and made abortion legal and safe, and fought the AIDS battle.

Some were hippies. Some were businessmen. Some were actors, hair stylists, brick layers, doctors, librarians -- you name it, they were there. The connecting thread was not their outfits or hair styles, "hippie" and "preppie" were side by side; what brought them together was fighting for principled reform.

It's mind boggling, the thought process that could actually believe "time" was responsible for winning those battles, and dismisses the courage and sacrifices and heavy lifting that actual human beings did.

 

[NickCole]

The Camelot era did not bring gay rights.

The Camelot era. That alone shows what your alleged knowledge is about. "The Camelot era" is marketing. Camelot didn't exist, it's a myth. I was alive then and we were not living in Camelot, we were being taught how to dive under our desks in the event of a nuclear attack. The era of the 50s, 60s 70s, when civil rights and gay rights were forged, did exist with real people doing real things and racking up real accomplishments. And today those real people are middled-aged to elderly.

This is why Obama can fool you. You believe in pretend and dismiss authenticity.

What happened was a few brave gay marchers started the gay rights movement.

Yes you love photo-ops. I get it.

But pivotal as that moment was, gay rights didn't happen because some angry gay men in the West Village in June 1969 shouted fuck off to a bunch of cops. It began in the 50s, continued through the 60s and 70s and 80s (if you or your boyfriend are covered on the other's health insurance through an employer, that's from gay rights fights in the 80s as a result of AIDS), and took millions of people and sustained efforts to become the gay rights movement, delivering to you a world that treats gays better than it treated them. "Them" being the middle-aged and elderly whose deaths you think will make this world a better place.

 

[palemale]

Jockboy and Lostlover, you guys know I'm more in tune with your thinking generally. But I agree with Nick on this. You've got to get off your anti-old people kick. No one is saying that the older generation as a whole is leading the fight for gay rights, or civil rights, or anything. Each generation becomes more liberal and tolerant of the rights of others. But the many people today who are old bare the scars of the fights that have brought toleration today.

I have been politically and socially active for a long time. I have and had friends and acquaintances who were involved in the civil rights movement, communist party, labor movement who suffered for their activism.

The real problem is that young people who are progressive and tolerant do not get out to vote or engage in any activism. They don't write letters to their elected officials, or show up at community meetings, or go to demonstrations. They are not organizing unions or forming community groups, or running for election to democratic party offices.

 

[NickCole]

Jockboy and Lostlover, you guys know I'm more in tune with your thinking generally. But I agree with Nick on this.

I'm glad you do, and I respect your life experience that leads you to agree with me, but I can't miss the opportunity to point out you agree with me when you've lived through what I defend.

Just a friendly thought.

Each generation becomes more liberal and tolerant of the rights of others.

That's not true.

I could make a full historical case for that, and am happy to, but maybe you'll know what I mean with two words and an initial. Alex B. Keaton.

And in our lifetime (or anyway mine) we've gone from a liberal time to a conservative time, at least in terms of who Democrats are. I mean, when a Democratic President constrains civil liberties, sells "health care reform" that's more like RomneyCare than anything liberals have talked about for years, signs an Executive Order restricting coverage for abortion, proposes a massive departure from the moratorium on off-shore drilling ... come on, this is not more liberal.

 

[bike10]

The Tea Bag Movement is the meetings of the Republican National Conventions of the past 50 years.

 

[SoulSearcher]

It's not a matter of what I believe.

The generations who came of age during that period, the 50s, 60s, 70s were the ones who took the chances and did the work that brought us civil rights and gay rights, not to mention protesting that brought the war in Viet Nam to a close and made abortion legal and safe, and fought the AIDS battle.

You make it sound like all the men at the time jumped on this bandwagon. What about the large segments who were opposed to this progress from day 1 and until today? When I say the country would be better once the earth is liberated from these men's presence, those are the ones I am talking about. Large segments were opposed to women's rights, blacks' rights, gay rights, etc., back then, and today. And America would be better as that generation of dinosaurs would die off.

It's mind boggling, the thought process that could actually believe "time" was responsible for winning those battles, and dismisses the courage and sacrifices and heavy lifting that actual human beings did.

Like I said above, time and those who chose to move with time has brought us a more open minded generation. Of course it was hard work and courage on the part of some men to bring civil rights, women's, gays and minorities' rights, but the legacy of those men who put all their might in opposing progress is still here as well. Just look at the present day political ideologies of the greater inhabitants of states that used to revel in the glory days of Jim Crow. Those are the ones whose disappearance from earth would make America closer to its stated ideals.

 

[palemale]

I'm glad you do, and I respect your life experience that leads you to agree with me, but I can't miss the opportunity to point out you agree with me when you've lived through what I defend.

Just a friendly thought.







That's not true.

I could make a full historical case for that, and am happy to, but maybe you'll know what I mean with two words and an initial. Alex B. Keaton.

And in our lifetime (or anyway mine) we've gone from a liberal time to a conservative time, at least in terms of who Democrats are. I mean, when a Democratic President constrains civil liberties, sells "health care reform" that's more like RomneyCare than anything liberals have talked about for years, signs an Executive Order restricting coverage for abortion, proposes a massive departure from the moratorium on off-shore drilling ... come on, this is not more liberal.

Nick, I agree with you when I think you are right.

When I said each generation is more "liberal and tolerant of the rights of others," I used the conjunctive "and" to mean each generation is both liberal concerning the rights of others and also tolerant of the rights of others. It would have been more grammatically correct to have said "liberal concerning and tolerant of," but haste does not always make one accurate. Yes, people became more conservative politically during the Reagan years, sort of. There were a number of Reagan Democrats in my working class Catholic family, but few of them voted for a Republican after him. And I don't think any of them voted for McCain.

I would amend what I said, however. Each generation is more liberal concerning and tolerant of the rights of others than the preceding generation. Also, each generation generally becomes more liberal concerning and tolerant of the rights of others as time goes by. If one looks at the 60 somethings, for example, that group today is more liberal and tolerant than the same group was 40 years ago. They may not believe in gay marriage, but most don't believe people gays and lesbians should be discriminated against in housing and employment, for example. They may not believe in affirmative action, but they also don't believe racial and ethnic minorities should suffer housing and employment discrimination. When I have the time, I'll try to find some cites to support my theory.

 

[Lostlover]

Jockboy and Lostlover, you guys know I'm more in tune with your thinking generally. But I agree with Nick on this. You've got to get off your anti-old people kick. No one is saying that the older generation as a whole is leading the fight for gay rights, or civil rights, or anything. Each generation becomes more liberal and tolerant of the rights of others. But the many people today who are old bare the scars of the fights that have brought toleration today.

I have been politically and socially active for a long time. I have and had friends and acquaintances who were involved in the civil rights movement, communist party, labor movement who suffered for their activism.

The real problem is that young people who are progressive and tolerant do not get out to vote or engage in any activism. They don't write letters to their elected officials, or show up at community meetings, or go to demonstrations. They are not organizing unions or forming community groups, or running for election to democratic party offices.

No one is saying all older people are prejudiced. My grandmother shows me this. But if there's a problem, you know who is usually behind it. And voting in the problem.

That's a fact. Saying I'm making blanketed statements covering entire groups is highly inaccurate and is a weak attempt to "counter" what I say.

I do want to say that I never understood the "the older people brought tolerance" argument... This isn't like having an alcoholic dad that tells his kids not to drink. Prejudiced older people don't teach their kids to be tolerant. That makes no sense.

"I hate gays but I want you to treat them as equals!" Nope. Not buying that. Take that BS somewhere else.

 

[JB3]

We started off as a nation of slavery and 3/5 humanity for African Americans.

Then another generation said no more, but female inferiority is ok.

Then another generation said female suffrage is ok, but segregation has to stay.

Then another generation said well segregation is bad, but gay bashing is ok.

That generation still lives today, while a new up and coming one has something else to say about it.

Very simplistic, and not at all accurate. You simplify it into 'this generation said this, and this one did that' when it is nowhere near as clear cut as that. You're of the mistaken (and quite disturbing) belief that the death of the older generation will somehow solve all of the problems in the world and remove any opposition to equal rights for gays. Of all people, you should know that no such thing will occur. In the end, what it comes down to, however, is you openly looking forward to the deaths of those human beings that you disagree with. Sort of sad, really, that its come to that for you.

 

[palemale]

Tolerance moves up for the most part, not down. The older generation generally becomes more tolerant because of the attitudes of their children and grandchildren. They have a gay child or grandchild, their children or grandchildren have friends who are a different race or ethnicity, or they even marry someone of a different race or ethnicity.

On some other issues, however, the younger generation is more conservative. They are more anti-union than the older generation. They tend to be more spoiled and self-absorbed, and thus are less likely to believe in collective action, and are often less supportive of social welfare programs. I've seen polls showing that the younger generation is less supportive of abortion rights than older people. Part of this is just experience. They have no concept that women died from botched abortions in huge numbers when it was illegal. The support of doctors who had to treat women who had botched abortions was pivotal in the fight to make abortion legal.

I'm amazed at the number of young people who believe the law actually protects them on the job in the absence of a union. They have no concept that, without a union contract, one's employer can fire them for any reason or no reason at all, as long as the discharge is not based on a discriminatory motive prohibited by the law.

 

[NickCole]

You make it sound like all the men at the time jumped on this bandwagon. What about the large segments who were opposed to this progress from day 1 and until today? When I say the country would be better once the earth is liberated from these men's presence, those are the ones I am talking about. Large segments were opposed to women's rights, blacks' rights, gay rights, etc., back then, and today. And America would be better as that generation of dinosaurs would die off.

Back then there were people who supported the institutions of bigotry and those who opposed and vigorously fought them. Today there are people who support the institutions of bigotry and those who don't (but few are vigorously fighting to actually repeal those institutions).

What you're outlining assumes "that generation of dinosaurs" are the last people on earth who will be opposed to gay rights. Look around. We have DADT, we have DOMA, neither has been repealed despite a young Dem President and a Dem majority in Congress that needs zero Republican votes to pass legislation. Are the Democratic majorities in the House and Senate controlled by old bigots? States across the country continue to pass referrendums that prohibit same sex marriage, and a lot of those voting for it are younger. The largest group that voted to deny marriage to gays in California were blacks, not elderly -- you waiting for them to die off too? Bigotry has been a part of human societies since the dawn of civilization -- and you think your generation is going to be the one that changes human nature, not by vigorous activism but when old folks die. Oh man. Sounds more like narcissistic grandosity than informed social analysis.

 

[opinterph]

So while it may not be PR, …

PR? ​

(paraphrased)

People who deny that I have a right to marry a man and who also support a war in which people have died should be in jail.

The people about whom you generalize apparently hold opinions that are disagreeable to you. Nonetheless, incarceration typically involves suspicion or conviction of committing a crime. On the basis of what crime do you consider these people should be jailed?

 

[NickCole]

Prejudiced older people don't teach their kids to be tolerant. That makes no sense.

"I hate gays but I want you to treat them as equals!" Nope. Not buying that. Take that BS somewhere else.

So how exactly do you think this younger generation came to be unbigoted?

 

[archive]

So how exactly do you think this younger generation came to be unbigoted?

thats a loaded question..... he is always speaking in absolutes...which never work...

granted ...more than likely some did tell their children this....while others just learned from their own experiences

 

[SoulSearcher]

The largest group that voted to deny marriage to gays in California were blacks, not elderly -- you waiting for them to die off too?

That is an oft repeated lie, blacks nowhere near formed the largest group that voted for Prop 8, look up what percentage of California voters are black.

 

[NickCole]

thats a loaded question.....

No, actually it's a logical question.

he is always speaking in absolutes...which never work...granted ...

And it's a logical question not because he speaks in absolutes but because human beings are not born with bigotry in place, we learn it. We may have a tribal instinct but specifically which groups to trust and which to hate, etc, comes from our parents, grandparents, caregivers we bond with and learn life lessons from.

more than likely some did tell their children this....while others just learned from their own experiences

LOL! There's that truthiness again. You have no basis whatsoever for concluding that "more than likely," and yet you state it as if you do. How about an informed conclusion rather than one you make up that you think sounds good?

 

[archive]

No, actually it's a logical question.





And it's a logical question not because he speaks in absolutes but because human beings are not born with bigotry in place, we learn it. We may have a tribal instinct but specifically which groups to trust and which to hate, etc, comes from our parents, grandparents, caregivers we bond with and learn life lessons from.





LOL! There's that truthiness again. You have no basis whatsoever for concluding that "more than likely," and yet you state it as if you do. How about an informed conclusion rather than one you make up that you think sounds good?

wow....just wow....someone agrees with you and you still go on the defensive and try to alienate people....

its funny because....

what do you want me to say...i know for a fact some parents taught their kids racism (or any other isms you can think of ) while others didnt...that would be a blatant mistep as i wasnt even born....yet we do know its true

do we know that some children (or adults) form their own opinions by interacting with a different ( as in nothing similar to themselves) group...yes we do...hell i know myself

seriously......your starting to sound bitter

and yes it was a loaded question...as you knew that any answer he gave would be wrong....